On the other hand, I lost my Regionals because I allowed too much laxity in my play against my opponent. If I had been less concerned with being a good sport and didn't allow his takebacks to mistakes I would have won the match easily. I regret playing so lax and have learnt to be utterly ruthless in tournaments henceforth.

This is why on an organizational level "take-backs" should not be allowed during Regionals play. For one thing allowing take backs in a tourney that is likely to have a couple of hundred people at it will extend your playing time a great deal and not in a fun way but for dealing with player errors. If it's the current expectation that "take-backs" are allowed at the Regional level, it is going to take more than just FGG's judges putting their foot down, Different expectations will need to be set from within the competitive community.

When playing in tournaments, I try and be friendly and relaxed. I'll remind my opponent of forgotten actions if I remember, and sometimes even suggest better ways of having flown against me while we are playing.

I used to play 40k quite a bit, and winning was important. Then I realised, being someone fun to play was more important.

In my opinion a game is a contract between 2 people to have fun.

However, if I'm playing someone who is hard line, or wont return a favour, I can be very very petty.

I haven't had any bad experiences in tournaments yet, having played in 6 so far. I love the fly casual theme, and intend to fly as casually as I can

When it comes to playing in this regional this Saturday, I plan on playing a good game. I plan on reminding my opponent that he has an action after moving, but not what action he should take. I'll remind him of Ibby's reroll, even if I might lose. I'll help him move his ships on my side of the table and I hope he helps me on his side. If he rolls 3 natural crits I'll complement the **** good roll. If he rolls all evades and escapes with no damage I'll say nice dodge!

I want to win, but I need to have fun first, and playing well is what I intend to do.

Fly casual.

When it comes to playing in this regional this Saturday, I plan on playing a good game. I plan on reminding my opponent that he has an action after moving, but not what action he should take. I'll remind him of Ibby's reroll, even if I might lose. I'll help him move his ships on my side of the table and I hope he helps me on his side. If he rolls 3 natural crits I'll complement the **** good roll. If he rolls all evades and escapes with no damage I'll say nice dodge!

I want to win, but I need to have fun first, and playing well is what I intend to do.

Fly casual.

Yes!

This is the game I want to play.

@Sergovan, which regional is that?

Here's a good one.

Now, say, you have Carnor Jax range 1 of the enemy Soontir Fel that just moved, both players forget about Jax's abiIity and Fel takes E + F + F. Another PS 9 ship moves after Fel, sort of locking in Fel's action. Shooting phase comes around and the opponent's Fel has first shot. At this point, you remember Jax's ability. Fel took the F and E actions, but now cant spend them, what do you do? Do you let him boost and barrel roll instead? Does he get to spend the tokens? Does he not get to spend the tokens? What if him barrel rolling or boosting affects how the other PS 9 ship took actions?

In this situation, I would suppose the thing that would have to happen is Fel is stuck with focus and evade. If hes playing someone like me, I would allow him to attempt to boast or barrel roll in a way that would not effect him knowing how my skill 9s moved. However it would just depend on how far the game has gone. It would give him reason to shoot at carnor if he knew he could use the evade and focus for defense, It really depends on the state of the game and how far it has come.

And yes, I have not sidesteped wedge, I have however declared a target without measuring for Biggs (I did not feel it was right), and after my opponent accepted to roll defense, I asked him to measure to Biggs. I already stated Ive seen the wrong number of damage vs evades and had to correct my opponent. I have even had my opponent pick a ship off the board, I reminded him, and he placed it back (though if he would of asked if he could of put it back, I would be tempted to say no)

Here's a good one.

Now, say, you have Carnor Jax range 1 of the enemy Soontir Fel that just moved, both players forget about Jax's abiIity and Fel takes E + F + F. Another PS 9 ship moves after Fel, sort of locking in Fel's action. Shooting phase comes around and the opponent's Fel has first shot. At this point, you remember Jax's ability. Fel took the F and E actions, but now cant spend them, what do you do? Do you let him boost and barrel roll instead? Does he get to spend the tokens? Does he not get to spend the tokens? What if him barrel rolling or boosting affects how the other PS 9 ship took actions?

