Maybe I'm coming at it from a different angle because we use light side= law (discipline, order, restraint) and dark-side = chaos (passion, emotion, 'anger is an energy'). So the rules we see in EoE (flip a destiny to use DS pips) are simple and work fine for us.

However, I still wanted to reflect the SW universe which was heavy on 'karma', and that bad stuff comes around to bite you in the end. Any group can play what they want, but it just doesn't feel like SW to me if the Pcs are 'murder hobos'. Han Solo and Boba Fett didn't just murder innocent people for fun. I like EoE being about shades of grey, but not casual murder.

To be honest, I don't think a game mechanic is what's needed here. Sounds like the GM should talk to the players about what's expected of the game and when they are going too far.

The Force Power usage of DPs is a little karmic. As you use them to push through your powers the GM has more ammunition to use against you.

I'm wondering if a non-Force related mechanic could (or perhaps should) be employed. Like if you suffer, sacrifice or risk something for selfless reasons, GM flips a Dark DP to Light. If you murder (murder, not kill), betray or otherwise act the blackguard, GM flips a Light DP to Dark.

[This wouldn't actually work in my group - our regular GM makes all kinds of false assumptions as to why we do what we do.]

Even back in my early days of D&D I was never one to ride my players making sure they played their alignment. I like the simplicity of Destiny Points. I've only had one player with any Force sensitivity. If he was becoming a murder-hobo or using Dark pips too much I always had the option of using DPs against him, but it never came up.

Then it sounds like he is playing the wrong kind of character because he isn't going to be able to be all light side of the Force, and hang out with people that engage in black hearted deeds without negative consequences.

Actually.....the other characters in the group are fringers and might be possibly considered criminals by some but it has been his character only that has explicitly murdered an NPC and didn't need to...twice now.

The issue is that the rest of the group ARE villains for the most part and he is a force user so unless he wants to be a dark side force user...

Just curious, it doesn't sound like you're the GM, so are you asking on behalf of the GM? Is it the GM who is frustrated, or are you the one non-murder-hobo player amongst a group of murder-hobos? If the GM isn't willing to enforce anything now, then I'd expect little to change no matter what mechanic you want to introduce.

To be clear....I am the GM for most of the games we play in my group. I talked this over with the GM and he wants to do something about it but was at a loss because there is no official mechanic for it yet.

Then it sounds like he is playing the wrong kind of character because he isn't going to be able to be all light side of the Force, and hang out with people that engage in black hearted deeds without negative consequences.

Actually.....the other characters in the group are fringers and might be possibly considered criminals by some but it has been his character only that has explicitly murdered an NPC and didn't need to...twice now.

Then he is definitely walking the dark path imo. If he actually fancies being light side he should be made to suffer consequences. I like the approach of kaosoe where he starts getting turned away for training and not being able to advance his Force skills until he both atones and cleans up his act. If he wants to be a dark sider no biggy, carry on.

A lot of good stuff already posted so I will just add some musings...

I try to avoid an order v chaos philosophy. For all the rules Jedi had by the time the prequels got made, in general diversity and benevolent fun and funkiness is portrayed as "good" and rigid total-control was portrayed as "bad".

(In fact... self-control needs aside... it could be argued that the biggest flaw we see in the Jedi is their over-reliance on their own dogma)

Also, a question, is there any actual canonical use of the term "light side"? I can't recall it any the films and I have not seen all that much of The Clone Wars, yet.

Despite it's common usage, I have opted as a GM to avoid that phrase altogether. There is only "The Force", but it has a dark side.

For my purposes in EotE (and this will likely see adjutsment for AoR and F&D*) proper use of the Force is a mostly matter of being responsible and benevolent (as distinct from "good" or even "nice") with your connection to the power whereas the dark side of that power is thinking or acting as if that power sets you above your fellows. When the Jedi are discussed, I portray the best of them as servents of the various peoples of the Galaxy and the worst of them as over-bearing "Big-Brothers" pushing their will on people "for their own good".

In terms of RP, it is often the difference between "stand back and let me (the Jedi) handle this" and "the Force is my ally and I will see it's will done". Of course the stakes could be much higher and the situations more dramatic.

