Tried these squad rules out with the pilot PC leading his starfighter squadron while the rest of the party was split between their own capital ship and a boarding action on the opponent's capital ship. Definitely want to try them out a few more times before formulating an opinion. So far they do speed things up well, but the players do give up something in the way of minion effectiveness. Though the ablative armor effect of minion sacrifice did save the pilot from a rather nasty turbolaser attack from the enemy ship.

My problem with Squad rules is while they protect a PC they totally de-power the entire group. Instead of almost a dozen individuals or even a couple of groups of minions and a PC taking actions you get a single action with a boost die. So really these rules only work if the enemy is doing the same thing. Then you get many more short turns of battle instead of a few long turns of battle. It wouldn't work at all when you are fighting something like a Star Destroyer with a Squadron of X-Wings. since it would still be a single piddly attack versus the Star Destroyers Capital ship actions.

It's times like these I pity the customers of other companies that are so worried about PR that they clamp down on everything. It's fantastic to get rules clarifications and demos straight from the people who actually write them without having to wait for an officially sanctioned FAQ. It says a lot about how the company feels about it's people, contributors, product, and customers.

My problem with Squad rules is while they protect a PC they totally de-power the entire group. Instead of almost a dozen individuals or even a couple of groups of minions and a PC taking actions you get a single action with a boost die. So really these rules only work if the enemy is doing the same thing. Then you get many more short turns of battle instead of a few long turns of battle. It wouldn't work at all when you are fighting something like a Star Destroyer with a Squadron of X-Wings. since it would still be a single piddly attack versus the Star Destroyers Capital ship actions.

How much is this going to be the case, though? PCs are going to team up with maximum of a minion squad each, so it's at most halving the available shots. And the minion shots wouldn't necessarily have that much impact.

The idea of more short turns sounds good to me - players playing their characters actions rather than a bunch of NPCs.

My problem with Squad rules is while they protect a PC they totally de-power the entire group. Instead of almost a dozen individuals or even a couple of groups of minions and a PC taking actions you get a single action with a boost die. So really these rules only work if the enemy is doing the same thing. Then you get many more short turns of battle instead of a few long turns of battle. It wouldn't work at all when you are fighting something like a Star Destroyer with a Squadron of X-Wings. since it would still be a single piddly attack versus the Star Destroyers Capital ship actions.

This shouldn't be an issue. As mentioned before, the Squadron rules aren't meant to replace normal combat rules, but enhance them when appropriate. And IMO they do so brilliantly.

Carry on using minion groups when the situation calls for them.

My problem with Squad rules is while they protect a PC they totally de-power the entire group. Instead of almost a dozen individuals or even a couple of groups of minions and a PC taking actions you get a single action with a boost die. So really these rules only work if the enemy is doing the same thing. Then you get many more short turns of battle instead of a few long turns of battle. It wouldn't work at all when you are fighting something like a Star Destroyer with a Squadron of X-Wings. since it would still be a single piddly attack versus the Star Destroyers Capital ship actions.

Unless you roll a Triumph on your combat check. If you do you can spend it to have the squad make an attack as an applicable minion group. Pretty nasty if you have an HBR and the minion squad is equipped with one as well.

I don't see how these rules take away from combat power at all. As a GM, I'd never keep up with all the paperwork necessary to run a full X-wing squadron without some shortcuts. That's way too much keeping up with. This is a good way to get the flavor of skirmish battles without going crazy from running a hundred NPCs.

My problem with Squad rules is while they protect a PC they totally de-power the entire group. Instead of almost a dozen individuals or even a couple of groups of minions and a PC taking actions you get a single action with a boost die. So really these rules only work if the enemy is doing the same thing. Then you get many more short turns of battle instead of a few long turns of battle. It wouldn't work at all when you are fighting something like a Star Destroyer with a Squadron of X-Wings. since it would still be a single piddly attack versus the Star Destroyers Capital ship actions.

I'm away from book, but I'm quite sure you could use the squadron rules to close in the distance to the Star Destroyer taking a few hits and have a few of the X-wing blow up while the PCs are quite safe, order all minions to attack the SD, disband the squadron and have the minions work as their own minion group or as individuals so they have some better offensive capabilities and the next turn rally them for a "tactical retreat" or something alike.

I do think this is allowed, but not 100% certain, as said AFB.

/Poseur

Sure, there will be fewer attacks against the Star Destroyer, in exchange for safety. If you want to split from the squadron, you absolutely can do so, but remember you're hanging yourself out there and are eligible to be targeted by the ISD's point defense weapons. It's a great way to model a desperate attack run, actually.

So I'm considering running a space battle where, narritively, I can give each of the players a single minion "wingman." I dont have the GM screen, but one of the others do (it's a rotating GM game) and I'm trying to piece together how the minion rule would work.

So, the minion would take hits first, like Biggs and Wedge in the Trench Run.

With a wingman, gunnery and gain the advantage checks would get a boost die (but not pilot checks to avoid terrain?)

A threat can be spent to "lose your wingman", as he is unable to follow your maneuvers

A Triumph be spent to give the wingman a separate attack (it's a Ywing, so does that apply to both the pilot and gunner?)

...is there anything else I missed?

Any way to get a copy of these rules w/o buying the screen? I don't need two screens -- I ain't playing with this guy ...

Actually, if you read Keith Kappel's narrative example you can probably work out the rules, but the intent is kinda that you buy the book they're contained in to get them

So apparently I will be a guest sometime soon on the Order 66 podcast, discussing the AOR GMK. If you guys have adventure module questions, or squad(ron) rules questions, even if they were answered here, that you think would be good to ask for the show, you can ask them in this thread to have them asked on air:

http://www.d20radio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=166&t=13536&sid=8e83c1be24bae30221f6205c3e4e216b

Also, as promised, give me a few more days, and I'll do a more space-like version of the rules in action.

I was rereading these rules for another thread and noticed that each hit automatically kills one minion. Now that's fine for troopers vs blasters since one hit would probably kill them anyway. However, it doesn't seem to be fair for squadron of fighters which often require two or three hits to be destroyed. For example, if a TIE hits a squadron with 1 success and activates Linked, that two 7 damage hits. Under the normal rules, a Y-wing would easily be able to suck up those two hits and keep on truckin'. But if the squadron leader redirects those two hits, that's two dead Y-Wings.

Which brings up another point. At what point during the combat check process are the hits redirected? Is it before or after threats/advantages are spent?

I kindly ignore that rule and continue to use the minions wound threshold in squads, and use the ships Hull threshold for squadrons.

OMG! I finally found these **** rules. I looked on my GM screen and didn't find them. I looked through my **** core rule book again. Those rules weren't there. I finally opened my adventure book that came with the GM kit and low and behold in the back of the book were the those rules. Boo!

On a positive note, I don't have search for them anymore.