So can you give a combat example so we can see how this works. Cause i don't quite get it.

When a squad attacks...Do you role the minion group of the PCs attack? Does the PC role their attack and the minion groups attack as a separate roll?

Seconded the request for a combat example.

I see hwo the squad froms, and that it behaves as an entity, but if a squad attacks do you roll all the attack dice from each member of the squad or what?

LTC

It looks like you just roll for the squad(ron) leader. If his roll gets a Triumph, it can be spent to allow the squad(ron) to attack immediately following the leader's attack using minion group rules. Works really weird if using a squadron of multi-crew fighters (like Y-wings) and you want to fire all the weapons.

I like the formations, but I'm not sure any two given people will implement the rules for how minions act the same. I look at it as good for the right situation. I was hoping for a bit more about starfighter squadrons.

And the redirecting a hit to a minion rule, while handy in a nasty starfighter battle, is not very heroic and I'd think your next leadership role (and roll) would suffer.

Many players and GMs have some difficulty with the concepts behind narrative-based games. The squad leader is not ordering a minion to take a blaster bolt for them. The situation is more like when a squad member spots the bad guys drawing a bead on their beloved leader and, with a "look out, sir!", throws himself in the way.

yeah that's my take as well, hilstad. Imagine the Y-Wing attack run in A New Hope. The leader is in charge of the squadron and Vader, along with his two crony TIE pilots, come up from behind and try to take him out. Gold Leader is not throwing his men into the line of fire, they're helping him bide time for his shot to get off. You're in charge of the squadron, which means that you're roleplaying them.

Imagine the Y-Wing attack run in A New Hope. The leader is in charge of the squadron and Vader, along with his two crony TIE pilots, come up from behind and try to take him out.

That is a great canon example of using squadrons on both sides. That should be our go-to example.

I'm still quite unclear on how attack rolls work in Squad(ron) situations. Do both the leader and the minions get an attack. If not, does the assistance of the minions modify the leader's dice pool?

and I'm stuck at work. I don't understand why it wouldn't count as a cooperative check. Would it? I've got a 4 agility and 2 piloting. My squadron is 5 starfighter pilots (agility 3, group skill 4). If everybody is attacking, it should be four yellow plus any effects from manuevers or formations. Right?

I've got the same questions as hilstad and others. The rules really don't give enough information as written, which is odd for a FFG publication.

Example:

Korvan is set up in a camp in the forest with a group of six Rebel Troopers while his PC/friends scout the surrounding area. Suddenly, a group of six Imperial Scouts mount an attack on the camp. Because no squad is formed yet, the Rebel Troopers form a minion group and roll for initiative.

The initiative rolls result in the following order: (1) PC (2) Troopers (3) Scouts

For his turn, Korvan uses a maneuver to take cover behind a tree, and then, instead of taking an action, makes a successful leadership check to form a squad.

QUESTION: What now happens to the Troopers slot? Does the squad now take a turn in that slot, or does the trooper slot now collapse into the PC slot?

The scouts minion group fire and miss at the squad, bringing up the squad's next slot.

Korvan performs a maneuver - successfully forming the squad into a "Dug In" formation.

QUESTION: What now are the options for the action? If Korvan wants the squad to fire on the scouts, how is the dice pool calculated? Does Korvan take a separate action from the rest of the squad?

During the attack roll, a single threat is rolled. The GM decides that a Trooper minion becomes separated from the group.

QUESTION: How do we now determine when this Trooper minion will act? He has no initiative slot. Does he act after everyone else?

(Edit: Added another question to the second set of questions)

I don't understand why it wouldn't count as a cooperative check. Would it? I've got a 4 agility and 2 piloting. My squadron is 5 starfighter pilots (agility 3, group skill 4). If everybody is attacking, it should be four yellow plus any effects from manuevers or formations. Right?

That is one possibility. I just wish we had more official guidance on the issue. Another possibility is that both minions and leaders get actions in their initiative slot, but they share maneuvers. I would think that, somehow, the leader action ought to boost what the squad is doing, or vice-versa.

then there's also the "form on me" talent under squadron leader. So... you can be in a squadron now and also add other people? So the limit on 11 minions isn't a limit if you have that talent?

then there's also the "form on me" talent under squadron leader. So... you can be in a squadron now and also add other people? So the limit on 11 minions isn't a limit if you have that talent?

I think that would be to add more if you have less than 11

then there's also the "form on me" talent under squadron leader. So... you can be in a squadron now and also add other people? So the limit on 11 minions isn't a limit if you have that talent?

I don't see where the overlap is. You're in a squadron, which is a specific term in the GM screen rules. The people you cover in the form on me talent are completely different.