It might be seen as harsh, but in a competitive situation I would say to remove the tokens (including the stress from PtL) and treat it as though he forgot his action. If we had caught the mistake before my ships moved, I would let him choose new actions, but now he knows how my PS9 guys will move, and I have made my decisions based on his Fel's tokens and position. Removing the tokens gets it as close to the "correct" game state as possible without letting anyone benefit from the future information. It's also the way that wastes as little of the clock as possible.

In a casual, un-timed match, I'd be more willing to go back and let Fel re-action, provided I also got to go back with any of my ships that moved after him.

"Cheating is considered bad sportsmanship and can be frowned upon"

Alright, got it.

I was thinking about this and regional tournaments are just different. You have different people showing up, mostly different motivations for playing and people get a lot more strict and tense. It just seems to mean more to people maybe because they are bigger or more official, maybe players just think of how much they can e-bay prizes and swag for and just lose all sense of perspective but they are definitely different.

Not less fun, just a different, more serious kind of fun. Great for pushing yourself and determining where your skill level really is. Not so great for restoring your faith in Humanity....

@Sergovan, which regional is that?

Gatineau regional in Quebec.

I'm doing up a Batrep for it right now but I'm missing a good chunk of the player lists and only have the top 15 names before cut to top 8. It will have pics though.

So Ive been to a number of tournies in Xwing, and had seen people forget abuot pilot abilities quite often. For a pilot like Howlrunner, I never remind them that they have the reroll ability, or if they forget about determination or something, I let them remove their ship off the board without saying a word.

Im the kind of guy who when you forget to put a stress token, but made a red move the round before, and are attempting to make another red move, I let you do it because it was my fault for not catching the missing token in the first place.

So three scenarios, do you remind your opponents?

1. You are being shot by wedge. Do you reduce your dice by 1 automatically, or wait for your opponent to tell you. If you wait for your opponent. I always add up the dice I am about to roll for my opponent and ask him if its ok.

2. Your opponent is being quite clever with Biggs and is jumping him in range 1 of other ships and out of other ships firing arcs. You have the opportunity to shoot down a ship, but is clearly in range 1 of Biggs. Do you announce you are going to shoot at the wounded ship and wait for a reply from your opponent that you cannot shoot at the ship? (Ive come into this situation but felt icky about doing it, so I had my opponent see if he was range 1 of biggs)

3. You roll 3 dice, hit, hit, and blank. Your opponent rolls one evade and one blank. He draws 2 damage cards. Do you correct him, or let him draw damage? (I have always reminded my opponent)

All are mandatory actions. Knowing failure to follow them should be considered CHEATING.

While I may not remind a character about an optional, or "may", operation if it is something that ALWAYS happens it is up to both players to make sure it does. More on that later. If something is optional then "letting it go" is fine although I strongly encourage you to consider your opponent.

Here's a good one.

Now, say, you have Carnor Jax range 1 of the enemy Soontir Fel that just moved, both players forget about Jax's abiIity and Fel takes E + F + F. Another PS 9 ship moves after Fel, sort of locking in Fel's action. Shooting phase comes around and the opponent's Fel has first shot. At this point, you remember Jax's ability. Fel took the F and E actions, but now cant spend them, what do you do? Do you let him boost and barrel roll instead? Does he get to spend the tokens? Does he not get to spend the tokens? What if him barrel rolling or boosting affects how the other PS 9 ship took actions?

The classic "we both missed it," problem. The "upside" of this example may be that while Fel took actions/tokens he shouldn't have he isn't going to be able to spend them anyway with Jax right there. This is a case where you should call the TO over and ask for further instruction. Considering the action phase has past so a "do-over" really isn't appropriate I'd say the best call would be to void the actions taken and remove the tokens. Yes, that option really sucks for Fel I'd hope the player recognized their "illegal" actions before they took them. Where I would have problems is if Jax's owner RECOGNIZED the error as it was being committed but said nothing hoping for an outcome where Fel basically does nothing; depending on how things get ruled he has EVERYTHING to gain if tokens are removed which may actually be incentive to allow them to remain.

