Dear designers, FFG,

I am asking you to reconsider the errata considering Master of Lore, a Lore sphere ally originally designed for Heirs of Númenor. As a veteran player (since the core set), it would be hard for me to count the number of cards that have higher effect on the game than this one. Indeed it is very difficult to understand that Unexpected Courage or Gandalf from the core set still reign free whilst this scholar is getting the shaft.

I believe the errata was a reaction to the Master of Lore - Horn of Gondor - Erebor Hammersmith - Borne Aloft combo. Out of curiosity I have tried such a deck at the time and I can honestly say it was the most tedious, least thematic deck with a low chance of beating the harder quests. The combo of four different cards not only takes 12 slots of your deck right away but since you want to have it working as early as possible, more cards fuel that engine and do nothing else. Any quest that is tough on players from the start shall dismantle this naiveté. And the more you invest into setting the combo up, the less reward you get once it is set -- you still need resources to pay for the cards, and even Protector of Lórien cannot help you with all your accumulated trouble; and it would be (again) easier to put Will of the West on the black list.

More so, if the loop is needed to be stopped no matter what, then Master of Lore should probably be the last to be punished. Why not simply give Erebor Hammersmith limit once per round -- a limit we can see on the new events like Swift and Silent, and a limit which will otherwise not harm the Dwarven ally at all.

It seems obvious the designers have been careful with the errata and in general used it only against the obvious offenders like the ever greedy Zigil Miner. But, for some reason, Master of Lore is the one shiny exception to the trend, and his errata version is hardly usable.

I am hoping other players will support this notion, which could result in a simple thing: we all shall have one more card to consider when building a deck, especially the mono-Lore which was one of the pursuits of the Against the Shadow cycle at the beginning of which Master of Lore arrived.

Thanks for reading!

You're mistaken if you think that someone from designers would read this, respond to this or react to this.

It is quite certain designers do read the boards. (Ever bothered sliding down the page?) It is also certain they react to some of the posts, with some errata coming directly from the boards, including Master of Lore, likely. My friend has gotten personal responses from them based on the boards, and some were addressed in either the FAQ or Second Breakfast articles. That still does not mean my particular trial will have any success, if your ignorant response is not enough. I did want reaction from the players, mainly, however. I would prefer something slightly more up to the point but that's alright.

I believe the errata was a reaction to the Master of Lore - Horn of Gondor - Erebor Hammersmith - Borne Aloft combo. Out of curiosity I have tried such a deck at the time and I can honestly say it was the most tedious, least thematic deck with a low chance of beating the harder quests. The combo of four different cards not only takes 12 slots of your deck right away but since you want to have it working as early as possible, more cards fuel that engine and do nothing else. Any quest that is tough on players from the start shall dismantle this naiveté. And the more you invest into setting the combo up, the less reward you get once it is set -- you still need resources to pay for the cards, and even Protector of Lórien cannot help you with all your accumulated trouble; and it would be (again) easier to put Will of the West on the black list.

More so, if the loop is needed to be stopped no matter what, then Master of Lore should probably be the last to be punished. Why not simply give Erebor Hammersmith limit once per round -- a limit we can see on the new events like Swift and Silent, and a limit which will otherwise not harm the Dwarven ally at all.

We made quite some deck back then, and we had no problem at all pulling it before turn 3-4 and if you pull it out, well, it was game over for the encounter deck.

You also forgot Durin's Legacy. Maybe that's why you had a hard time ?

This is not about being anti-climatic or tedious, it is because FFG release the 2 vs 2 format. You can't allow a team to lock a turn, that is the basic of a ban list in all card game.

I assure that when you have this 5 cards in play, and it is not that hard, you can do whatever the hell you want.

Here's my first test, not optimal, not using Raven of the Mountain, and still able to pull the combo early enough (I may have forgotten ressource generation in my list...). I have no doubt some deck can pull the combo turn 1 or 2 now, with all those Doomed cards.

That being said : yeah, master of lore is totally the least problem. Legacy of Durin is the best card draw engine existing, Horn of Gondor is quite powerful too, Born Aloft is totally broken in combo, and Erebor Hammersmith is the best stats over cost ally with a super ability. Master of Lore is more like Born Aloft, not strong enough alone.

