If the Overlord cycles through his deck twice in the same dungeon level, the heroes are ejected from the dungeon and are forced to flee it.

This is from the latest FAQ. Has anyone else found this to be problematic? This means that if the OL deck is almost gone when a level starts, there is a very limited amount of turns available. This is made worse with Evil Genius in play - if there's 1 card left in OL deck and OL has a full hand when the deck is cycled, the heroes have only 10 turns (with Focus played) before they're ejected.

This can make it impossible to complete the larger dungeons (legendary areas and rumours). The FAQ doesn't specify if the deck has to cycle completely from beginning to end, which I guess it would, were it to be meant that way.

those are a lot of ifs, and unless your heroes are brain dead stupid to finish a level of the dungeon when the OL has only one card left in his deck, you might as well get whats coming to you. And its a easier ruling than the old one for the heroes since you wouldn't finish legendary in 3 shuffles like the old ruling if you just slop around.

Sorry to say, but the way I remember it over half the forum said it was to harsh for the OL, but it was in need for legendary.

I don't think its harsh at all. In fact, I think its too easy on the Heroes.

The original ruling was three times through the deck for the ENTIRE dungeon. Now its twice through for ONE level of the dungeon, which is much less likely to happen in my experience. I've never even come close as an OL, or a player for that matter, to having this happen. Speed is key in RtL and if your heroes are sitting around on a level for that long they deserve to get booted from the dungeon.

Basically, this is meant to prevent Heroes from sitting in a dungeon, and forcing the OL to gather CT and thus initiating the final battle early.

I know what it was for and how it works in practise (apparently). I'm just saying it's not a very well thought out mechanism, basicly making the large dungeons unplayable in the right (admittedly rare) conditions. I guess that the heroes just have to stall at the 2nd level and wait for the deck to run out, so they can have 2 complete deck cycles on the final level.

Granted it was a rule made in response to a specific situation, but how often have you cycled through the deck once on a RtL level? I've never done it, even when my Heroes have dragged their feet and with Evil Genius out.

Kharan said:

Are you talking about RLT levels? Do you have any expainsions? Large dungeons unplayable? I hate to be a broken record but all I can say is move faster.

Kharan said:

For a big dungeon (read: vanilla) I can sometimes cycle twice, so this ruling might get the heroes on Legendary Areas in our games (also might not). I don't think it's much to worry about on Rumours or regular dungeon levels. I would count it as twice fully (so if the OL had one card in his deck he would still have to cycle two full times before getting this.) Theoretically you could count down tot he card to make sure he's gone through the full deck twice, but that's a pain in the ass. If the deck is small enough at the start of a level that concern is raised, I'd just waive the first cycle and count from fresh.

If your group has a problem with this, bump it up to 3 cycles. This is one area where house rules probably won't destroy game balance (especially if your heroes are having trouble winning with 2 cycles.) Same net effect for the purposes the rule was conceived, not as much pressure.

Steve-O said:

House ruling this will not destroy game balance but quite frankly if the heroes are having a hard time with this they need to learn to play the game better.

granor said:

This is true, too. If the group you're playing with expects that the heroes will win in the end, you should probably explain to them that that is not how the game is meant to be played. You can do whatever you like at your table, of course, but the game is designed to go either way (Heroes or OL) and to ideally keep things close up to the end. It's a board game, not an RPG. Everyone is playing to win here. By the same token, the OL does not technically have the authority to bend or change rules as a DM would in most RPGs. The OL is a player too. If everyone at the table agrees to house rules, that's one thing, but the OL can't just change whatever he likes willy-nilly.

We've houseruled it to be three for final levels of Rumours, Legendary Areas, and other such special dungeons, and, of course, the Overlord's Keep in the Final Battle is exempt. This is purely to give those levels more of an airing, and add to the fun factor of the game.

I have all the expansions and if you see the OL deck...not likely that im goning to go trough the deck once in one dungeon level even with evil genious in play early.

The RtL manual doesn't specifically say anything on this either way, but I'm guessing that the OL still gets 3 conquest when cycling the deck in an RtL dungeon?

Veinman said:

Yes he still does. Since its a rule from JitD (page 11) that isn't specifically overruled by an RtL rule it applies.

I also have all the expansions, and even with our house-rules for three cycles in Legendary, they where booted out of the Caverns of Thuul just after killing the third Dragon.If we'd gone with two, they'd have been booted out immediately prior to the second dragon's death from effect tokens.