Honestly, I don't see the rules in the GM screen to be ambiguous - my reading is that minions lose their turn in combat and thus lose any action they might have taken. If it wasn't this way, they whole point of speeding up combat would be lost.

Honestly, I don't see the rules in the GM screen to be ambiguous - my reading is that minions lose their turn in combat and thus lose any action they might have taken. If it wasn't this way, they whole point of speeding up combat would be lost.

Thats a reasonable way to read the rules. I am just struggling to see how doing so is helpful, other than creating some human shielding for the PC and/or "major" NPC. It actually reduces the available firepower once the squad is formed.

those are reasonable interpretations, but still not RAW.

and yeah I read over the rules last night. seems like you just attack by yourself and add whatever you can add from your formation... your minions get to go separately if you get a triumph result on Leadership.

Thats a reasonable way to read the rules. I am just struggling to see how doing so is helpful, other than creating some human shielding for the PC and/or "major" NPC. It actually reduces the available firepower once the squad is formed.

I think the human shield is by far the most important part of the rule - imo it's mandatory for the Snubfighter game as there is almost no way to increase defence.

...so what, then, do you-all make of the effect for the "Close" formation: "Add [boost] to any attack made by the squad while in this formation"? (emphasis mine)

This would seem to assume the squad (not the character) can somehow attack. How is that done? Or is this just talking about a character's attack roll?

Also...suppose I have a character with low combat stats, but high leadership/command stats. She carries a blaster pistol, but commands minions with Heavy skill and blaster rifles. I would think the benefit of forming a squad for her would be that she can sit back and boost the squad's abilities using leadership and command talents while the squad does the heavy lifting. But how would that work?

Again, I'm not trying to be overly critical of the rules as written, nor even argumentative with the rest of you. I am also not against having open/flexible rules. I am just having a lot of trouble understanding how this works.

Presumably the bonus to attack would apply to when the minion squad attacks if you've spent a triumph.

You're right that the situation with leading a heavy weapon team doesn't work - perhaps asking your GM to extend the mission specialist formation to other skills would work?

Though really, I'm not sure that the rules are intended specifically for leader type characters. It feels more they are for everyone - each PC picks up a squad of minions who are similar to themselves.

I am thinking that, until we (hopefully) get some official rules clarification, my house rule will be this: a squad or squadron's "action" can be comprised of either (a) an action by the squad leader per the normal rules (including an attack) or (b) an attack by the squad or squadron using the minion rules (and keeping in mind that the leader's available skills and/or higher attribute may affect the way the dice pool is calculated).

Thoughts?

Seems ok to me, but I'd be wary of combining minion rules with higher PC stats - that could create insane dice pools.

Give me until Tuesday, and I'll post a nice long scenario with them in use that covers a variety of situations.

I'd be wary of combining minion rules with higher PC stats - that could create insane dice pools.

Good point. Here's version 2:

A squad or squadron's action can be comprised of either (a) an action by the squad leader per the normal rules (including an attack) or (b) an attack by the squad or squadron using the minion rules. When attacking using the minion rules, the dice pool may be upgraded one additional time if (a) the PC has the relevant skill, and that skill is higher than Rank 1 or (b) the PC's applicable attribute is higher than that of the minions.

Give me until Tuesday, and I'll post a nice long scenario with them in use that covers a variety of situations.

Yes! Thanks, Keith.

I'm also looking forward to that scenario.

this caught my eye.

Also...suppose I have a character with low combat stats, but high leadership/command stats. She carries a blaster pistol, but commands minions with Heavy skill and blaster rifles. I would think the benefit of forming a squad for her would be that she can sit back and boost the squad's abilities using leadership and command talents while the squad does the heavy lifting. But how would that work?

I specifically wanted to run a battle where the PCs and their light freighter lead a Y-Wing Group on an attack run. The star fighters have proton torpedos and the freighter doesn't. I hope there's a way to just tell your missile packing minions, "follow me and fire on target. I don't have any torpedoes after all."

Baron, for these sorts of situations, there are a number of buffing talents already in the game. I would create those scenarios by keeping the minion group a separate entity from the squad or squadron. The game already covers this sort of scenario pretty well as it is.

Wow, so you can't actually have a ship like the Falcon lead fighters like in Return of the Jedi? Well, you can but those fighters can't use their weapons? Ouch.

Or like the example I quoted; I've got a pistol and they've got rifles. Everybody has to run around with me in a squad just holding their rifles and not shooting?

They can do those things, these rules just wouldn't be what you'd use to accomplish that. The squad and squadron rules are designed to provide survivability for PCs and key NPCs during large scale combat, and provide some interesting tactical options. They are not designed as a way to max out damage potential, or designed to replace the things that tacticians and other inspirational/buff classes can do. You can narratively be in a squad or squadron without necessarily using the squad or squadron rules.