So far there are no rules for falling to the dark side. This is a BIG problem for us right now in our new campaign because we have a character who is a Force Sensitive Exile and runs around with a party of fringers that have been murdering and causing issues. As yet the GM has been scared to try to inflict any kind of mechanic of dark side transgressions since there is nothing yet out for that in the rules.

Do you have any recommendation?

Create a type of Obligation called Dark Side or something similar, and add to it every time a Force-using player does something that smacks of the Dark side. For using a Dark side point to fuel a Force power I'd give 1 Obligation, using the Force for personal gain could be 3 Obligation; acting on rage, hatred or other negative emotions could be 5 while murder, torture and seriously bad things could be 10. Keep tracking it like that, and when you get your hands on Force and Destiny you just convert it to whatever system FFG decides to go with. Odds are good it'll be something based on the D100 mechanic, so it shouldn't be too hard.

Any other ideas? I don't like the thought of it adding to Obligation and thus, affecting the entire party.

If the whole party are acting like a bunch of murderous mindless thugs why shouldn't they suffer consequences also? Typically when you go around butchering for kicks you tend to piss people off, and that sounds like a good reason to rack up Obligation regardless of the Force to me.

Otherwise I would say wait a month or so, F&D should be out by then and will address it I would think.

Any other ideas? I don't like the thought of it adding to Obligation and thus, affecting the entire party.

Well, shouldn't it affect the entire party? Maybe that would be an impetus for the other players to lend a hand reining in the murder hobo. If I ran around with Hell's Angels, I'd have to expect some police attention...

I would track it with some arbitrary way, like Willpower * Force Rating, with costs associated on the act.

Or, since that's tedious, I would just put a tick mark in the character notes and have it come up at some awesome, unexpected, inconvenient time. Maybe I'll even toss out some willpower checks if we need to put some dice on it.

The issue is that the rest of the group ARE villains for the most part and he is a force user so unless he wants to be a dark side force user...

Then it sounds like he is playing the wrong kind of character because he isn't going to be able to be all light side of the Force, and hang out with people that engage in black hearted deeds without negative consequences.

While I really can't say what might be coming in FaD, I do recall that Edge mentions that dabbling in the Dark Side isn't supposed to be a big deal for for F-SEx characters. I haven't checked to see if the same is in Age for the F-SEm. The idea being that the Force is supposed to be a minor aspect of such characters and that dabbling at that level isn't likely to be too dangerous.

I wouldn't do a thing about it. If he wants to play a bastard and he's having fun with that... fine? It doesn't sound like he's doing anything the rest of the crew aren't - he's just doing it with the Force. So he's a darksider - so far, that's a roleplaying issue in the FFG games, not a mechanical one.

If it were a character I was inclined to play, I'd roleplay hearing dark whispers, roleplay him feeling a surge of power and confidence whenever he proves his own strength.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

The character won't know about the Sith code, but they're on the path that inspired it.

The issue is that the rest of the group ARE villains for the most part and he is a force user so unless he wants to be a dark side force user...

Just curious, it doesn't sound like you're the GM, so are you asking on behalf of the GM? Is it the GM who is frustrated, or are you the one non-murder-hobo player amongst a group of murder-hobos? If the GM isn't willing to enforce anything now, then I'd expect little to change no matter what mechanic you want to introduce.

Honestly, given the primary focus of EOTE, I don't think there's a lot of benefit in having a mechanic/system to track a player's light side/dark side alignment. Because it's explicitly a game about the fringe/underworld/criminal elements of the GFFA, it's going to be be *impossible* for a player to navigate the setting and remain morally spotless in some cases and having a 'fall to the dark side' sword hanging over the player's head is effectively punishing her for behavior that does not have the same mechanical consequences for other members of the party. That's *mechanically* penalizing the player for playing the character she wants to play (which is different from enforcing consequences for player actions, which is how all of this should be handled by the GM).

Honestly, given the primary focus of EOTE, I don't think there's a lot of benefit in having a mechanic/system to track a player's light side/dark side alignment. Because it's explicitly a game about the fringe/underworld/criminal elements of the GFFA, it's going to be be *impossible* for a player to navigate the setting and remain morally spotless in some cases and having a 'fall to the dark side' sword hanging over the player's head is effectively punishing her for behavior that does not have the same mechanical consequences for other members of the party. That's *mechanically* penalizing the player for playing the character she wants to play (which is different from enforcing consequences for player actions, which is how all of this should be handled by the GM).

