The scale really is a deal breaker for me when it comes to attack wing, a repaint won't fix that issue.

And as others have pointed out wizzkids arnt great at games I remember what they did to battletech with the dark ages crap.

This, a thousand times this. As a Battletech player, what Wizkids did was a killing blow to a franchise that needed soemthing amazing to keep it going.

Battletech is still going strong.

I am aware of that, I run a Merc unit for MWO and Battletech and try to play Mega Mek every weekend. What I was trying to say is that there was an opportunity to GROW the Battletech community and expose a entire new generation to it and instead we got a game where people would pay $65 for one VTOL on ebay cause it was so broken you could crush people and just like Attack Wing tourny exclusive prizes that were better than everything else. When I was deciding about attack wing I didn't even have to hear the second syllable of who was making it to know I wanted nothing to do with it.

Also the guys at Catalyst are doing an amazing job, I got to play a couple games with them at last years PAX Prime, super cool dudes!

The problem was the owners of fasa wanted to retire so just sold the rights on rather than get new management in.

I've been introducing friends to battletech and the new alpha strike game, also been trying to get them into mwo but as you know it's a steep learning curve.

X-wing was a much easier sell.

Personally, I've never really liked Battletech because there is a LOT of bookkeeping. Now, I don't mind bookkeeping. I love the FASA Star Trek game and Star Fleet Battles, and you'd be hard pressed to find a game with more bookkeeping than the latter. But Star Trek is supposed to be slow and ponderous, if The Wrath of Kahn is anything to go by. It was enjoyable to just sit down and have a nice relaxing game. SFB in particular was GREAT for doing things other than battling with starships. You had scientific systems on your ships that could be used to, in effect, play a solo RPG in the Star Trek universe. In fact, there was a whole chapter of solo battle missions you could do (I was fond of one that had you escorting a shuttle with a small gunboat while you shot down "ICBMs" that were targeting it).

Battletech though doesn't feel right to me when it comes to the light and medium mechs. It's not fast enough, and when you insert smaller or weaker "filler" units it can get really bogged down. I've participated in games that lasted several hours because all players used seven or eight units, sometimes ten or fifteen, and there were six or seven players. I'm probably not going to play it very much until they can streamline the rules, especially in regard to weapons and how they work (I hate BMX guns and missile racks, which you have to roll for every single missile or bullet...).

They already streamlined it in the new "Alpha Strike" ruleset it simplifies stuff a ton and speeds things up. Also check out Mega Mek its a Java run version of battletech so it does all of the book keeping for you.

While we are off track!!!! What does everyone think of the possible Robotech movie being made?

http://www.erectronics.com/2014/02/27/robotech-live-action-movie-is-real-fingers-crossed/

While we are off track!!!! What does everyone think of the possible Robotech movie being made?

http://www.erectronics.com/2014/02/27/robotech-live-action-movie-is-real-fingers-crossed/

You said robotech movie and I thought you were talking about the kickstarter for new animated stuff

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1381502542/robotech-academy?ref=users

As for the live action, I have a hard time believing it would be good. The core story is too big and too complex for a movie, they'll never be able to fit everything in in an enjoyable, coherent form. I'll go see it 6 times anyway of course.

Gotta say though, pretty much love his dream cast. I don't know all of them, but the ones I do really are exactly right.

Why not just make live action Macross?

Urgh I hate the attack wing model quality, yeah x-wing is expensive but you get the quality of the model I could not pay the same kind of money for those half arsed models.

And the scale is well off in attack wing, large ships may be a little small but all the fighters are to scale.

X-wing is expansive? That's news to me it's the 2nd cheapest game I've ever played.

http://www.tanksandtrolls.co.uk/Star%20Trek%20Attack%20Wing.htm

I think this proves with a complete repaint of every single ship Attack Wing can be made to look good. But I still can't stand that there is zero effort to even vaguely make ships feel in scale to each other That dinky little Enterprise killed my interest in the game as soon as I saw it. Having borrowed a fleet to try it out.... it just feels broken in so many ways. I hate the characters being on any **** ship, and so many broken combos from OP events. I just didn't enjoy the experience.

