17 hours ago, 2P51 said:

Baloney. If you pick up a sil 8 object and drop it and then require your PCs to roll anything to squash someone under it that is ridiculous. If rules allow for Blast to automatically trigger in a confined space I find it a little silly that a Star Destroyer falling from the sky needs to make a roll to hit the ground....

Of course, but that ain't RAW, that's the GM applying reasonable interpretation. And when the GM does that, he gets to apply it both ways, and the RAW silliness is subject to his approval.

Now, as I've said, some of the RAW on Move still rubs me a little funny, and it mostly comes down to it having 4 strength upgrades. Grab all those and a FR 1 character suddenly says, " Yeah, I can always lift a rock, and 25% of the time I can lift a freighter. There's no middle ground." It hasn't come up for me, so I haven't had to address it, but if you just chop two of those out, it becomes, "Sometimes I can lift a rock, and sometimes a speederbike." I find that much easier to accept.

Which means you're altering a part of the RAW to improve game play which is exactly what I have been talking about, as opposed to claiming there is no problem as some have when this particular power and the same issue keeps being brought up by others on a regular basis in the forums.

25 minutes ago, The Grand Falloon said:

Of course, but that ain't RAW, that's the GM applying reasonable interpretation. And when the GM does that, he gets to apply it both ways, and the RAW silliness is subject to his approval.

Now, as I've said, some of the RAW on Move still rubs me a little funny, and it mostly comes down to it having 4 strength upgrades. Grab all those and a FR 1 character suddenly says, " Yeah, I can always lift a rock, and 25% of the time I can lift a freighter. There's no middle ground." It hasn't come up for me, so I haven't had to address it, but if you just chop two of those out, it becomes, "Sometimes I can lift a rock, and sometimes a speederbike." I find that much easier to accept.

What would you put in those slots in place of strength? Or what if you doubled and tripled the cost of the second 2 strength upgrades?

31 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

What would you put in those slots in place of strength? Or what if you doubled and tripled the cost of the second 2 strength upgrades?

You can just cut 'em right out. Force power trees don't need to be 4*5 like Spec trees.

It's important to note that I haven't done this, but I've considered doing it if necessary. To my mind, lifting massive objects should require raw Force Power, despite what the little green Muppet says. By cutting them out, you're requiring a FR to lift things.

On the other hand, if a character has bought heavily into Move, I think that even with a low FR, they should be able to lift and throw a lot of smaller objects. So I leave those Magnitude upgrades in place.

I think you missed my second option i think

52 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Which means you're altering a part of the RAW to improve game play which is exactly what I have been talking about, as opposed to claiming there is no problem as some have when this particular power and the same issue keeps being brought up by others on a regular basis in the forums.

My point is that the RAW doesn't make for massive auto-squish attacks without a crazy attack roll. That's up to GM Fiat, which should also be used to rein in the crazy. My beef with the Move RAW has less to do with hurling attacks, and more with the ability to lift the dang things in the first place.

56 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

What would you put in those slots in place of strength? Or what if you doubled and tripled the cost of the second 2 strength upgrades?

I replaced those slots with a more fleshed out push, which starts out as a tactical power, with strength upgrades later on allowing pips to be spent to increase damage.

However, I also replaced the basic power with a limit of, not Sil0, but Encumbrance 2. (I can hear the gasps of horror...) Enc2 is enough to retrieve your lightsaber and move small things as a distraction and make some mischief, and that's about all a youngling can be expected to do.

Doubling or tripling the XP costs wouldn't solve my basic issue, which is that it's not really possible in canon no matter how many pips you get. It would be a waste of a good slot for something more interesting.

38 minutes ago, whafrog said:

I replaced those slots with a more fleshed out push, which starts out as a tactical power, with strength upgrades later on allowing pips to be spent to increase damage.

However, I also replaced the basic power with a limit of, not Sil0, but Encumbrance 2. (I can hear the gasps of horror...) Enc2 is enough to retrieve your lightsaber and move small things as a distraction and make some mischief, and that's about all a youngling can be expected to do.

Doubling or tripling the XP costs wouldn't solve my basic issue, which is that it's not really possible in canon no matter how many pips you get. It would be a waste of a good slot for something more interesting.

Not everyone only uses canon sources. The game designers do need to be able to handle non canon stuff as well. And the stuff people really worry about is quite deep in the XP well. I have certainly never seen it be an issue in game. I was never able to focus that much.

Here is a house rule that I would implement if that's where I ended up:

"The control upgrade to remove things from secure mountings gains a 1 Force Pip cost to activate. Ships and vehicles under power are considered securely mounted"

Now that has the unfortunate side effect of making disarming an opponent harder which I personally think is unnecessary, so here is a slightly more complex version:

4 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Here is a house rule that I would implement if that's where I ended up:

"The control upgrade to remove things from secure mountings gains a 1 Force Pip cost to activate. Ships and vehicles under power are considered securely mounted"

Now that has the unfortunate side effect of making disarming an opponent harder which I personally think is unnecessary, so here is a slightly more complex version:

"Activating this Upgrade doubles the Force Pip cost of any Strength upgrades also activated. Ships and vehicles under power are considered securely mounted"

In this way disarming someone doesn't take any more Pips, but lifting bigger things up to Silhouette 4 such as ships under power or building pieces will cost an extra pip. Lifting the really big things from Silhouette 5-8 costs 2 extra.

so lifting a Silhouette 5 house beyond short range costs:

1(Base)+1(range)+2(strength)+2(secured)= 6 instead of the usual 4.

That's a far more challenging prospect before even considering the Discipline difficulty and narrative repercussions of moving an entire house with the Force.

It still doesn't solve the problem of 1 shoting a pc in the first round, but Dodge, Side Step, Sense, Defence, Bodyguard, Suppress and Protect all act to solve that problem.

It also greatly reduses available objects.

I would also add pilots of vehicles under power can resist with piloting.

24 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

It also greatly reduses available objects.

I would also add pilots of vehicles under power can resist with piloting.

That's basically raw if you ask me but sure, why not.

3 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

That's basically raw if you ask me but sure, why not.

Because if some is there to resists he always has the chance too. Grey box 283. the only arguable point would be that the force power is not targeting the character, but the vehicle instead, though that would be rules lawyering at it's worst. Piloting is a fine choice to resist force move.

Alas, by raw ships under power can always just move out of range and annihilate the force user from beyond his range, simply because range bands are larger than personal scale extreme and thus a single move maneuver negate anything a force user can do to a vehicle.