I have a question on overlap in deployment. What I mean by that is: is there anything which specifically prohibits an enemy player from deploying his models in such a way that their bases would touch your models? (or their own for that matter)

Context: My friend and I are playing throug the Tantive IV campaign. I won the first game and then lost the next 2 missions (i got my ass handed to me; it wasn't even close). I'm determined to finish the 4th match with honor and dignity (ie, win)

So, I'm considering all approaches and strategies. One of the strategies I was considering was to deploy a GR-75 (huge ship) right on top of one of his deployment "Scope Tokens", so that he could not use it. Or at least, when he brought his models onto the board using that scope token, they would be overlapping the base of the huge ship. A look at the rules, though, seems to indicate this is neither prohibited, nor, for that matter, does it really do anything, since you don't determine huge ship overlap at the point models are brought on the board, only after activation.

Any thoughts on this?

For that matter, does anyone have any ideas how to win/survive the last mission of the Tantive IV campaign? Should I be going for a full-kill build or a get-the-hell-off-the-map list? I was originally going to try to outrun him and get off the map, but the fastest you can do it in is 9 moves. That might not be fast enough to avoid getting killed, especially when you're only generating 2 energy per round.

Again a post confusing OVERLAPPING and Touching.

The rules for Overlapping are to prevent ships from actually overlapping.

I am not familiar with the scenarios, but you can not force your opponents ship to overlap you, but you could potentially force it to Touch you, meaning the ships won't be able to targrt each other.

Thanks for the response, Stephen, but I don't know that you quite understood my question.

Let me rephrase it:

If I deployed the GR75 in such a manner that my opponent could not deploy any of his models without overlapping or touching my GR75, is it legal for him to do so? I'm not talking about activation or executing a maneuver here, I'm talking about bringing models into play (deployment).

A close examination of the rules covers the touching/overlapping scenario, but only as a result of executing a manuever. Deployment happens independently of executing a maneuver.

Like I said, I am not familiar with hhe scenario. Clearly some special deployment is happening.

My guess is that if the scenario tequire the opponent to deploy in a way that is not possible then he can't deploy.

I don't think there's anything in the rules that actually cover this. My read would be that physically touching is acceptable - remember that ships are only touching in the rules sense if they overlapped, if you place them into contact they're not "touching". If there manages to be truly no place in the given area to deploy the ships, I'd deploy them as close as possible. Scenarios are less competitive, and parking ships in deployment zones should not be a way to auto-destroy entire waves of ships.

Thanks Buhallin. Really I was just trying to find if there was a rule that governed this. And the result, by the way, would not be to 'auto-destroy' them, since he has as many as 6 possible points of entry onto the game board. This move would just be to deny him one particular entry point so I can control the battle field and predict where he's coming on a little better.

In hindsight, though, it's not worth a 30 point model sink.

I don't think there's anything in the rules that actually cover this. My read would be that physically touching is acceptable - remember that ships are only touching in the rules sense if they overlapped, if you place them into contact they're not "touching". If there manages to be truly no place in the given area to deploy the ships, I'd deploy them as close as possible. Scenarios are less competitive, and parking ships in deployment zones should not be a way to auto-destroy entire waves of ships.

Sorry, but the only time two ships im physical contact are not considered touching is when the Inline ships ruling from the FAQ is in effect. No movement or overlapping needs to have occured. This was discussed in another thread not long ago.

Sorry, but the only time two ships im physical contact are not considered touching is when the Inline ships ruling from the FAQ is in effect. No movement or overlapping needs to have occured. This was discussed in another thread not long ago.

"touching" is a direct result of overlapping. Rulebook page 17, Plastic Bases Overlapping, last sentence in Point 1.

You have to have overlapped a ship to be in a state of touching. That condition clears when the bases are no longer in contact or you don't overlap with your movements in the following round.

The inline rule in the FAQ, page 4, states if two ships that are already touching do the same maneuvers, then they are no longer touching as they have not overlapped. That modifies the "while their bases remain touching" rule that removes the touching condition.

That condition clears when... you don't overlap with your movements in the following round.

This part is actually no longer clear. There used to be a line in the FAQ that said overlap had to occur that round, but it was removed with the release of the most recent FAQ. Granted the situations where you can remain in contact without overlapping from round to round are limited to a very specific setup of the inline situation (most of the time you'd have to move the front ship first, moving them out of contact, but if they're offset enough that the nubs are clear you could move the back ship 1 straight and exactly clear the front ship such that you're still touching) and the Shuttle's 0-speed maneuver. I'm still waiting on a response from FFG about the 0-speed maneuver, unless anyone else already has a response I haven't seen.