Did like the big planet obstacle, being able to chase a ship around it or use it to split a fleet was the one enjoyable bit of tactics I got to play with. Think a similar sized template of say a space station would be good in X-wing

That guy is a master class painter. Those ships look amazing.

I keep seeing Battletech come up in this thread. I grew up playing the FASA game. LOVED it. Havn't tried the Catalyst version so no opinion there, but there is a beta currently going for Mechwarrior Tactics, an online game, that I find thoroughly enjoyable.

As to Attack Wing vs X-Wing, I got into X-Wing when wave 3 was out, during the Great Y-Wing drought. I looked at both games very hard, and quite frankly, chose X-Wing because of the quality of the minis. I have not played AW, so I can't comment on that end of things. I simply have a limited amount of funds to dedicate to gaming, and X-Wing won.

I'm always down to go a round or two in MWO. You can hide behind my ECM equipped Atlas D-DC if you want, or scout for me so I can spam LRMs on one of my shiny new Clan mechs.

Urgh I hate the attack wing model quality, yeah x-wing is expensive but you get the quality of the model I could not pay the same kind of money for those half arsed models.

And the scale is well off in attack wing, large ships may be a little small but all the fighters are to scale.

X-wing is expansive? That's news to me it's the 2nd cheapest game I've ever played.

On a per model basis (for the amount of material you are getting), it is one of the most expensive.

On a "just wanna throw a quick 3-5 ship, tournament legal force togehter" basis, it is one of the cheapest.

As AverageBoss noted per model the game isn't cheap, but per squadron it is; amongst other miniature games.

People are very illogical when it comes to denoting what is expensive. They often fail to understand that it's subjective, and an honest comparison has to occur between similar products.

Never mind the community and the inane "faction pure" argument every other day. Really the game was meant to play faction pure when one faction (Federation) is the only one that will get a release in each wave, major factions (Klingon and Romulan) are pretty much done, and some minor factions will only ever get one release ever. How is faction pure suppose to work long term?

I guess according to Game Designer Andrew parks it was always a design choice to permit faction mixing. What nobody in the Attack Wing community seems to want to answer is, If there's a faction penalty why is it so low as to be insignificant? For the amount of extra points you shell out to make your primary attack Godly powerful you'd basically afford a secondary you'd never fire anyway for the sake of your primary weapon.

Had the faction penalty been 2 or even 3 points per card it would have invited more thought to list building for the game. Instead? A slap on the wrist afterthought. Why even bother?

Now I know the game has a lot of detractors here, but I'll say my peace anyways. I actually have a good deal of fun with Attack wing, as much as I do with X wing. They are different games aside from the movement system. The paint jobs are clearly better in X wing, but for those who re paint them anyways, I'd consider that difference negligible.

I wonder if most who detract from Attack wing have really played it much or simply poo poo the models and speak without time spent to have a more in depth opinion ? Not saying such to stir the pot, but I am curious. As for time I spent I mean more then a game or two, but actually played it for good while.

It is ok to like both, just like it is ok to love both the empire and rebellion ( Though the Empire is clearly the best )

No, I think the detractors here have legitimate concerns. Now and again threads of dissension pop up on board game geek about how the Borg are destroying the meta or this and that overpowered combo. I don't see them as often here for the X-Wing community. Maybe some discussion about how twin falcons are destroying stuff or questioning the power of the TIE Phantom (before it's been tested by the community). Over there, Borg are outright banned from some venues because of how broken they are. Even at their height I don't belive TIE Swarms were explicitly banned.

Urgh I hate the attack wing model quality, yeah x-wing is expensive but you get the quality of the model I could not pay the same kind of money for those half arsed models.

And the scale is well off in attack wing, large ships may be a little small but all the fighters are to scale.

X-wing is expansive? That's news to me it's the 2nd cheapest game I've ever played.

On a per model basis each ship is expensive I meant, given you could buy a swarm for £80 compared to a full 40k army costing you around £400 it's a bargain.

I'm even planning on a small rebel fleet.

