Hello all,

I was wondering if I was reading this correctly, but are there any difficulty dice added to the dice pool when using force power attacks? For instance is there a defense dice added to reduce or cancel the number of force points you scored on your effect?

It just seems kind of OP to pull the weapons out of 3 guys hands at Short range, and then hit them for 5 damage with the weapons with it for 55 experience?

Force Rating: 2, 20 experience (simply for reliability)
Range: x 2, 10 exp
Magnitude: x 2, 10 exp
Control Upgrade: x 2, 15 exp

Where are you getting Force Rating of 2 for 55xp?

I can't for the life of me figure out what that censored word is right before "the weapons out of 3 guys hands"...

For some reason they didn't like the word yank, the exp costs are broken down at the bottom.

Hello all,

I was wondering if I was reading this correctly, but are there any difficulty dice added to the dice pool when using force power attacks? For instance is there a defense dice added to reduce or cancel the number of force points you scored on your effect?

It just seems kind of OP to ****** the weapons out of 3 guys hands at Short range, and then hit them for 5 damage with the weapons with it for 55 experience?

Force Rating: 2, 20 experience (simply for reliability)

Range: x 2, 10 exp

Magnitude: x 2, 10 exp

Control Upgrade: x 2, 15 exp

OK

Force rating cannot be bought up with xp, only the force rating talent way down at the bottom of the tree can do that. So FR 2 costs 95 xp. Plus the cost of the spec, 30 xp minimum Then move costs 10 xp just to use it, plus your 10 magnitude, 10 for two range, 10 more for control to attack, and another 5 to yank outta hands.

So... The actual cost is 170 XP.

Then, that move is two actions, so unless you've got a talent that allows you use the force as a maneuver, that's two turns, and two rolls for force powers...requiring... 3 pips both times...and a successfully discipline check to hit.

So no, not really OP.

Move is a hot mess of a power which is about the nicest thing that can be said about it. The rules are all goofuss imo, and so open to interpretation it begs the question why even have rules that provide no firm guidance?

My read is that you only need 2 Force pips to execute what you are suggesting, but I do agree it would span two turns in order to both pull the weapons from people's hands, and then execute an attack against them all with them.

There is no way to cancel Force pips, however, the rules for the control upgrade to attack multiple targets does state when doing this the attack will use AutoFire and follow all the rules for ranged attacks. So I would have the range band of the attack set the base Difficulty for the Discipline check, it could also be modified by any Setback dice for Range defense, if they are individual targets AutoFire would add two more Difficulty dice, if the targets have any ranks of Adversary, or Dodge, I would add all that in as well. So the dice pool could be really stacked against the Force user which would relegate that move to only the very advanced and very powerful Force users as it should be.

Yeah my bad, does require only two pips at short range, I was activating the range upgrades.

Still, the force pips, the discipline check, and two turns, means a lot can go wrong for such a big xp investment.

Yeah my bad, does require only two pips at short range, I was activating the range upgrades.

Still, the force pips, the discipline check, and two turns, means a lot can go wrong for such a big xp investment.

Chance of generating 2+ pips:

25 % with one Force die

46.5 % with two Force dice

63.1 % with three Force dice

Citadel97501 - Yeah, the Force is powerful , it just ain't reliable.

Bear in mind you'll ALWAYS have at least two pips even if they are DS points.

Just one flip of a point from the team Destiny pool allows you to use as many DS points as you like.

(plus Strain)

Hi Maelora ! I thought it was 1:1 (dark:light) though? And you couldn't spend more than one DP per turn?

Don't forget the "seems so possible" rule called "On the Edge".

Don't forget the "seems so possible" rule called "On the Edge".

I'm not familiar with that one, Josep . Educate me?

It isn't 100% officialized yet but, in almost every Force character, on abilities, there is "talent" or special skill called "On the Edge" that seems that let exchange a DS pip for a LS one paying 1 Strain. Maybe this "ability" is an alternative for trained Force users that let them have some power source without spending Destiny Points.

This would be probably some kind of Force mechaninc but... it isn't confirmed yet.

Until the moment (not 100% sure) every Force NPC Adversary, has it in every book.

Cool, that's the thing that I was half-remembering from Maelora 's post - I'd never have matched it to the ability's name. Ta!

