How could FFG create a way to put multiple missiles/torps on a bomber a good thing?

One possible solution:

Full Payload

Modification: 6 points

After firing a Missile/Torpedo, if an enemy ship is in your firing arc, aquire a target lock on that ship. Then fire another missile/torpedo weapon. Repeat this until no more missile/torpedo weapons remain.

No weapon may be fired multiple times. (In case a bomber ever gets a way to have 2 modifications IE this + munitions failsafe)

Who needs an Imperial Huge ship when we can have this!

That is a lot of points on one platform.

I want to try Rhymer with two APT next to Vader with Squad Leader.

I would have preferred something like this instead of irrational Munitions Failsafe:

Reserve ordnance, Modification, 1-2pt(?):
After shooting a torpedo/missile, do not discard the upgrade card but flip it facedown. Action: You may load the missile tube by rolling the attack dice. If you roll a blank the autoloader is jammed because too aggressive manouvers and it cannot load the missile during this turn. On [hit] and [crit] result you may flip the card faceup.

I guess you get the idea although the wording is far from perfect.

How could FFG create a way to put multiple missiles/torps on a bomber a good thing?

One possible solution:

Full Payload

Modification: 6 points

After firing a Missile/Torpedo, if an enemy ship is in your firing arc, aquire a target lock on that ship. Then fire another missile/torpedo weapon. Repeat this until no more missile/torpedo weapons remain.

No weapon may be fired multiple times. (In case a bomber ever gets a way to have 2 modifications IE this + munitions failsafe)

I'm pretty sure FFG meant for the game to last longer than two minutes, it should last, at the very least, longer that it takes to setup and take down....

How about the first one to shoot wins the game?

I'm all for ordnance being a little better but why would you run anything else if you could insta kill anything?

How could FFG create a way to put multiple missiles/torps on a bomber a good thing?

One possible solution:

Full Payload

Modification: 6 points

After firing a Missile/Torpedo, if an enemy ship is in your firing arc, aquire a target lock on that ship. Then fire another missile/torpedo weapon. Repeat this until no more missile/torpedo weapons remain.

No weapon may be fired multiple times. (In case a bomber ever gets a way to have 2 modifications IE this + munitions failsafe)

I'm pretty sure FFG meant for the game to last longer than two minutes, it should last, at the very least, longer that it takes to setup and take down....

How about the first one to shoot wins the game?

Hey I know my idea isn't perfect, but it's just an idea. care to offer one of your own?

They gave us a ship with slots for 2 missiles AND 2 torpedoes, yet almost nobody ever takes more than one secondary weapon. I'm trying to brainstorm on ways to fix this. A way that you might actually consider loading up a bomber with 2 proton torpedoes and 2 concussion missiles.

Yes though, shooting everything first turn could indeed be far too powerful - so if they were going to do something like that it would have to require a 2-3 turn "build-up" of some sort.

New idea:

Double Spread - Elite Pilot Talent

3 points

When firing a missile or torpedo, if you have 2 of the same one equipped, you may discard BOTH of them instead of just one, to add [hit] [hit] to your attack roll.

This way you are almost guarantee'd to hit, and get a bonus to that missile, but it costs alot more because you had to spend like 8 or 10. Y wings could use it too.

Would need some rewording to account for munitions fail-safe though.

Taking one range 2-3 and one range 1-2 isn't too bad. I think a low power range 3+ option would be a good boost to ordnance. Right now you almost need to pack both ranges to ensure having the alpha, adding a range band would help get things off easier and would be viable if it was only a few dice.

I prefer to think that the bomber has all these slot so you can customize it to your liking, not to fill them all.

You want a missile and a bomb. go for it. 2 torpedo and a bomb, go ahead. A missile and a torpedo you say? Why not. Just a bomb. I won't stop ya.... and on, and on, and on...

A bomber to every sauce, that's one of the beauty of the ship.

To answer your question, a scimitar with 2 flechette, a Proton Rocket, a Ion missile and a Seismic charge would cost you 28pts. Just 3 more than Biggs so......... you could use it to draw some fire.....

Secondary consumable munitions appear to be situational. Just my newbie opinion here. Even just a pair of missiles or torps is about the same as another fighter. And then there is the concern of your ship surviving to unload the payload...Though again I could see some builds.

I definitely want to try my all bomber seismic squad for example. Possible counter to swarm or high defense lists.

Maybe if charges were 1 pt, and missiles / torps / bombs were 2 pts?

The thing is, most missiles are likey to result in 3+ damage when fired, so against most targets, a pair of missiles or torpedoes should blow most fighters out of the sky.

I wouldn't mind a 'fire two identical missiles/torpedoes' talents - it makes sense that a target lock will allow you to fire all weapons of the same type . That was pretty much what the missile gunboat was designed to do, after all.