XW and AW are two different facets of the same game system. Both are good games, however while XW is tournament ready as is, the same cannot obviously be said for AW. AW is better off played casually with friends where some common sense could be practiced.

My suggestions:

1. No faction mixing of upgrades or captains.

2. No mixing of TOS and TNG.

To anyone interested in the Star Wars vs Star Trek debate I'd like to direct you over to this site: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

They go REALLY in depth in their breakdown of the various ships and their relative power. The TLDR version is Star Trek ships are little more than annoying gnats.

I keep seeing Battletech come up in this thread. I grew up playing the FASA game. LOVED it. Havn't tried the Catalyst version so no opinion there, but there is a beta currently going for Mechwarrior Tactics, an online game, that I find thoroughly enjoyable.

As to Attack Wing vs X-Wing, I got into X-Wing when wave 3 was out, during the Great Y-Wing drought. I looked at both games very hard, and quite frankly, chose X-Wing because of the quality of the minis. I have not played AW, so I can't comment on that end of things. I simply have a limited amount of funds to dedicate to gaming, and X-Wing won.

It's not really a different version, more a continuation. However, the writing and art is worlds better than 20 years ago. For the record, I've been playing Battletech since 1987.

I agree that Attack Wing "fast-tracked" each "wave", and the ships that are, at this time. only available to those who played in the OP events. I'm sure that those ships will be available to the general public soon. Don't get me started on that "special" die that Wizkids released during one of the early OP events. I don't know the reason behind it -- "Oh, we're unable to hit anything with the normal dice. Let's ask Wizkids to produce a die with a "double hit" on a side, and call it the "Elite Attack Die."

I bought the Starter Set and a few Expansion Packs at Gen Con last year for the main reason that I am a fan of the FlightPath system thanks to X-wing, and to see if it might take off with my friends who happen to be Star Trek fans too. I like to say, I live in the galaxy far far away; but will visit the Federation from time to time.

In the end, Stay classy, Fantasy Flight.

No they wont be available any soon, have any of you play Clix? the LE , OP kits, etc. they are not normally available. Wizkids is doing the same for clix, releasing a new expansion every month or two months, its insane !! My wallet cant afford it. And im not only a player im a collector, sooo xwing wins!

And as a fan of ST it would totally wreck SW, I mean, ST have transporters, you just need to transport a bomb inside any star destroyer and thats it.

And ST can travel in time I think ST is more technologicaly more advance than SW

I agree that Attack Wing "fast-tracked" each "wave", and the ships that are, at this time. only available to those who played in the OP events. I'm sure that those ships will be available to the general public soon. Don't get me started on that "special" die that Wizkids released during one of the early OP events. I don't know the reason behind it -- "Oh, we're unable to hit anything with the normal dice. Let's ask Wizkids to produce a die with a "double hit" on a side, and call it the "Elite Attack Die."

I bought the Starter Set and a few Expansion Packs at Gen Con last year for the main reason that I am a fan of the FlightPath system thanks to X-wing, and to see if it might take off with my friends who happen to be Star Trek fans too. I like to say, I live in the galaxy far far away; but will visit the Federation from time to time.

In the end, Stay classy, Fantasy Flight.

No they wont be available any soon, have any of you play Clix? the LE , OP kits, etc. they are not normally available. Wizkids is doing the same for clix, releasing a new expansion every month or two months, its insane !! My wallet cant afford it. And im not only a player im a collector, sooo xwing wins!

And as a fan of ST it would totally wreck SW, I mean, ST have transporters, you just need to transport a bomb inside any star destroyer and thats it.

And ST can travel in time I think ST is more technologicaly more advance than SW

Star Wars still wins by virtue of far stronger offense and defense.

No, I think the detractors here have legitimate concerns. Now and again threads of dissension pop up on board game geek about how the Borg are destroying the meta or this and that overpowered combo. I don't see them as often here for the X-Wing community. Maybe some discussion about how twin falcons are destroying stuff or questioning the power of the TIE Phantom (before it's been tested by the community). Over there, Borg are outright banned from some venues because of how broken they are. Even at their height I don't belive TIE Swarms were explicitly banned.