Following the light side shouldn't be easier and morally ambiguous. The path to the dark side is "quicker, easier, more seductive". Just because it's hard doesn't excuse people's behavior when using it. Imposing penalties for using it and not minding how it is used is called balance in game mechanics. If you don't impose penalties for how it is used then it isn't the Force anymore, it's mind powers in another setting, not Star Wars.

I'm experiencing a similar situation in my game and I think I am going to handle it through the story rather than through a game mechanic. I have two Force Sensitives in my game and one of them rolls exclusively black pips nearly every time. He has little compunction converting those to lightside pips.

Currently, He's being pursued by an inquisitor who wants to convert him to the dark side (something that the character as he is now is unwilling to do. Funny, huh?) and eventually, I plan on having him run into a Jedi-in-hiding or something like that, who will refuse to train him. There's more to it than that, but I've been thinking about it for some time.

I'm experiencing a similar situation in my game and I think I am going to handle it through the story rather than through a game mechanic. I have two Force Sensitives in my game and one of them roll nearly exclusively black pips every time. He has little compunction converting those to lightside pips. He's being pursued by an inquisitor who wants to convert him to the dark side (something that the character as he is now is unwilling to do. Funny, huh?)

Eventually, I plan on having him run into a Jedi-in-hiding or something like that, who will refuse to train him. There's more to it than that, but I've been thinking about it for some time.

I would imagine F&D will delve into the mechanics.

I think your narrative idea fits the bill for consequence perfectly, and at the end of the day is a great mechanical approach really.

"I won't teach you to wield that Lightsaber, you are falling to the dark side, turn back while you still have time."

That should get a player's attention when they've gotten their new shiney Lightsaber and they're told "no, you are not worthy", it should open their eyes.

I'm experiencing a similar situation in my game and I think I am going to handle it through the story rather than through a game mechanic. I have two Force Sensitives in my game and one of them roll nearly exclusively black pips every time. He has little compunction converting those to lightside pips. He's being pursued by an inquisitor who wants to convert him to the dark side (something that the character as he is now is unwilling to do. Funny, huh?)

Eventually, I plan on having him run into a Jedi-in-hiding or something like that, who will refuse to train him. There's more to it than that, but I've been thinking about it for some time.

I would imagine F&D will delve into the mechanics.

I think your narrative idea fits the bill for consequence perfectly, and at the end of the day is a great mechanical approach really.

"I won't teach you to wield that Lightsaber, you are falling to the dark side, turn back while you still have time."

That should get a player's attention when they've gotten their new shiney Lightsaber and they're told "no, you are not worthy", it should open their eyes.

Of curse, it might open their eyes to the idea that the Inquisitor that's been trying to recruit them might just be the more appropriate teacher...

Unless that's not how the GM wants to run it, in which case they are SOL.

Of curse, it might open their eyes to the idea that the Inquisitor that's been trying to recruit them might just be the more appropriate teacher...

That could happen, and I'm prepared to run with it, but I think I've got a good bead on my player and his character so I'm not too concerned.

I personally favour the obligation mechanic until we see what FaD has. Each black pip used could be 1 obligation, indicating the danger that the dark side represents. As for various Dark Side acts, I'd assign appropriately. Obligation is an excellent way of providing consequence to actions.

Even in Edge of the Empire, they may well be scum and villainy, but even scum and villains are well aware that there are consequences to ones actions. Usually for a criminal type, the cardinal rule is "don't get caught." Those who are reckless would certainly see their "Criminal" obligation go up for very similar actions. It gets high enough, they won't be able to go near a civilized system, or an uncivilized one for that matter. Obligation functions not only as something the players need to live down from pre-game backstory, but current actions. In the case of the force sensitive, their obligation would be Dark Side (either as Addiction, or a specially created one called "Dark Side"). For a non-force sensitive being a murder hobo? Increasing one's Criminal obligation is certainly well within the mandate. Sure, they can pay bribes, forge new documents to pay it down, but be too reckless? There's consequences.