TOs should also be issuing warnings to both players for allowing illegal actions to be taken. Warnings and subsequent sanctions are the only thing (beyond personal honor and etiquette) to prevent the Jax player from making a habit of allowing their opponent to take illegal actions.

The rules of this game are fairly clear, if players just made more of an effort to play by them there would be less issues. Allowing take-backs, and by extension accepting take-backs, is not what makes for good sportsmanship. It just encourages lazy play that leads to issues where the game breaks down because players aren't sticking to the rules. Save you TO some grey hairs, don't be a patsy to lazy play, you aren't doing anything but hurting your opponent long term.

TOs should also be issuing warnings to both players for allowing illegal actions to be taken. Warnings and subsequent sanctions are the only thing (beyond personal honor and etiquette) to prevent the Jax player from making a habit of allowing their opponent to take illegal actions.

The rules of this game are fairly clear, if players just made more of an effort to play by them there would be less issues. Allowing take-backs, and by extension accepting take-backs, is not what makes for good sportsmanship. It just encourages lazy play that leads to issues where the game breaks down because players aren't sticking to the rules. Save you TO some grey hairs, don't be a patsy to lazy play, you aren't doing anything but hurting your opponent long term.

TOs should also be issuing warnings to both players for allowing illegal actions to be taken. Warnings and subsequent sanctions are the only thing (beyond personal honor and etiquette) to prevent the Jax player from making a habit of allowing their opponent to take illegal actions.

The rules of this game are fairly clear, if players just made more of an effort to play by them there would be less issues. Allowing take-backs, and by extension accepting take-backs, is not what makes for good sportsmanship. It just encourages lazy play that leads to issues where the game breaks down because players aren't sticking to the rules. Save you TO some grey hairs, don't be a patsy to lazy play, you aren't doing anything but hurting your opponent long term.

That's nonsense. It's called creating atmosphere. People are far from infallible. Tournaments full of rules debates are a frustrating and souring experience. Sometimes both players forget. That isn't lazy. It's human.

What rules debates are you talking about? Rules debates come up when players don't know the rules or aren't following rules. Players should know the rules before entering an event, this isn't GW the rules are not vague and nonsensical in most cases. Going into an event and not knowing the rules of the game is poor sportsmanship as you are now putting a burden on your opponents and the TO. If players know the rules, and make all reasonable efforts to follow the rules, where are rule debates going to come up? The issues we are talking about here and coming from players not paying enough attention to what's going on in the game. One player brought Jax, likely for his ability, the other player should be aware of that ability, yet they both missed it. His ship is bright red! That only happens when players aren't making the needed effort.

Yes mistakes will occasionally happen, but there is no reason to encourage them by creating an atmosphere where rules and procedure are lax in implementation. All that does is serve to cause issues by muddling up what are clear situations, creating opportunities for conflict between players which wouldn't occur if the rules had just been followed, and forcing the TO to get involved in games.

My initial statement calling for warning from the TO is all about creating an atmosphere where players are expected to ensure that whether it is to their advantage or not that the rules of the game are being followed.

TOs should also be issuing warnings to both players for allowing illegal actions to be taken. Warnings and subsequent sanctions are the only thing (beyond personal honor and etiquette) to prevent the Jax player from making a habit of allowing their opponent to take illegal actions.

The rules of this game are fairly clear, if players just made more of an effort to play by them there would be less issues. Allowing take-backs, and by extension accepting take-backs, is not what makes for good sportsmanship. It just encourages lazy play that leads to issues where the game breaks down because players aren't sticking to the rules. Save you TO some grey hairs, don't be a patsy to lazy play, you aren't doing anything but hurting your opponent long term.

