I was reading the official tournament rules and I am curious...

The rules say you can't change the size or shape of a model... does that mean all the cool modified yt-1300s I've seen are illegal for tournament play? I'd like to know before I get to cutting up mine.

Per official rules, yes, those modified models are inelidgible for tournament play. Paint it all you want, leave the xacto knives in the toolbox

It's actually up to the TO if a ship is allowed or not. The rules do say that modifications to the model isn't allowed, but it also says the final decision is up to the TO.

So if you know you'll always play at a single LGS ask the TO about it, if they're cool, feel free. If they're not then don't.

If you ever play at the FFG game center, I imagine if you asked very nice and politely they would still let you use it during an event.

And it would be pretty surprising for TOs anywhere else to deny your modded stuff.

I would only expect to see the rule enforced during events where FFG representatives are present and taking photos or video.

It is worth noting that some TOs might get a bit more strict once wave 5 is out, given the similar appearance of the 1300 and 2400.

What about something as simple as filling in the battle damage or turning the turret a different direction? The let turret on my falcon came snapped off...

Again, unfortunately, according to official rules it's illegal. Most TOs I know won't care, but if there are FFG officials or photographers at the event you may be asked not to use it.

First, please note that I have never participated in a tournament, so I do not know from whence I speak ...

Having said that, this whole thread, and the tournament rule in general, has gotten me to thinking (a scary thing in of itself) ...

Assuming that you mod the hell out of one of your miniatures, but IN NO WAY change the shape, size, dimensions, etc., what the heck difference does it make? I mean, if you take an off the shelf YT-1300 and one of the ones on this site that have been modded to show engine lights, etc., if you put one on top of the other, and the mods did not change its shape in any way, then why would anyone care?

I guess I am asking for those that have participated in X-Wing tournaments (or any other miniature tournament), why is this an issue?

Just curious.

if you put one on top of the other, and the mods did not change its shape in any way, then why would anyone care?

I don't think anyone would, even the rules would allow it, because the size/shape of the model has not changed.

Notice how short and to the point the rules are for X-Wing tournament play. The rule for mods is also short and to the point. We all have look at the fantastic job members of this community have done to change things on almost all the ships. Once you open the door just a little for mods you also let in the uglies. You know, The Tie body with X wings. So rather than having a book of rules for what mods are legal and whitch ones aren't, just keep them out and keep it simple. The people who make these modifications to ships are not doing it to have a tournament piece but rather a show piece. They understand this when the project begins.

Eww .... uglies .... *shiver*

Still I wouldn't mind 90% of the Falcon mods that I've seen being run in a tournament. The only exceptions are the guys who've made the falcon look like an Outrider - once Wave 5 is out that would probably be a no-go. But still everything else "feels" fine to me.

If I were running a tournament however, I'd probably announce to the group that they shouldn't be using modded craft - and if they brought ONLY their list and zero spares - see me now and I'll try to facilitate getting you a loaner.

Do you guys consider the B-Wings that are modded to fly sideways, to be a "Shape change"? I don't, but I wonder if anyone would make that argument.

I feel that if I was a TO I would allow modded ships unless another player had an official complaint with a reason other than "I don't like it" like in some way the ship gives the player an advantage. However that is unlikely since the actual model of the ship has no bearing on the game at all other than the aesthetic look of the game. Technically you could play the game without the models and just bases...but that would be as boring as hell.

Considering everything is measured from the base, rather than the ship itself…I don’t understand why modified models aren’t allowed. I should think modification is fine as long as you can tell what ship it is (i.e., don’t glue bomber wings to a basic tie fighter and call it an Advanced)

I should think modification is fine as long as you can tell what ship it is

And how do you write rules to cover that? How do you define when a ship is so modified that a player (each of whose perceptions will differ) can no longer tell at a glance what it is supposed to represent?

Basically, you can't, and neither could FFG. So they just did a blanket rule that covers everything and then said that final judgement is up to the TO.

