Except you are wrong. Nobody is forcing you. The problem comes from a forum which has only a battle reports, rules, organized play subforums, and the general. If more people are interested into competitive play (and in general, people who are more competitive, spend more time researching, that means, being more vocal about it on forums too) it is only logical you would see more posts about gameplay at the general forums, than hobby or fluffy game stuff (like scenarios, etc).

You are blaming the wrong people, and yes, you are bashing with competition bringing the worst out of people. I prefer to play one of your so called WAAC (that's so wh40k that makes me cringe like reading bell of lost souls) than a player whose intent is to just play, roll some dice and stuff.

Am i condescent to him ? Do i think in anyway less of him ? No, i just don't expect to have a fun game with him because we don't have fun the same way.

What do you expect from the forum ?

How about you relax and accept that everyone is different? I enjoy playing the game exactly the way I do, which is to win. That doesn't make my way any better or any worse than yours. So relax, and enjoy those HWKS at your kitchen table games. I'll be over here enjoying the brand new transport I won last weekend by "worrying 'bout" the meta.

You're such a wonderfully delightful person.

Really with Thunders about how the Meta types can get pretty overbearing. Hell this happens in -every- MMO I play.

"No you gotta' do it this way or you're doing it wrong."

:|

Really, I just don't see why it's so hard to crack open a can of coke, slap on a grin and fool around.

Just saying, if we all changed our thinking a little, maybe some of these newbie ideas wouldn't be so bad.

I have no problem with everybody participating in their own way. Want to play with bad ships, custom cards, or house rules? Knock yourself out. Want to talk about a theoretical third faction? Go for it. It's not my cup of tea, but that decision is ultimately in someone else's hands anyway. Do I start threads telling people that they should stop being noobs and get with the meta? Absolutely not. There's enough "git gud" and casual gamer hate on other message boards, I'm not about to bring that attitude here simply because I'm more competitive than some of the other posters. By the same token, I don't appreciate people pretending like they occupy some moral high ground simply because they don't care about winning as much as I do. So, why should I tolerate someone telling me that I should play the game their way when I have the courtesy to not do the same? I'm an adult. If I didn't like playing the game the way that I do, I wouldn't play it that way.

If someone has "newbie ideas," they should feel free to go ahead and put them out there. I might still be critical, but I'll try to be constructive about it. But please, don't tell me that I need to relax. I'm perfectly relaxed, and I'll stay that way as long people aren't trying to convince me that they're better than I am for enjoying the game in a different way.

We're all different. Period.

I came to the forums after winning AoIA, four strait games, after watching YouTube videos ... Little did I know it was the meta: Biggs Walks the Dogs. I just liked four ships. I wanted to win. I also had great fun. Now that we have new ships I want to learn more about the game so I at least am somewhat competitive. Do I expect to win again, hells no, but I want to use the knowledge here to improve my building skill, have a chance. So I ask questions of the forum members all around winning formations, combos, tools to help etc. Am I driving a Meta discussion, probably. But when push comes to shove and I play on Monday nights with my friends Im there to have fun... You just don't see that side of me in the posts.

I imagine that later statement applies to many.

Yup I smell like Old Spice 2 in 1 ;-p

You're such a wonderfully delightful person.

You may not worry much about the meta, but you seem awfully concerned with both my forum and gaming habits. Maybe it's time for you to indulge in that can of coke.

Me and my friends just play for fun and do 150 point games just so we can use more of our ships, I don't use net lists I just come up with my own combos and usually fly a new list each week, my friend uses rebels and uses modified net lists against me but I've only lost three games in the last seven months we've been playing.

One of the things that makes x-wing more fun than 40k which I've now completely given up on is that games are not won when you pick your list, good decision making and forward planing are what matters.

Sure some builds will always mathematically work out better but maths can't predict the whims of the dice gods, if they want you to lose your gonna lose.

Tell you what.

The Dice Gods are fickle sithspit, let me tell you.

We are playing a game with toys. Please don't tell me how serious the meta is.

*sniff*

I smell casuals.

I imagine it smells vaguely of Old Spice and adequate grooming.

Either way, yeah. Hrathen hit it on target.

Come in with a list nobody is expecting, and isn't "listed" in the meta, well. That should be interesting.

That's called meta-gaming and involves building a build that is effective against the current Meta. It requires vast knowledge of the Meta, and it takes discussion to get there.

The X-wing meta is much simpler than most people give it credit for.

Put a lot of firepower and durability on the table. Blow things up. covers most of it. You can talk about XXBB all you want, it boils down to that same principle. Hopefully the Phantom changes that and we get a varied and interesting metagame that I can't just throw five imperial ships on the table and dominate with.

FFG's cyclised the meta so pretty much every netdecked build can be counterbuilt. If you netdeck now you're asking to die.