The combo your talking about is - Durin's Legacy / Master of Lore / Hammersmith / Born Aloft. It was a ok combo

Still the Master of Lore is the obvious choice to errata, even if this combo didn't exist. The tap effect producing a constant "always on" pr "permanent effect" to the end of the phase is, of course a mistake. This effect of dropping the cost for the entire phase to ALL lore cards is just a massive problem waiting to happen, if not this comnbo, the next.

It is quite certain designers do read the boards. (Ever bothered sliding down the page?) It is also certain they react to some of the posts, with some errata coming directly from the boards, including Master of Lore, likely. My friend has gotten personal responses from them based on the boards, and some were addressed in either the FAQ or Second Breakfast articles. That still does not mean my particular trial will have any success, if your ignorant response is not enough. I did want reaction from the players, mainly, however. I would prefer something slightly more up to the point but that's alright.

"oh my feelings got hurt, QQ"

The combo your talking about is - Durin's Legacy / Master of Lore / Hammersmith / Born Aloft. It was a ok combo

Still the Master of Lore is the obvious choice to errata, even if this combo didn't exist. The tap effect producing a constant "always on" pr "permanent effect" to the end of the phase is, of course a mistake. This effect of dropping the cost for the entire phase to ALL lore cards is just a massive problem waiting to happen, if not this comnbo, the next.

Yes, but the limit to 1 was enough if not for all the other three cards. And Master of Lore was well balanced, all the three other were too powerfull.

If they just had "cost 2" in the errata of Master of Lore, I would be happy. But as it is now, it is far worth than a Ressourcefull. He can even cost 1 ! you can't use it for response, nor card that cost 0, only lore cards, and you can cumulate his effect. He also have no stat and only 1 hp. Seriously, the best would be cost 3 and add secrecy 2.

The core of all that probl is unlimited draw. Fix that and you need erattas at all. And this will happen one day.

It is quite certain designers do read the boards. (Ever bothered sliding down the page?) It is also certain they react to some of the posts, with some errata coming directly from the boards, including Master of Lore, likely. My friend has gotten personal responses from them based on the boards, and some were addressed in either the FAQ or Second Breakfast articles. That still does not mean my particular trial will have any success, if your ignorant response is not enough. I did want reaction from the players, mainly, however. I would prefer something slightly more up to the point but that's alright.

"oh my feelings got hurt, QQ"

I know it is all but pointless but this is how it goes with you, usually. Someone says something, you reply without much of a consideration, thinking the shorter the better, or the more scornful the more meaningful. But it is shite usually, then the person tells you, and you drop the argument but try to sidetrack your silly way of communication.

I am not saying all your contribution is like that. You make good points, in my opinion. But this is just sad, as you probably are.

The combo your talking about is - Durin's Legacy / Master of Lore / Hammersmith / Born Aloft. It was a ok combo

Still the Master of Lore is the obvious choice to errata, even if this combo didn't exist. The tap effect producing a constant "always on" pr "permanent effect" to the end of the phase is, of course a mistake. This effect of dropping the cost for the entire phase to ALL lore cards is just a massive problem waiting to happen, if not this comnbo, the next.

Interesting. Horn of Gondor is missing from the list above. Maybe you are right but I think both the Hammersmith and Legacy of Dúrin are up for the errata ahead of Master of Lore. I cannot see how Master is so potent ante errata. I do not think it is easy to always find multiple cards of one type with a higher cost than 1. And if you have your deck filled with a majority of such, and you don't get Master, then you are in trouble.

I believe the errata was a reaction to the Master of Lore - Horn of Gondor - Erebor Hammersmith - Borne Aloft combo. Out of curiosity I have tried such a deck at the time and I can honestly say it was the most tedious, least thematic deck with a low chance of beating the harder quests. The combo of four different cards not only takes 12 slots of your deck right away but since you want to have it working as early as possible, more cards fuel that engine and do nothing else. Any quest that is tough on players from the start shall dismantle this naiveté. And the more you invest into setting the combo up, the less reward you get once it is set -- you still need resources to pay for the cards, and even Protector of Lórien cannot help you with all your accumulated trouble; and it would be (again) easier to put Will of the West on the black list.