It isn't 100% officialized yet but, in almost every Force character, on abilities, there is "talent" or special skill called "On the Edge" that seems that let exchange a DS pip for a LS one paying 1 Strain. Maybe this "ability" is an alternative for trained Force users that let them have some power source without spending Destiny Points.

This would be probably some kind of Force mechaninc but... it isn't confirmed yet.

Until the moment (not 100% sure) every Force NPC Adversary, has it in every book.

To me this On the Edge talent (or whatever it is) sounds like something a character would gain when he began accumulating, for lack of a better term, Dark side points. Sort of a fringe benefit of flirting with the Dark side, meant to make it just a little bit easier to take one more step down the dark path... I guess we'll have to wait for F&D for details.

Given that there's no lasting negative effect (the Strain is recovered as usual, Desiny Points flip back and forth as used) I look at it as pushing against the current flow of the Force, rather than embracing the Darkside. Like when things are at their worst and the Darkside is preventing your powers from working you can still push through if your will is strong enough.

You can flip a DP and use DS for LS pips. It's suggested to be handled narratively by the GM and player in regards to regular use of the DS in this fashion. I would imagine F&D will address it in a more mechanical fashion since they have a whole book to devote to the Force.

The assumption is that the player is 'good' and this sort of thing is not the routine, if it is then the DS should creep into play in some fashion. I don't agree with gray, I think the Force is a representation of very clear philosophy on more or less the whole universe. There are no fence riding Force users at my table, you are committed one way or the other. Breeching that should carry consequence either way the user chooses, but it shouldn't just boil down to spend a few Strain and ignoring it otherwise.

The manner to impede the OPs original example again is through the Discipline check and its Difficulty.

I'll tell you that FR 2 is far from reliable. I've failed so many critical Force checks on my character that I finally caved and used the dark side one time, because it seemed like I'd worked everyone into a very dangerous hole, and was trying to salvage the situation, scared that I was going to get them killed.

Also, if your character is rushing to FR 2 and down the Move tree, they're going to be very one dimensional, with almost no skills to speak of, and no proficiency otherwise. Then, there's the fact that in the Edge setting, using the Force is going to attract a lot of unwanted, dangerous attention.

Oh, and for the attack, remember that the difficulty isn't set by the distance, but the silhouette of the object(s) you're Moving, so blasters would be 0, modified by the Auto-Fire rules to a base of 2 P, then add in Setbacks for defense or whatever, and upgrades for Adversary and the like.

I'll tell you that FR 2 is far from reliable. I've failed so many critical Force checks on my character that I finally caved and used the dark side one time, because it seemed like I'd worked everyone into a very dangerous hole, and was trying to salvage the situation, scared that I was going to get them killed.

Also, if your character is rushing to FR 2 and down the Move tree, they're going to be very one dimensional, with almost no skills to speak of, and no proficiency otherwise. Then, there's the fact that in the Edge setting, using the Force is going to attract a lot of unwanted, dangerous attention.

Oh, and for the attack, remember that the difficulty isn't set by the distance, but the silhouette of the object(s) you're Moving, so blasters would be 0, modified by the Auto-Fire rules to a base of 2 P, then add in Setbacks for defense or whatever, and upgrades for Adversary and the like.

Difficulty is set by the silhouette until you engage multiple targets and are using AutoFire. The rules then say "This attack then follows all the rules for ranged attacks, including ranged defense and aiming". I interpret "all the rules" to mean all the rules, in which case range bands then apply imo.

I'll tell you that FR 2 is far from reliable. I've failed so many critical Force checks on my character that I finally caved and used the dark side one time, because it seemed like I'd worked everyone into a very dangerous hole, and was trying to salvage the situation, scared that I was going to get them killed.

Also, if your character is rushing to FR 2 and down the Move tree, they're going to be very one dimensional, with almost no skills to speak of, and no proficiency otherwise. Then, there's the fact that in the Edge setting, using the Force is going to attract a lot of unwanted, dangerous attention.

Oh, and for the attack, remember that the difficulty isn't set by the distance, but the silhouette of the object(s) you're Moving, so blasters would be 0, modified by the Auto-Fire rules to a base of 2 P, then add in Setbacks for defense or whatever, and upgrades for Adversary and the like.