FFG really doesn't like solid metagames where the winning squads are always the same two or three. That's less because they're the best but because people copy each other (and then lose to people who don't but still build well and more importantly play well). Paul Heaver may have flown XXBB but when he did XXBB wasn't a thing. It was unconventional, he knew how to fly it, and he came out on top.

The TIE phantom was built to kill X-wing's low PS meta and lo and behold it got accused of being OP. Netrunner's upcoming Lunar Cycle is built to drop a thousand megaton bomb on the Netrunner meta.

Knowing the meta is important to get a general feel of what you should encounter in tournaments. Knowing your enemy is as important as knowing yourself in battle. You can play whatever you want and will have good chances to win if you come prepared. I personally like to try something new and not follow list archetypes. But, I like to know what is considered good and not in general. That's why I come to this forum. I also like to make list that is not the best but follows a theme and ask how I could improve it.

And the best advises come from the meta-player because they have a better understanding than the casual player, they invest energy into this game, even if it's just some toys for grown-up. I would not post my list if all I wanted to hear is that it got style, or that it should be fun to play, or that maybe a touch of orange would fit more. If I post a list, I expect forum members to crunch it and make me regret I posted it in the first place.

And when I give advice to a new player, of course I'll make propositions to improve his list by taking that EPT instead of Expose because mathematically Expose is bad. Does it force him to do it, no. But if he comes here asking for advise, I won't tell him that he is right to take a HWK without a turret just because he felt like it. The community here is really nice and gives a lot of good advises. They are not forcing their playstyle to anyone, they are giving advises to new players about how to improve their game.

To the OP: Everyone can enjoy the game however they see fit. Telling others to chill just because they don't enjoy it like you do or take it more seriously than you is very condescending. Some people love the thrill of competition and improving their game, be it at work, in sport or in a tabletop game. If you are not that kind, it's fine. But don't put yourself on higher ground for it, because you are not. Especially not with this attitude.

For many players, meta, the game inside a game, is usually more interesting then the game itself.

Its where unique strategies and tactics are born and die. Doesn't mean you are trying to min/max the game.

And the best advises come from the meta-player because they have a better understanding than the casual player, they invest energy into this game, even if it's just some toys for grown-up.

From the tournament player, certainly. But a "meta-player"? That sounds like someone who chooses their list not on the merits of their ships but off of the tournament win rankings.

And the best advises come from the meta-player because they have a better understanding than the casual player, they invest energy into this game, even if it's just some toys for grown-up.

From the tournament player, certainly. But a "meta-player"? That sounds like someone who chooses their list not on the merits of their ships but off of the tournament win rankings.

The meta game is not just following the tournament win raking. It's a whole of different strategies made in place by the community by experiences. If a build or combinaison as been proven to be powerful and working, it enters the meta-game. It's not just following the herd, it's knowing why it got there. Give a Tie Swarm to an inexperienced player and he will get eaten alive in a tournament.

I discuss meta not so much because I want to dominate everyone else (as I mostly play for fun), but so that I don't play a build that just flat out loses because of the way it is built, such as by playing weaker ships or ships/cards that don't have any synergy. When I play, I want to make sure I have at least a decent chance of winning.

I discuss the meta cos it beats working. When I play though, I pick squads that I think will be fun though, winning doesn't really matter.

It's not just following the herd, it's knowing why it got there.

Problem is everyone following the herd for whatever reason results in very low squad variety. That's why I'm glad FFG's cyclised it with Wave 4 so that your scissor herd can be wiped out with a single rock.

Ahh, the eternal war of "tournament" players vs "casual" players. There is no "right" way to view the game, yet both sides will try to push their view as the only view. Enjoy the **** game, and don't let others dictate it for you.

It's not just following the herd, it's knowing why it got there.

Problem is everyone following the herd for whatever reason results in very low squad variety. That's why I'm glad FFG's cyclised it with Wave 4 so that your scissor herd can be wiped out with a single rock.

Luckily, we're not stuck in a game with One build to rule them all. There is variety and like you said, it will evolve with wave 4, bring new kinds of builds to counter those already present, just like it does everytime there is a new release. Some will be considered OP at first, until the community catch up with it and know how to counter them. The community will also learn what works best with what. The meta-game evolve.

Ahh, the eternal war of "tournament" players vs "casual" players. There is no "right" way to view the game, yet both sides will try to push their view as the only view. Enjoy the **** game, and don't let others dictate it for you.

We should be friends.

Ahh, the eternal war of "tournament" players vs "casual" players. There is no "right" way to view the game, yet both sides will try to push their view as the only view. Enjoy the **** game, and don't let others dictate it for you.

I don't see any tournament players pushing anything in this thread. Defending their right to have fun as they like is very different than telling others they should step in line.