More so, if the loop is needed to be stopped no matter what, then Master of Lore should probably be the last to be punished. Why not simply give Erebor Hammersmith limit once per round -- a limit we can see on the new events like Swift and Silent, and a limit which will otherwise not harm the Dwarven ally at all.

We made quite some deck back then, and we had no problem at all pulling it before turn 3-4 and if you pull it out, well, it was game over for the encounter deck.

You also forgot Durin's Legacy. Maybe that's why you had a hard time ?

This is not about being anti-climatic or tedious, it is because FFG release the 2 vs 2 format. You can't allow a team to lock a turn, that is the basic of a ban list in all card game.

I assure that when you have this 5 cards in play, and it is not that hard, you can do whatever the hell you want.

Here's my first test, not optimal, not using Raven of the Mountain, and still able to pull the combo early enough (I may have forgotten ressource generation in my list...). I have no doubt some deck can pull the combo turn 1 or 2 now, with all those Doomed cards.

Deck title

Heroes

• Ori The Hobbit - Over Hill and Under Hill 4

• Beravor Core Set 12

• Bilbo Baggins The Hunt for Gollum 1

Deck

1x Snowbourn Scout (Core Set 16)

3x Erebor Record Keeper (Khazad-dûm 11)

3x Erebor Hammersmith (Core Set 59)

1x Warden of Healing (The Long Dark 83)

1x • Gléowine (Core Set 62)

1x Master of the Forge (Shadow and Flame 134)

3x Rivendell Minstrel (The Hunt for Gollum 8)

1x Miner of the Iron Hills (Core Set 61)

1x • Gandalf (Core Set 73)

1x • Horn of Gondor (Core Set 42)

3x Born Aloft (Conflict at the Carrock 29)

3x Love of Tales (The Long Dark 85)

3x • Legacy of Durin (The Watcher in the Water 61)

1x A Burning Brand (Conflict at the Carrock 33)

3x Good Meal (The Redhorn Gate 10)

2x Song of Battle (The Dead Marshes 104)

1x Song of Travel (The Hills of Emyn Muil 81)

1x Song of Kings (The Hunt for Gollum 10)

1x Grim Resolve (Core Set 25)

2x Will of the West (Core Set 49)

3x Peace, and Thought (Shadow and Flame 135)

2x Lórien's Wealth (Core Set 64)

1x Out of the Wild (Road to Rivendell 36)

1x Risk Some Light (Shadow and Flame 136)

3x Daeron's Runes (Foundations of Stone 108)

1x The End Comes (Road to Rivendell 37)

3x Master of Lore (Heirs of Númenor 16)

Total 50

That being said : yeah, master of lore is totally the least problem. Legacy of Durin is the best card draw engine existing, Horn of Gondor is quite powerful too, Born Aloft is totally broken in combo, and Erebor Hammersmith is the best stats over cost ally with a super ability. Master of Lore is more like Born Aloft, not strong enough alone.

I did forgot Legacy in my list above, not in the deck I played.

I really like your post overall but are you really trying to say you win with this deck? I mean, take it against Massing at Osgiliath, for instance, you are probably dead in two rounds. You cannot quest quickly, defend or attack, what are you doing about the enemies that run at you? And even if you pull the combo with the deck, how are you ever going to kill any enemies?

I believe Tactics Boromir was the best choice for this type of deck but still...

The combo your talking about is - Durin's Legacy / Master of Lore / Hammersmith / Born Aloft. It was a ok combo

Still the Master of Lore is the obvious choice to errata, even if this combo didn't exist. The tap effect producing a constant "always on" pr "permanent effect" to the end of the phase is, of course a mistake. This effect of dropping the cost for the entire phase to ALL lore cards is just a massive problem waiting to happen, if not this comnbo, the next.

Yes, but the limit to 1 was enough if not for all the other three cards. And Master of Lore was well balanced, all the three other were too powerfull.

If they just had "cost 2" in the errata of Master of Lore, I would be happy. But as it is now, it is far worth than a Ressourcefull. He can even cost 1 ! you can't use it for response, nor card that cost 0, only lore cards, and you can cumulate his effect. He also have no stat and only 1 hp. Seriously, the best would be cost 3 and add secrecy 2.

Again, I agree. The errata plus cost 2 would be fine. That is the problem with some of the errata, it only goes one way: against the players. I would welcome if there came a consolation, together with the shaft.