That's nonsense. It's called creating atmosphere. People are far from infallible. Tournaments full of rules debates are a frustrating and souring experience. Sometimes both players forget. That isn't lazy. It's human.

What rules debates are you talking about? Rules debates come up when players don't know the rules or aren't following rules. Players should know the rules before entering an event, this isn't GW the rules are not vague and nonsensical in most cases. Going into an event and not knowing the rules of the game is poor sportsmanship as you are now putting a burden on your opponents and the TO. If players know the rules, and make all reasonable efforts to follow the rules, where are rule debates going to come up? The issues we are talking about here and coming from players not paying enough attention to what's going on in the game. One player brought Jax, likely for his ability, the other player should be aware of that ability, yet they both missed it. His ship is bright red! That only happens when players aren't making the needed effort.

Yes mistakes will occasionally happen, but there is no reason to encourage them by creating an atmosphere where rules and procedure are lax in implementation. All that does is serve to cause issues by muddling up what are clear situations, creating opportunities for conflict between players which wouldn't occur if the rules had just been followed, and forcing the TO to get involved in games.

My initial statement calling for warning from the TO is all about creating an atmosphere where players are expected to ensure that whether it is to their advantage or not that the rules of the game are being followed.

TOs should also be issuing warnings to both players for allowing illegal actions to be taken. Warnings and subsequent sanctions are the only thing (beyond personal honor and etiquette) to prevent the Jax player from making a habit of allowing their opponent to take illegal actions.

The rules of this game are fairly clear, if players just made more of an effort to play by them there would be less issues. Allowing take-backs, and by extension accepting take-backs, is not what makes for good sportsmanship. It just encourages lazy play that leads to issues where the game breaks down because players aren't sticking to the rules. Save you TO some grey hairs, don't be a patsy to lazy play, you aren't doing anything but hurting your opponent long term.

That's nonsense. It's called creating atmosphere. People are far from infallible. Tournaments full of rules debates are a frustrating and souring experience. Sometimes both players forget. That isn't lazy. It's human.

What rules debates are you talking about? Rules debates come up when players don't know the rules or aren't following rules. Players should know the rules before entering an event, this isn't GW the rules are not vague and nonsensical in most cases. Going into an event and not knowing the rules of the game is poor sportsmanship as you are now putting a burden on your opponents and the TO. If players know the rules, and make all reasonable efforts to follow the rules, where are rule debates going to come up? The issues we are talking about here and coming from players not paying enough attention to what's going on in the game. One player brought Jax, likely for his ability, the other player should be aware of that ability, yet they both missed it. His ship is bright red! That only happens when players aren't making the needed effort.

Yes mistakes will occasionally happen, but there is no reason to encourage them by creating an atmosphere where rules and procedure are lax in implementation. All that does is serve to cause issues by muddling up what are clear situations, creating opportunities for conflict between players which wouldn't occur if the rules had just been followed, and forcing the TO to get involved in games.

My initial statement calling for warning from the TO is all about creating an atmosphere where players are expected to ensure that whether it is to their advantage or not that the rules of the game are being followed.

Most people don't want to play in an environment ruled with an iron fist. Warning players for making honest mistakes is asking to have no players. End of story. I would never play at any venue that did so, and would encourage others not to as well. Judging like that is BS.

I agree, thats too harsh. If the Carnor players suggested the actions to the opponent, then I might see a warning needed. I do that to hurry people up if they are taking too long trying to remember everything "oh, you moved your interceptor, you just going to focus evade focus? goahead and move your next guy, and you can place your tokens after you moved."

Most people don't want to play in an environment ruled with an iron fist. Warning players for making honest mistakes is asking to have no players. End of story. I would never play at any venue that did so, and would encourage others not to as well. Judging like that is BS.

In what way is giving a warning to a player ruling with an iron fist? It's a warning, all it is is a remainder to pay more attention to what's going on. You act like I suggest DQing someone for the first mistake. I feel you are being quite hyperbolic.

