Chillax, pick a list you think sounds good, and rely more on your ability to get your sights on your foe than what'cha got in your payload.

Then after that hope the force is with you on dice rolls.

But chiiiiiiiiil man. Chiiiiiil. There is no best ship. No best loadout. Lemme' pull out an example I know.

You got a plasma pistol, no health, and you got a tank coming after you. Use that piddleshot right and you can end up with that tank.

Catch my meaning?

Without discussions about the state of the game there is no forum. So no. I will continue to discuss and debate as a way to pass the time.

Looks to his left.....looks to his right....doesn't see anything on this forum that has to do with WH40K or a space marine....

This type of conversation is NOT meta anymore. Sorry man, playing comfortable was SOooo wave 1.

Looks to his left.....looks to his right....doesn't see anything on this forum that has to do with WH40K or a space marine....

Typical...always focusing on the space marines...

Talking about the metagame is fun, and a clear understanding of the metagame is essential for high-level play in any expansive game like X-Wing. There might not be a best ship or a best load out, but there are better ones than others.

I agree that meta is more a matter of what is popular right now, than what is good. But if you are going to play in a tournament then knowing what you are likely to see is an important consideration.

However I will point out if you just do what every one else does you will do just as well as everyone else. So IMO opinion the meta defines normal not good builds. If you want a good build you need to be playing differently.

When the Interceptors came out, people made the argument that they aren't that good and used the fact that they don't show up much in tournaments as their evidence. But now a year or two latter I see them all the time. If you watch the tournament wins you will see surprise list all the time. Often lists that you may have not ever heard of or considered. One of the strengths of these lists is how un-meta they are.

As for the OP initial analogy, couldn't have been a jedi and a lightsaber. Not really that much more powerful than a SM with his PP, but more thematic for this forum.

I discuss meta not so much because I want to dominate everyone else (as I mostly play for fun), but so that I don't play a build that just flat out loses because of the way it is built, such as by playing weaker ships or ships/cards that don't have any synergy. When I play, I want to make sure I have at least a decent chance of winning.

*sniff*

I smell casuals.

Looks to his left.....looks to his right....doesn't see anything on this forum that has to do with WH40K or a space marine....

*sniff*

I smell casuals.

I imagine it smells vaguely of Old Spice and adequate grooming.

Either way, yeah. Hrathen hit it on target.

Come in with a list nobody is expecting, and isn't "listed" in the meta, well. That should be interesting.

*sniff*

I smell casuals.

I imagine it smells vaguely of Old Spice and adequate grooming.

Either way, yeah. Hrathen hit it on target.

Come in with a list nobody is expecting, and isn't "listed" in the meta, well. That should be interesting.

The X-wing meta is much simpler than most people give it credit for.

Put a lot of firepower and durability on the table. Blow things up. covers most of it. You can talk about XXBB all you want, it boils down to that same principle. Hopefully the Phantom changes that and we get a varied and interesting metagame that I can't just throw five imperial ships on the table and dominate with.

*sniff*

I smell casuals.

I imagine it smells vaguely of Old Spice and adequate grooming.

Either way, yeah. Hrathen hit it on target.

Come in with a list nobody is expecting, and isn't "listed" in the meta, well. That should be interesting.

i half take offense to that

i play pretty competitively and play to win but outside this universe i'm a tradesman in the regular world, work 40-60 hours a week; i have a beautiful wife and i groom and bathe myself daily if not multiple times a day

don't let the nerd funk fool you into thinking only they are the only hardcores out there

also thankfully i have yet to run into stinky players in my local area.. we all seem to be upstanding citizens

Stuff was just released, so there might not even be a 'meta' until it gets settled.

*sniff*

I smell casuals.

I imagine it smells vaguely of Old Spice and adequate grooming.

Either way, yeah. Hrathen hit it on target.