I really like your post overall but are you really trying to say you win with this deck? I mean, take it against Massing at Osgiliath, for instance, you are probably dead in two rounds. You cannot quest quickly, defend or attack, what are you doing about the enemies that run at you? And even if you pull the combo with the deck, how are you ever going to kill any enemies?

I believe Tactics Boromir was the best choice for this type of deck but still...

That's silly.

Usually, the basic when you pull out the fifth combo card is that you enter the infinite loop that allow you to play whatever you want, drop in ressource acceleration cards that I forgot in my decklist and you have unlimited card draw and ressource.

What to do from this is simple :

Grim resolve for unlimited untap.

Gandalf + born aloft to unlimited indirect damage and threat reduction. (you can separate both with hands / dunhere-quick strike for immunity ! with galadrim's greeting or elrond counsil etc...)

Raven of the misty mountain for unlimited progress token.

Snowborn scout or the like for unlimited progress token on location.

The end comes + Out of the wild to depleted completly the encounter deck.

The things remaining is quite few : immune location you need to travel to, and quest you need to wait for a certain phase.

For Massing, just survive first turn, even take undeffended attack and lose 2 hero if needed, all you need is those 5 cards in play, even if your last hero as still 1 hit point, you are fine. It will be harder for massing, but if redo an optimal deck, I'm sure I can win this easily by turn 3 in 95% case. And tanking 2 turn is quite doable.

It is quite certain designers do read the boards. (Ever bothered sliding down the page?) It is also certain they react to some of the posts, with some errata coming directly from the boards, including Master of Lore, likely. My friend has gotten personal responses from them based on the boards, and some were addressed in either the FAQ or Second Breakfast articles. That still does not mean my particular trial will have any success, if your ignorant response is not enough. I did want reaction from the players, mainly, however. I would prefer something slightly more up to the point but that's alright.

"oh my feelings got hurt, QQ"

I know it is all but pointless but this is how it goes with you, usually. Someone says something, you reply without much of a consideration, thinking the shorter the better, or the more scornful the more meaningful. But it is shite usually, then the person tells you, and you drop the argument but try to sidetrack your silly way of communication.

I am not saying all your contribution is like that. You make good points, in my opinion. But this is just sad, as you probably are.

I would take this post seriously if not for those petty concealed attempts to insult me. And all just because we communicate in the different way and you don't like it, though I meant no offense with my original post.

Anna you funny…just funny…… They way how you think is funny on my opinion. Anyway Boored tell something or is get bored here again!!!

Just kidding….

I appreciate the thread and do think that the designers read these forums. I was really excited about Master of Lore when it first came out, but the errata made it totally unplayable. I wonder if they could just add something to the Master of Lore card like "Cannot be used on any card more than once per round." That should prevent any infinite combos.

Anyway Boored tell something or is get bored here again!!!

HEY!

Interesting. Horn of Gondor is missing from the list above.

Um yeah.. sorry Your correct. The "combo" works with out that, but the Horn is what makes it infinite and broken.

Maybe you are right but I think both the Hammersmith and Legacy of Dúrin are up for the errata ahead of Master of Lore. I cannot see how Master is so potent ante errata. I do not think it is easy to always find multiple cards of one type with a higher cost than 1. And if you have your deck filled with a majority of such, and you don't get Master, then you are in trouble.

I haven't gone though the cards to check, but are there any other cards in the game that can be actives by the player which force a peppermint effect for a phase or round that is not an event? I can not really think of any.

The crux of it for me is that Master of Lore can always be abused. If not this combo, then one in the future. Remember MoL is not unique. So you can look at 4 drops for 1 cred. plus cards for the entire phase? This is open for abuse, as we have already seen. There will always be combos that can happen with this effect.

I feel this errata is not about the combo at all, I think it is simply a correction as the card doesn't function in the way it should relative to the rest of the set. It is simply a printing or design error that needed to be fixed.

And if you have your deck filled with a majority of such, and you don't get Master, then you are in trouble.

Well this is true with any "combo" deck. The very definition of them is that if the combo doesn't go off then they usually fail miserably. The errata is for how much easy the combo is to fire. In competitive games when facing a conbo deck all you need to do is disrupt the combo enablers. The more powerful the conmbo the less parts it has and the quicker it can run.