Salvo

When attacking with a secondary weapon that requires you to spend a target lock, you may choose to attack with all equipped secondary weapons of that type. Discard all cards used in this attack. You may not attack again this round.

Might work better as a pilot ability, or an EPT instead of a modification, especially as a limiter. Still rather overpowered if you'd launch two assault missiles into a swarm for instance, or two APT's at point blank range at a Firespray.

The discard clause to negate the Munitions Failsafe, the attack limitation to prevent a B-wing with gunner and two flechettes from attacking three times.

FFG appears to have been very careful not to let you have multiple attacks per turn unless either the first attack misses, it's a piss weak weapon system, or some other significant limitiation. Drawing inspiration from Corran Horn however, I could see this as an upgrade (probably EPT) however:

Alpha Strike

You may attack with 2 secondary weapons this turn. You must give up your attack next turn.

Or release a new ordnance card that takes up multiple slots and costs more but is more effective?
"Proton Barrage" (Two Torp slots) 10pts

[Target Lock] - Range 3, Attack 6.

Discard this card to make an attack roll against the target ship. A blank may be changed to a focus, a seperate focus die to a hit and a seperate hit die to a crit.

How could FFG create a way to put multiple missiles/torps on a bomber a good thing?

One possible solution:

Full Payload

Modification: 6 points

After firing a Missile/Torpedo, if an enemy ship is in your firing arc, aquire a target lock on that ship. Then fire another missile/torpedo weapon. Repeat this until no more missile/torpedo weapons remain.

No weapon may be fired multiple times. (In case a bomber ever gets a way to have 2 modifications IE this + munitions failsafe)

I'm pretty sure FFG meant for the game to last longer than two minutes, it should last, at the very least, longer that it takes to setup and take down....

How about the first one to shoot wins the game?

Hey I know my idea isn't perfect, but it's just an idea. care to offer one of your own?

They gave us a ship with slots for 2 missiles AND 2 torpedoes, yet almost nobody ever takes more than one secondary weapon. I'm trying to brainstorm on ways to fix this. A way that you might actually consider loading up a bomber with 2 proton torpedoes and 2 concussion missiles.

Yes though, shooting everything first turn could indeed be far too powerful - so if they were going to do something like that it would have to require a 2-3 turn "build-up" of some sort.

New idea:

Double Spread - Elite Pilot Talent

3 points

When firing a missile or torpedo, if you have 2 of the same one equipped, you may discard BOTH of them instead of just one, to add [hit] [hit] to your attack roll.

This way you are almost guarantee'd to hit, and get a bonus to that missile, but it costs alot more because you had to spend like 8 or 10. Y wings could use it too.

Would need some rewording to account for munitions fail-safe though.

FFG directly states in the bomber article that the bomber isn't designed to be fully loaded (their choice of words was "overloaded missile boat", it has that many slots to give the player maximum customisation options. Drop any slot and you limit it to one of one particular ordnance type, drop two and you limit player options even further. You never equip a bomber with more stuff than you think it'll fire.

My issue with ordnance is that you pay (a lot of) points for a one-shot item with questionable effectiveness due to needing a target lock first. (this means it costs points ánd an action! Plus you need good PS because you need to move last ideally etc)

Anything solving this would be nice.

I myself would lean to a modification (Tie bomber/Y-wing only):

Example:

"Ordnance target lock"- (? but few) points.

After your move you can have a free 'Ordnance Target Lock' (OTL) on any enemy ship within range. This OTL can only be used to for firing ordnance.

The basic idea is to make dedicated bomber/ordnance ships to be more self-sufficient in doing what they are meant to do in the first place; shoving ordnance down unwilling enemy throats.

With an additional action (ordnance only-TL) you could combine it with a focus and improve the odds that your expensive one-shot only attack actually HURTS.

My issue with ordnance is that you pay (a lot of) points for a one-shot item with questionable effectiveness due to needing a target lock first. (this means it costs points ánd an action! Plus you need good PS because you need to move last ideally etc)

That's why I prefer to use them with Jonus so I can have 2 reroll + the random bonus of the ordnance (focus to a crit, blank to a hit, 2 attack), it makes the shot much more effective.

If not, and if I know that I won't be able to TL+Focus, I'll take Homing missiles so I can reroll any dice, or flechette torpedo because they're cheap and give a stress either way. Combined with Munition Failsafe, you can turn your bomber into a 3 attack dice unit for a couple of round that gives stress. A Scimitar with 2 Flechette is only 20pts, 21 if you add Munition Failsafe. I'm also waiting for the Proton Rocket because you'll keep the focus needed to modify your roll.

But other than that, yeah, ordnance sucks.

But other than that, yeah, ordnance sucks.