So far, our only Force-Sensative means to portray a "good" person doing what he can to survive. I haven't needed a darkside mechanic beyond the destiny points, but I have been keeping a journal so that when we know more I can discuss possible retro-active adjustments.

* In an attempt to keep in theme, I portray Force Sensitivity as a sort of obligation (common usage, not the game mechanic) to help your fellows, at best and at least not be a super-powered jerk. When I get AoR I want to see how that philosophy can be spun into a more duty-bound aspect. Naturally, I am eager to see what F&D does.

I've been tossing this around in my head and decided it's pointless I think the idea of having a mechanic is nifty, because veering to the dark side is so iconic there must be a way to capture that. But I'm not sure any mechanic really does it justice, certainly not point-counting. It's pretty clear the Force doesn't keep a tally, it is only concerned with Fall and Redemption.

First, there is the danger that a mechanic that is too overbearing takes away player decision-making.

Second (and worse), players who want to get away with acting like Sith in the game, but also want to pretend to themselves that they are the icons of good and justice, will just dance at the edge of whatever mechanical system is invented, doing only as much "good" as required to keep from falling into GM control or experiencing game penalties. This dancing, of course, is just as fully "Sith" as being a murder-hobo...more cynical and duplicitous.

So in the end it's up to the GM and player, and kaosoe already nailed it.

So far there are no rules for falling to the dark side. This is a BIG problem for us right now in our new campaign because we have a character who is a Force Sensitive Exile and runs around with a party of fringers that have been murdering and causing issues. As yet the GM has been scared to try to inflict any kind of mechanic of dark side transgressions since there is nothing yet out for that in the rules.

Do you have any recommendation?

This is too FUNN!! I'm the Force using on my way to the Dark side, Force Exile that is now feeling very Infamous. I am sure that when FaD comes out that I will be heading towards the dark side. I heard that they have great medical paid holidays, cookies and 3 flavors of Milk.. yummy come join me on the way to POWER!!! LMFAO

I've been thinking about it. The way I've figured is first, to give my players (only one's Force Sensitive though), a chance and the ability to make mistakes, the first dark side pip she uses per session is ignored. Every additional one adds to her tally. At the end of every session, she can make a Discipline check to reduce her tally (difficulty equal to the amount, if over 5 I'll use upgrades instead). Success reduces the amount (not sure if it should be by 1, or by the net successes), not really sure what to do with Advantages or Triumphs (maybe just keep track of them, advantage could add boosts to the next time she does the check, triumph upgrades? Or maybe Triumph should let you clear an extra amount?). No net success but no net failure will do nothing, each additional failure should either add 1 or the the number of failures. My thought is that this count has no particular effect... until a Despair comes up. Once a Despair comes up, she immediately gains a Dark Side Obligation equal to her count minus her Willpower and Discipline (even if that number is 0 or negative, though I don't count it for rolls if it's negative). From then on, doing dark side things raises her Obligation, basically by the amounts that others have already mentioned. She may buy the Obligation down to 0 like normal, but her Dark Side count must also be taken to 0 for her to remove the Obligation completely.

Yeah, I know it adds more book-keeping and rolling, but generally I like those kinds of things.

You could just wait a month and use whatever they're going to come up with in F&D and save yourself the bookkeeping.

Well, I don't know if I'll be able to make it to Gen Con, and even then I may pass on buying the beta.

Well, I don't know if I'll be able to make it to Gen Con, and even then I may pass on buying the beta.

Odds are there will be folks arguing about it in the F&D Beta forums, so you could probably just swing through and get the basics of how FFG proposes to handle such a thing (if they do at all).

Yeah, that's technically true... I do like the idea of using the Dark Side obligation, at least for now though.

As far as I'm aware the system has a solution to force users who show their ability regardless of if it is for good or evil. They call it Darth Vader.

For the time being I think the best way to handle it is to role play it out with the factions they have wronged. Think of the lady's man movie when all the husbands join up to get him, or in this case them. Have them arrested for their crimes and serve jail time. That could be an adventure itself, not to mention how they get out (jail break or someone outside bribes the right person and now the group owes them obligation). For the time being check pg 278 of core for very basic use of dark side and hold tight till f&d.