Why shouldn't players be warned for making an honest mistake? They are allowing the rules of the game to be broken and could very well be putting their opponent at a disadvantage as a result. In the Jax situation the Fel player could have take any other beneficial action, boosting or barrel rolling, but now is basically left at a disadvantage. The Jax player gained advantage by allowing, through deliberate or unintentional inaction, the rules to be broken. We call it an honest mistake but StevenO brought up that it very well could be purposeful. A TO has little way of diving the player intent that separates honest mistake from cheating.

If you give the players are warning and it was an honest mistake then you won't have further issues as they are more likely to pay closer attention. If it was deliberate then you'll either prevent the player from cheating again or provide yourself clear course of action for what to do if it happens again. Either way you have two less players likely to cause further issues in subsequent games. All without having to accuse anyone of any impropriety, just simply reminding them that they need to make sure the rules are followed.

I can see that Fel vs. Jax issue bringing a warning to both players. I mean it SHOULDN'T happen especially when Jax is a "build around me" piece in most squadrons and his ability would often come into play. Maybe the only time someone could reasonably "forget" about Jax is when he's part of an Interceptor squad that has been doing most of it's playing out of his ability's range. Also remember, we are only talking about a WARNING here as in "DON'T let it happen again," should be obvious.

Jeeze. If you don't want a warning, play the game correctly. Usually a game mistake is its own punishment, but right now we're talking about actually breaking the rules. Honesty doesn't factor into the equation. As the expression goes, ignorance of the law is no excuse. The same can be said of good intentions. And really, a warning is just that - a warning. If you can't handle being told "you messed up, don't do it again," maybe you shouldn't be playing at a tournament in the first place. I highly doubt you'll be missed for having an attitude like that anyway.

Because TO intervention is in and of itself embarassing. A warning is a step before disqualification. That's too far. More than thjat though, the tone this is being presented with is "Only idiots make mistakes, punish them." That's heavy handed authoritative nonsense.

It should be embarrassing; you both stuffed up badly enough that you felt the need to call the TO over in the first place, so you both deserve to cop the warning for not playing the game right.

It's not about being authoritative, or punishing those who make mistakes. It's about encouraging both players to take responsibility for playing the game correctly.

Because TO intervention is in and of itself embarassing. A warning is a step before disqualification. That's too far. More than thjat though, the tone this is being presented with is "Only idiots make mistakes, punish them." That's heavy handed authoritative nonsense.

That's up to the TO, but usually a match loss should precede a DQ. What does it matter why the rules are being broken, though? Deliberate attempt to cheat, idiot player, or rookie mistake, the result is the same. All a warning does is attempt to prevent the issue from reoccurring, so I see no need to construe a simple preventive measure as some kind of draconian policy.

OH NO! PUBLIC SHAMING!!

A little bit of negative attention for a negative action is COMPLETELY uncalled for in this age where people get awards just for showing up and doing what is expected.

There are any number of reasons a TO could be called over to a game and while most mean something questionable happened there's no reason for that to be seen as a negative thing. The Jax vs. Fel issue could be an "honest" mistake and is on both players. It is a FAR cry from someone bringing in a damage deck that has been modified for the benefit of the squad used which could easily be seen as premeditation.

Because TO intervention is in and of itself embarassing. A warning is a step before disqualification. That's too far. More than thjat though, the tone this is being presented with is "Only idiots make mistakes, punish them." That's heavy handed authoritative nonsense.

That's up to the TO, but usually a match loss should precede a DQ. What does it matter why the rules are being broken, though? Deliberate attempt to cheat, idiot player, or rookie mistake, the result is the same. All a warning does is attempt to prevent the issue from reoccurring, so I see no need to construe a simple preventive measure as some kind of draconian policy.

OH NO! PUBLIC SHAMING!!

A little bit of negative attention for a negative action is COMPLETELY uncalled for in this age where people get awards just for showing up and doing what is expected.

There are any number of reasons a TO could be called over to a game and while most mean something questionable happened there's no reason for that to be seen as a negative thing.