Can you in full detail tell me the stats of the borg ships and any non stat ability they have? Also could you tell me how they are broken?

To anyone interested in the Star Wars vs Star Trek debate I'd like to direct you over to this site: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

They go REALLY in depth in their breakdown of the various ships and their relative power. The TLDR version is Star Trek ships are little more than annoying gnats.

They do halfassed job determing the capabilities of weapns on there site.

Brief summery to them a laser cannon = medium laser cannon = heavy laser cannon. This also doesnt take into account that there many diffrent models of diffrent types of laser.

The scale really is a deal breaker for me when it comes to attack wing, a repaint won't fix that issue.

And as others have pointed out wizzkids arnt great at games I remember what they did to battletech with the dark ages crap.

This, a thousand times this. As a Battletech player, what Wizkids did was a killing blow to a franchise that needed soemthing amazing to keep it going.

Battletech is still going strong.

I am aware of that, I run a Merc unit for MWO and Battletech and try to play Mega Mek every weekend. What I was trying to say is that there was an opportunity to GROW the Battletech community and expose a entire new generation to it and instead we got a game where people would pay $65 for one VTOL on ebay cause it was so broken you could crush people and just like Attack Wing tourny exclusive prizes that were better than everything else. When I was deciding about attack wing I didn't even have to hear the second syllable of who was making it to know I wanted nothing to do with it.

Also the guys at Catalyst are doing an amazing job, I got to play a couple games with them at last years PAX Prime, super cool dudes!

The problem was the owners of fasa wanted to retire so just sold the rights on rather than get new management in.

I've been introducing friends to battletech and the new alpha strike game, also been trying to get them into mwo but as you know it's a steep learning curve.

X-wing was a much easier sell.

Are you sure about FASA? FASA joined Microsoft made Mechassault games and helped make Halo 3 and 4.

The big thing that killed Attack Wing in my store was the Tactical Cube. Apparently it is really that bad? I've never played, so I cannot really comment, but that it didn't interest me much.

A quick perusal of the Attack Wing forums seems to indicate that it's the Sphere, rather than the Cube, that's causing trouble. That, and the ease with which you can roll 6+ attack and defence dice.

The big thing that killed Attack Wing in my store was the Tactical Cube. Apparently it is really that bad? I've never played, so I cannot really comment, but that it didn't interest me much.

The problem people are having with the Borg is they have 360 degree shots with 6 attack dice, and they move like a rook. but x-wing players have not liked the turrets. The thing is with both games the new thing comes out and allot of people over react before giving it a chance or changing their strategy.

I think the borg should be tough to beat but cost a few more points.

As to who would win Star Trek or Star Wars depends who is writing it

They put their heaviest attack on a ship with the best arc and best dial. It's only downside is it's lack of agility, which doesn't matter in a game where you are usually looking at 4+ Attack Die against 1 Agility anyway. Because they cost all ships based off the same every stat equals 2 points formula you get laughably unbalanced ships. They have the same dice as X-wing and value Attack and Agility the same, it's just plain silly.

Compare the Borg with the Jem Hader Battlecruiser. Similar stats (Highest Attack, 0 Agility, lots of HP) so costed the same, but the Jem Hader has a bad firing arc and one of the worst dials in the game. Borg have a 360 and can move in any direction they want as their ship has no true facing. How with that advantage do you cost those ships the same? You do so if you don't care about game balance.

Yeah, 6 attack base with 360 degree firing and unconventional movement. The most powerful attack on a ship that worries the least about maneuvers.

Also, Borg have a hull upgrade that eats criticals (criticals are banked below the card to a maximum of 6? before the upgrade is discarded). A card that catches the massive attack volley one would usually throw at this, cancels it, and throws half of it back.

Of course, also with cards that go and steal other upgrade cards from ships to assimilate them...

And they carry one of two 10 attack dice in the game (cutting beam, paired with Tractor beam).

Combined with no faction penalty and access to the best captains in the game, the Borg worry many players.