Difficulty is set by the silhouette until you engage multiple targets and are using AutoFire. The rules then say "This attack then follows all the rules for ranged attacks, including ranged defense and aiming". I interpret "all the rules" to mean all the rules, in which case range bands then apply imo.

Yeah, I wondered about that... but I think it means the parts about increased difficulty, not range bands. I mean, they're already spending like, 2-4 pips on the power check to hit at higher ranges. It hasn't come up in my game yet though, but I figured the thing about aiming and ranged defense was just something you always took into account.

I'll tell you that FR 2 is far from reliable. I've failed so many critical Force checks on my character that I finally caved and used the dark side one time, because it seemed like I'd worked everyone into a very dangerous hole, and was trying to salvage the situation, scared that I was going to get them killed.

Also, if your character is rushing to FR 2 and down the Move tree, they're going to be very one dimensional, with almost no skills to speak of, and no proficiency otherwise. Then, there's the fact that in the Edge setting, using the Force is going to attract a lot of unwanted, dangerous attention.

Oh, and for the attack, remember that the difficulty isn't set by the distance, but the silhouette of the object(s) you're Moving, so blasters would be 0, modified by the Auto-Fire rules to a base of 2 P, then add in Setbacks for defense or whatever, and upgrades for Adversary and the like.

Difficulty is set by the silhouette until you engage multiple targets and are using AutoFire. The rules then say "This attack then follows all the rules for ranged attacks, including ranged defense and aiming". I interpret "all the rules" to mean all the rules, in which case range bands then apply imo.

Yeah, I wondered about that... but I think it means the parts about increased difficulty, not range bands. I mean, they're already spending like, 2-4 pips on the power check to hit at higher ranges. It hasn't come up in my game yet though, but I figured the thing about aiming and ranged defense was just something you always took into account.

Except not using range bands means not using "all the rules." To each their own I say, but I find nothing ambiguous or vague about the phrase "all the rules".

Hello Everyone.

Sorry to raise this thread from the dead, but I figured it's better than making the 7912935132534th Force Power Move thread. And this one seems the most pertinent to my questions.

There is a probable point of contention between my Game Master and another Player that may or may not come up.

The Book always refers to Objects in its descriptions of the the Move Power.

Can one hurl a person or any other living being for that matter? Let's say a Krayt Dragon?

We may or may not be engaging a Krayt Dragon in the next Session. And my GM is worried about Power Creep and Force Abilities ruining the game.

We had a thrilling session of survival after being stranded in a jungle of a Legacy Planet, and being on the surface happens to be illegal.

Anyway we found a cave with a Krayt Dragon.

I broke down for him what would be required to "throw" the Dragon. Player in question has a force rating of 2 and 2 Strengh Upgrades as well as one Range Upgrade and 2 Control Upgrades.

The Dragon being Silhouette 4 he would require 3 Force Points with two dice while standing at short range to throw him in the first place.

As part of that he would also need to roll Discipline versus Silhouette 4, meaning difficulty 4, plus 3 Ranks of Adversary -> 3Red 1Purple. (Plus any other modifiers that may or may not apply.)

So in itself the check is already pretty rediculous.

BUT. Say he beats all the odds, the Dragon then just ate 40 points Damage in a single turn, wich he can take 2 of at best.

Unlikely, but possible. The inverse likeliness is of course, that the Dragon just one-shots the PCs one at a time.

Really depends on how initiative and other things in the encounter unravel themselves. Assuming we even engage that thing.

I can certainly see why that would make him uneasy since that would be pretty anit-climatic since a Krayt Dragon is not supposed to be something to just smush in a drive by.

Subsequently he is worried that basically all challenges henceforth will become obsolete since the party will be mostly getting even stronger.

*edit*

whoops.

Any opinions or input would be most welcome of course.

I nuked Move. It's OP.

With regards to moving a krayt dragon you woild need enough pips to activate the strength upgrades for the silhouette, but IMO a Krayt Dragon would also count as a major NPC meaning an opposed check would also be called on to move them.

As for being broken , id say its about on par with an autofire heavy.

42 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

I nuked Move. It's OP.

As in, you just don't use it in your game at all?