Come in with a list nobody is expecting, and isn't "listed" in the meta, well. That should be interesting.

i half take offense to that

i play pretty competitively and play to win but outside this universe i'm a tradesman in the regular world, work 40-60 hours a week; i have a beautiful wife and i groom and bathe myself daily if not multiple times a day

don't let the nerd funk fool you into thinking only they are the only hardcores out there

also thankfully i have yet to run into stinky players in my local area.. we all seem to be upstanding citizens

Man chill, I was just playin'.

And hey, congratulations, good life dude.

However I will point out if you just do what every one else does you will do just as well as everyone else. So IMO opinion the meta defines normal not good builds. If you want a good build you need to be playing differently.

Heh, I think this turns this thread about not talking about the meta into a thread that invites us to talk about a general theory of the meta.

Excellent!

You're right that if you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got.

But, sometimes the conventional wisdom can be fairly wise. I don't think that there are all that many highly effective off-the-wall combinations that have not been discovered and become mainstream. Sure, with every new expansion or wave of expansions (such as what we just got) we think the whole game might be overturned, and then find out that it doesn't.

I think those people who think they can build the sooper-dooper build that will win them every game are quite deluded. The better a build does one thing, the less capable it will be at other things. That's the same 'efficiency-vs.-adaptability' trade-off that constrains everything in life..

If you know what you're going to be facing, you can build against it. Failing that, I think you're better off building something versatile.

I think what the original intent of this whole post is : "do we all have to be in tournament mode 24/7 ?

Many times I've come on here to read through a few threads and they end up in a flurry of posts, debates, about what

So and so would play, or that is not universally accepted wisdom in a tournament environment.

Now I get it. I really do. Sometimes we just want to get into some good old fashioned D!€K measuring, and the only way to

Provided the resolute outcome, is a good hard fought tournament.

But in the same vein of that thinking the casual man or woman who doesn't have much competitiveness in them, or who just

Like to fly casual can really have a hard time fitting in with the rest of the shark pool.

I often wonder why every game that seems to get popular, MUST! Absolutely have a tournament scene.

Sometimes it just sucks the whole fun out of everything.

Things aren't too bad here, everyone is really pretty civil, but I can't tell you the number of times I've been on other

Boards, and people have posted some kind of cool idea and asked for advice, only to get

Ripped to shreds, for not following conventional meta game wisdom.

Cause after all, how dare they play a "GAME"... AND HAVE FUN TOO !!??

That would just be absurd.

★★★before any one hits the reply button in a rage like frenzy★★★

You can preach to me all day about the merits of a good meta game, and how important a good tournament scene is.

But, at the end of the day, it is, what it is...."A Game" nothing is gonna change it.

Win, lose, or draw, you still gotta take care of the real things in life.... work, home, school, wife.

So what does it matter who wins, or whose the best.?

I think what the original intent of this whole post is : "do we all have to be in tournament mode 24/7 ?

Many times I've come on here to read through a few threads and they end up in a flurry of posts, debates, about what

So and so would play, or that is not universally accepted wisdom in a tournament environment.

Now I get it. I really do. Sometimes we just want to get into some good old fashioned D!€K measuring, and the only way to

Provided the resolute outcome, is a good hard fought tournament.

But in the same vein of that thinking the casual man or woman who doesn't have much competitiveness in them, or who just

Like to fly casual can really have a hard time fitting in with the rest of the shark pool.

I often wonder why every game that seems to get popular, MUST! Absolutely have a tournament scene.

Sometimes it just sucks the whole fun out of everything.

Things aren't too bad here, everyone is really pretty civil, but I can't tell you the number of times I've been on other

Boards, and people have posted some kind of cool idea and asked for advice, only to get

Ripped to shreds, for not following conventional meta game wisdom.

Cause after all, how dare they play a "GAME"... AND HAVE FUN TOO !!??

That would just be absurd.

★★★before any one hits the reply button in a rage like frenzy★★★

You can preach to me all day about the merits of a good meta game, and how important a good tournament scene is.

But, at the end of the day, it is, what it is...."A Game" nothing is gonna change it.

Win, lose, or draw, you still gotta take care of the real things in life.... work, home, school, wife.

So what does it matter who wins, or whose the best.?

You.

I like you.

So what does it matter who wins, or whose the best.?