For Massing, just survive first turn, even take undeffended attack and lose 2 hero if needed, all you need is those 5 cards in play, even if your last hero as still 1 hit point, you are fine. It will be harder for massing, but if redo an optimal deck, I'm sure I can win this easily by turn 3 in 95% case. And tanking 2 turn is quite doable.

Same, run Gimli. Do a undefended vs the wolf. There is a strong chance it will survive, stronger than you might think (check shadow effects), this places enough damage on him to instantly kill that same wolf that combat turn.

This is a good example of a quest that scales badly. It is harder wioth more players than solo, when it really should be harder solo imo.

It is quite certain designers do read the boards. (Ever bothered sliding down the page?) It is also certain they react to some of the posts, with some errata coming directly from the boards, including Master of Lore, likely. My friend has gotten personal responses from them based on the boards, and some were addressed in either the FAQ or Second Breakfast articles. That still does not mean my particular trial will have any success, if your ignorant response is not enough. I did want reaction from the players, mainly, however. I would prefer something slightly more up to the point but that's alright.

"oh my feelings got hurt, QQ"

I know it is all but pointless but this is how it goes with you, usually. Someone says something, you reply without much of a consideration, thinking the shorter the better, or the more scornful the more meaningful. But it is shite usually, then the person tells you, and you drop the argument but try to sidetrack your silly way of communication.

I am not saying all your contribution is like that. You make good points, in my opinion. But this is just sad, as you probably are.

I would take this post seriously if not for those petty concealed attempts to insult me. And all just because we communicate in the different way and you don't like it, though I meant no offense with my original post.

So it was your feelings that got hurt, as you point out. You would take it seriously otherwise. And you get hurt really easily because there was no insult concealed. I just said your post was ignorant which it obviously was, you stated something without arguments and totally contradictory to reality. And it was just that ONE word that you suddenly staple "petty insults". Boy your feelings really get hurt easily.

Anna you funny…just funny…… They way how you think is funny on my opinion. Anyway Boored tell something or is get bored here again!!!

Just kidding….

Dear Glaurung, one more post for you. It would be good if you learned English just a little. Great imagination is needed to decipher your mumblings in general (like the above) but sometimes it just gets too heavy.

Your way of thinking and communication is very original. Like now, you probably find it important to staple people funny or not. Well, I do not think you are funny. You are pretty boring actually. You are a definition of a broken record. You repeat stuff all the time since the day 1 here, thinking people will start listening (or even watching your videos of the game which you try to advertise whenever possible without much success).

It is quite certain designers do read the boards. (Ever bothered sliding down the page?) It is also certain they react to some of the posts, with some errata coming directly from the boards, including Master of Lore, likely. My friend has gotten personal responses from them based on the boards, and some were addressed in either the FAQ or Second Breakfast articles. That still does not mean my particular trial will have any success, if your ignorant response is not enough. I did want reaction from the players, mainly, however. I would prefer something slightly more up to the point but that's alright.

"oh my feelings got hurt, QQ"

I know it is all but pointless but this is how it goes with you, usually. Someone says something, you reply without much of a consideration, thinking the shorter the better, or the more scornful the more meaningful. But it is shite usually, then the person tells you, and you drop the argument but try to sidetrack your silly way of communication.

I am not saying all your contribution is like that. You make good points, in my opinion. But this is just sad, as you probably are.

I would take this post seriously if not for those petty concealed attempts to insult me. And all just because we communicate in the different way and you don't like it, though I meant no offense with my original post.

So it was your feelings that got hurt, as you point out. You would take it seriously otherwise. And you get hurt really easily because there was no insult concealed. I just said your post was ignorant which it obviously was, you stated something without arguments and totally contradictory to reality. And it was just that ONE word that you suddenly staple "petty insults". Boy your feelings really get hurt easily.

The fact that I can see your attempts to insult me and ignore them makes you think that my feelings got hurt?

Dam, those logics, man.

A thread intended to be read by Caleb & Co is now becoming an exemple of how Sauron is winning over the people of the forum. Did someone gave you a ring recently ?

If you really want Caleb to read something - send him an email.

Can anyone ask him if he reads this forum?