Annoying, but really nothing else they could do.

Oh yeah!

Where is the astromech on the e-wing?!

Behind the pilot, inside the cockpit.

There is a closeup schematic f the open cockpit floating around the internet,

If you bought your converted ship at the store you're playing a tournament in I can't see them not allowing it.

I suspect customized ships would be similar to GW and Privateer Press. If your opponent is okay with it and the TO is okay with it, then it's legal.

If it's unrecognizable and causes confusion, then it's probably not fine.

To be honest the model size should not affect gameplay. It is the base size that is the actual part of the gameplay.

To be honest the model size should not affect gameplay. It is the base size that is the actual part of the gameplay.

A rebel player has X-wings and Z-95's in a swarm coming at you, but one of his X-wings was modded so that the wings are closed. How would the argument unfold when you tried to fire on it thinking it was a Z-95 and that with 2 hull damage it should be dead.?

A YT-1300 is modded to look like the outrider and the other large ship is a YT-2400 in the squad you are battling. Do you want to ensure movement, damage and stats are correct for two different ships that look identical?

FFG got the rule right so that modding is kept to a minimum. Only paint can change. Without that rule, ships would morph into other ships to the point where you wouldn't know what had what stats between tables or you could get confused on what ship was capable of doing what. Mods would be everywhere.

I really like the work some forum members have done with their modding. I'm both envious and in awe at the same time. I just don't want the headache of tournament play where I know I'm going to get 4-5 games or more and I have to track everything, including watching what ships I'm dealing with and their abilities/maneuvers when they look like something else.

Once I get tired I'll get pissed when I make a mistake regarding that X-wing that I swore looked like a Z-95. (Wait! Its rolling 3 dice instead of 2? But I have no shields and 3 hull and took TL because I wasn't at risk of being oneshotted with 2 dice...aw crap. I would have taken a focus had I known that.)

In practice, I think this is not going to be a problem most of the time. If you have a quick chat with your opponent before play, you know exactly what ships they're running and you can make a mental note about what they look like, if any have been customized. If you have doubts at any point during play, you can look at the ship tokens or ask.

I understand the official ruling on this, but there's no reason for TOs of local events to adhere to it strictly. It can be taken on a case-by-case basis, and most of the time it'll be just fine. Until Wave V comes out, even if someone is running a YT-1300 modded to look like a 2400, I don't see any reasonable player having a problem remembering that it's a 1300.

After Wave V, though, that custom-made 2400 should be left at home on tournament day. At that point, it's either a distraction as a modded 1300 masquerading as a different legitimate ship, or it's a counterfeit 2400, and common sense would tell you to shelve it either way.

After Wave V, though, that custom-made 2400 should be left at home on tournament day. At that point, it's either a distraction as a modded 1300 masquerading as a different legitimate ship, or it's a counterfeit 2400, and common sense would tell you to shelve it either way.

Or only run it as a 2400. Common sense goes a long way when it comes to modelled ships.

I should think modification is fine as long as you can tell what ship it is

And how do you write rules to cover that? How do you define when a ship is so modified that a player (each of whose perceptions will differ) can no longer tell at a glance what it is supposed to represent?

Basically, you can't, and neither could FFG. So they just did a blanket rule that covers everything and then said that final judgement is up to the TO.

Annoying, but really nothing else they could do.

It's written right on the base, including all its stats. Heck, you can even label your modified craft with number tags to make it extra clear to your opponent which ship corresponds to which card laid out open for everyone to see on your end of the table.

I'd say the official rule exists mainly to ensure that people are actually buying the minis instead of using e.g. Micro Machines or scratch-built stuff. As long as the ship type is still recognizable you'll have no problems in my experience. I ran modified minis in most of my tournaments and never had trouble with that. Most players and TOs actually liked repainted and/or remodelled ships better. Might be different in national championships etc. but local tournaments should be mostly fine.