Technically two ships coukd end up touching without having overlapped. Unlikely but not impossible.

If a TIE fighter moves 2 forward and was touching an x-wing to the rear, and the x-wing does the same yhey are touching but didn't overlap. If it was a falcon moving 1 instead, tge same would be true.

The x-wing would be subject to the Inline ships ruling, and get to shoot. The falcon would not.

Sergovan if what you state was true the Inline ships ruling would not make sense since this would then be true for all ships.

Technically two ships coukd end up touching without having overlapped. Unlikely but not impossible.

If a TIE fighter moves 2 forward and was touching an x-wing to the rear, and the x-wing does the same yhey are touching but didn't overlap. If it was a falcon moving 1 instead, tge same would be true.

The x-wing would be subject to the Inline ships ruling, and get to shoot. The falcon would not.

Sergovan if what you state was true the Inline ships ruling would not make sense since this would then be true for all ships.

Not by the rule on page 17.

If you did not overlap, you did not move back along the template till you touch, which is where touching comes into effect.

Without that you have cases where tie fighters are barrel rolling to touch biggs and make him an invalid target so that another target can be shot at (which is not a legal move).

@ DBmeboy

Your bases have to be in a state of no contact or in line physically adjacent to clear off the touching restriction. The FAQ rule on inline movement is there so that without an overlapp one or more ships could fire as the touching restriction will be lifted.

The zero move from Lambda's, however, is still up in the air.

Please post the response you get from Frank. I'm curious to know how he will clear it up.

Sergovan the rules doesn't say you have to have moved back along the tempkate ftom a potential overlap in order to touch another base.

The example I outline with the falcon clearly proves that you can end up touching without having overlapped.

And the FAQ for Inline ships clearly specify in which case the ships can be physically touching but count as not touching. This also implies that all other situations do count as touching. Even though no overlapping caused a ship to move back along the template.

And touching ships can't target each other.

@ dbmeboy

Please post the response you get from Frank. I'm curious to know how he will clear it up.

I will as soon as I get it...

Sergovan the rules doesn't say you have to have moved back along the tempkate ftom a potential overlap in order to touch another base.

Yes, it does. Page 17, Plastic Bases Overlapping, Point 1. RTFM

"From the opposite end of the template, move the active ship backward along the top of the template until it no longer overlaps another ship. While moving the ship, adjust is so that the template remains centered between both sets of guides on the ships base. Place the ship so that the bases of both ships are touching".

The example I outline with the falcon clearly proves that you can end up touching without having overlapped.

And the FAQ for Inline ships clearly specify in which case the ships can be physically touching but count as not touching. This also implies that all other situations do count as touching. Even though no overlapping caused a ship to move back along the template.

And touching ships can't target each other.

The FAQ page 4 is titled "Overlapping Inline Ships"

What this is saying is that if you overlapped a ship the previous turn, and are touching their base when you start the round, if you happen to maneuver the same as the other ship, but do not overlap, yet your base is still in contact, you are considered to be physically adjacent (NOT touching). Therefore, you can target each other.

Overlap = touching every time it happens. If you did not overlap with your maneuver, you are not touching.

(but the lambda 0 move is still the wildcard awaiting further explanation).

So:

No barrel roll in to a touch

No boosting in to a touch

No Decloaking into a touch

Technically two ships coukd end up touching without having overlapped. Unlikely but not impossible.

Not even that unlikely, or that uncommon. The easiest (and common) way for this to happen is as the result of a barrel roll. Since you can move the ship in a pretty wide range forward or backward, it's pretty easy for two ships to end up touching without overlapping, and hence not "touching".

On the broader issue, Sergovan is correct - if two ships didn't overlap at some point to get to their current positions, they aren't considered "touching" as far as the rules are concerned.

That is where we are not in agreement. Whike we can easily agree you end up touching after you woukd have overlapped, we are not agreeing on the reverse, that yiy can end up touching without overlapping.

The only situation mentioned in the rules or FAQ where being physically ajecent is not considered touching is when Overlapping inline ships is in effect.

The fact that that section is specifically refering to ship size and same speed also implies that it does not apply to irher situations

Otherwise it shoukd have been worded much broader.