One could argue that up to acertain point a tracking of light or dark side alignment should be hidden from the players. That way they can play their characters like they want them to be. If every action shows immediate adjustment of your dark side obligation ithink the seductive way the darkside pulls you isn t very good represented. Forceusers that are not meditating upon the force and reflect their own action might fall torwards the darkside eithout noticing at first. Later on when a certain focus on the dark side is accomplished it reveals it self to the character more obvious.

Anyway i would only track points for forcesensitives everyone else can do what they want.

Pendragon had a system that might work here. When a character uses the force in anger/hate or for personal gain, he gains a few "Lure of the Dark Side" points (5 or 10 maybe). Using the force selflessly reduces it a bit.

Whenever a character that's been tempted by the Dark Side is confronted with a situation where the player is angry, or hates his opponent, or fears for his attachments, the GM rolls a d100 against this value. If the die roll is lower, the character's anger/hatred takes over and the PC has to slaughter (or torture if that situation warrants) all his enemies. During this rage, the PC can use both light and dark side force points without penalty.

This will hopefully simulate Annakin's rage-slaughter of the sandpeople and Luke's sudden power when fighting Vader in RotJ.

A player that doesn't care about turning will think that it's cool that he gets to use dark side points without penalty (and will thus probably gain more points to his Lure). A player that doesn't want to go dark side will be appalled and should try to mend his ways.

If the situation changes, like Luke being asked to kill his father, the player can call for a Discipline check to snap out of it.

So, it a mechanical system that doesn't totally and suddenly turn a character evil but might make a character act more evil than the player would like for a scene.

So far there are no rules for falling to the dark side. This is a BIG problem for us right now in our new campaign because we have a character who is a Force Sensitive Exile and runs around with a party of fringers that have been murdering and causing issues. As yet the GM has been scared to try to inflict any kind of mechanic of dark side transgressions since there is nothing yet out for that in the rules.

Do you have any recommendation?

It sounds like you want to punish your players for not living up to what you think should happen in an Edge of the Empire game...

Pendragon had a system that might work here. When a character uses the force in anger/hate or for personal gain, he gains a few "Lure of the Dark Side" points (5 or 10 maybe). Using the force selflessly reduces it a bit.

Whenever a character that's been tempted by the Dark Side is confronted with a situation where the player is angry, or hates his opponent, or fears for his attachments, the GM rolls a d100 against this value. If the die roll is lower, the character's anger/hatred takes over and the PC has to slaughter (or torture if that situation warrants) all his enemies. During this rage, the PC can use both light and dark side force points without penalty.

This will hopefully simulate Annakin's rage-slaughter of the sandpeople and Luke's sudden power when fighting Vader in RotJ.

A player that doesn't care about turning will think that it's cool that he gets to use dark side points without penalty (and will thus probably gain more points to his Lure). A player that doesn't want to go dark side will be appalled and should try to mend his ways.

If the situation changes, like Luke being asked to kill his father, the player can call for a Discipline check to snap out of it.

So, it a mechanical system that doesn't totally and suddenly turn a character evil but might make a character act more evil than the player would like for a scene.

Feeling negative emotions doesn't lead to the Dark Side; it's only allowing those negative emotions to guide your decisions that's bad. Jedi feel emotions but learn to control them (through Discipline).

So far there are no rules for falling to the dark side. This is a BIG problem for us right now in our new campaign because we have a character who is a Force Sensitive Exile and runs around with a party of fringers that have been murdering and causing issues. As yet the GM has been scared to try to inflict any kind of mechanic of dark side transgressions since there is nothing yet out for that in the rules.

Do you have any recommendation?

It sounds like you want to punish your players for not living up to what you think should happen in an Edge of the Empire game...

Well I would direct you to the title the OP placed on the thread. It kind of gives an idea what sorts of input they were soliciting.

The OP asked for sanctions that seemed appropriate for a player that professes an interest in the light side of the Force, but associates with people, and/or engages themselves, in behavior that runs contrary to that. If someone is content with simply being a dark side user it seems to me there is no discussion here.

Feeling negative emotions doesn't lead to the Dark Side; it's only allowing those negative emotions to guide your decisions that's bad. Jedi feel emotions but learn to control them (through Discipline).

That is the thing I was trying to get across. If the character is routinely acting through his negative emotions then he will begin to lose control over his actions when confronted with situations dealing with negative emotions.