Is there another reason to play games?

So what does it matter who wins, or whose the best.?

Is there another reason to play games?

Deleted: How else are you going to know that you're better than everyone else?

Yeah. Fun. Games are fun.

"Hey check out my new HWK."

"I heard it's dial sucks."

"We'll see."

>One game later.

"How'd you do that?"

"Synergy!"

"That was fun. We should play again. For fun. Fun."

2: Man if that's what you're concerned about then I feel kinda' bad for ya' bro. Having to always be better than everyone else must be extremely tiring and frankly, frustrating.

The first step to being good as something is to accept that there will always be someone who is either factually better or is perceived to be better, and that, "Better" is simply a matter of perception more often than not.

Sure you can be a better player if you beat somebody, but flip the lists. Can you win with their lists? If not, then it was the list that had the advantage. Play the same list against each other, then check out who's better at using stuff. Then you can gloat.

But seriously. Being better doesn't matter.

Just like... Relax. Have fun. You're fooling around with inch long plus toys on a table and flinging carboard around with a furrowed brow.

Realize you're playing with toys- hopefully because you love Star Wars and just want to enjoy something, and not winning a huge grand prize. I mean it's great to be competitive but...

...Sometimes, it just goes too far. Dig?

How about you relax and accept that everyone is different? I enjoy playing the game exactly the way I do, which is to win. That doesn't make my way any better or any worse than yours. So relax, and enjoy those HWKS at your kitchen table games. I'll be over here enjoying the brand new transport I won last weekend by "worrying 'bout" the meta.

I think what the original intent of this whole post is : "do we all have to be in tournament mode 24/7 ?

I don't get the sense that this board is all about tournaments. There's a lot of endless discussion about third factions (and how they should not be done), star destroyers (and why they should not be done), new types of TIE fighters (and how they should not be done), etc.

The thing is, I notice that some people really like cut-throat 6-asteroid-100-point-Death-Matches, but many don't. Some people like mission-style play, many don't. Some people are in it for the Star Wars, some people are in it for the chess.

Much of what goes on here is these different people talking at eachother not knowing that the other's person's itch is not their own. Since we're not going to each have our own subforum, as those don't change, it's probably wiser to advertise (in your title or OP) what you do want to discuss, rather then telling someone else what they should chill out about.

All-in-all, I'm probably more in your chill-out camp.

So, what do you want to discuss? I'm game.

You say being better doesn't matter.

Completely disagree. Improving yourself in whatever you enjoy and are passionate about is one of the most powerful and rewarding feelings you can get. :

"Oh but they are toys..."

" And... ?"

Edit - And by this, i don't mean to sound that you can't care/play/enjoy the game whatever way you want, But judging others for how they want to enjoy their hobbies is always a big no to me.

@ wonderwaagh. Well, good job on winning that transport. At least you didn't have to shell out 60 bucks on one.

That's great that you like to have fun in that way.

I don't think you are wrong. And from reading your posts (which I like), you don't seem to be pushing

Your Way of play on anyone.

But sometimes all of the "Must play tournament way" Bull$#! T gets old real quick.

The problem only gets compounded worse, when some one comes on and says "Hey, it's just a game, can we try something different, .? Or at least change our thinking.

OF course this isn't going to fly, cause now a big nerve has been struck with any and all of the "Mr.Meta-Gamers"

And they'll be god dammed if some little newbie piss ant is gonna come onto "their forum boards"and have

A new idea.

It's one thing to say "accept that people are different and play the game differently"

But at the same time the general attitude is combative from the meta gamers side.

When I signed up for this forum, no where did it state, "MUST CONFORM ONLY TO TOURNAMENT LEVEL THINKING AND IDEALS"

Just saying, if we all changed our thinking a little, maybe some of these newbie ideas wouldn't be so bad.

Also, I'm not bashing anyone in particular, not even wonderwaaggh.

Sometimes the whole gotta play tournament way just gets frustrating.

Especially, when you gotta deal with some of those win at all costs people,

Who can think of nothing else, it kind of brings out the worst in people.