We seem to agree. Now if only FFG came up with a proper solution.

Because two flechettes is about as awesome as two Ion Pulse missiles or 1 of each. It gives options. It doesn't need or want to fill every slot.

given that the playing field is only around 250m in square, someone should just bring a small tactical nuke to the party - that should really end the game in the first dice throw.

My issue with ordnance is that you pay (a lot of) points for a one-shot item with questionable effectiveness due to needing a target lock first. (this means it costs points ánd an action! Plus you need good PS because you need to move last ideally etc)

That's why I prefer to use them with Jonus so I can have 2 reroll + the random bonus of the ordnance (focus to a crit, blank to a hit, 2 attack), it makes the shot much more effective.

If not, and if I know that I won't be able to TL+Focus, I'll take Homing missiles so I can reroll any dice, or flechette torpedo because they're cheap and give a stress either way. Combined with Munition Failsafe, you can turn your bomber into a 3 attack dice unit for a couple of round that gives stress. A Scimitar with 2 Flechette is only 20pts, 21 if you add Munition Failsafe. I'm also waiting for the Proton Rocket because you'll keep the focus needed to modify your roll.

But other than that, yeah, ordnance sucks.

It is my opinion that Attack Wing actually handles ordinance far better. Most missiles and torps when fired are simply "Disabled". You simply spend an action to remove the "Disabled" status (reload) and you may fire again. Most of the more powerful secondary weapons do remain one shot however, or require some kind of other prerequisite (like the Borg cutting beam requiring the enemy ship be in a tractor beam and at range band 1).

The thing is, most missiles are likey to result in 3+ damage when fired, so against most targets, a pair of missiles or torpedoes should blow most fighters out of the sky.

I wouldn't mind a 'fire two identical missiles/torpedoes' talents - it makes sense that a target lock will allow you to fire all weapons of the same type . That was pretty much what the missile gunboat was designed to do, after all.

You must have been quite lucky with your missiles in the past. Most of them require you to spend your target lock resulting in an unmodified attack, and then if you roll any hits most opponents would spend focus to ignore them, forcing you to have wasted 4+ points. Most consistent exceptions are Homing Missiles which can easily punch through defense, Advanced Torpedoes that have over a 90% chance to get five hits assuming you are also focused, and attacks against low agility ships. Bombers are often flanked by Captain Jonus, allowing them rerolls, but honestly, in most cases, if your missile causes more than one damage to your target, you have been quite lucky.

I also think they need to tweak ordnance to make it worth taking. Munitions fail safe is a good step In that direction. So are cheaper missiles, except the tend to make the old ones obsolete. I think a modification card that reduces the cost of ordinance at the expense of something else might be good. Particularly for the tie bomber and the y wing. Something like. " dedicated bomber modification. Reduce your primary weapon attack value by one for the remainder of the game, and reduce the cost of all torpedoes by 2 and all missiles by 1. Exception would be proton rockets and flèchette and ions. Not worded well here and only half thought out. One area where I do think we will see a bit of revival with proton torps and the like is in epic play.

Maybe a ywing specific one that makes you lose the turret for a discount or BOGO on ordnance.

How about an astromech geared for ordnance that grants you a free TL every time you fire a secondary weapon? Or let's you re roll a die or two when you roll for damage. This only helps the ywing of course.

Or a 1 point astromech that lets you take missiles in place of torps?

These are the sort of things I would like to see in a rebel aces release focused on the y wing. The ywing is a great ship, but only sees combat as an ion turret platform. I would like to see it bring the heat a little more often.

How about an astromech with a rhymer like ability that let's you increase the range of ordnance by 1? Protons could then shoot at range 2-4. APTs would be scarier as well. This droid would have to be costed appropriately, but thematically this makes sense. After al, proton torpedoes are not made for dogfighting in the first place. This droid with munitions failure might be interesting.

A clunky option but another possibility would be a warhead modification for certain cards, like the proton torp.

Of all the ordnance, it needs the love the most I think. But I think they might see more action once the empire has a huge ship. Might work well on the decimator too. The more I think about it, a range boost to torps makes a lot of sense, and makes me want to take them more often... Might give this a spin as a house rule...

On the original proposal, how about a limitation that "when using a missile or torpedo, resolve the attack. Then acquire a target lock on an enemy ship within range 3".

This resolves one major issue of multiple ordnance, which is that it is difficult to get off individual shots. It is not restricted to the original target should you luckily destroy it with your first shot. It doesn't need "memory" so you can use the TL for a primary shot if you want, so still has a minor benefit for a ship with only one slot/ordnance card remaining.

However it is less powerful than the OP suggestion as you still only get a single shot per turn. It sets your bomber/B-wing up to focus next turn to get the most out of the next missile, yet allows the enemy a chance to react before you fire.