I'm still pretty new to the game, so I wanted to run this list by you guys. I'm thinking "competitive casual" of that means anything.

Echo

-tactician

-outmaneuver

-Stygium particle accelerator

Vader

-squad leader

2x black squadron TIE

That gives me 96 points. Echo is the main attack ship, and Vader spews his second action at whoever needs it, while staying pretty close to the black squadron.

EDIT: advanced cloaking device is also equipped to Echo

Echo needs either Advanced Cloaking Device or advanced Sensors to be workable. Otherwise you're running a rough game working out when to fire, when to cloak, and your positioning won't be nearly as good.

I don't actually own either of those.

I don't actually own either of those.

Advanced Cloaking Device comes with the Phantom...

I think it's fine for "competitive casual", except for the fact taht you are at 96pts for some reason. Go for at least 99. There is really no reason not to. Consider sticking Veteran Instincts on Echo. If you do that, it can make sense to put an Advanced Cloaking Device on Echo, though that is far from a requirement.

From a more strait up competitive perspective, Tie Advanced are pretty much bad, with Vader being the best of them, but still not "good". He can work, and can be fun in casual, but really isn't great.

Overall seems fine though, except for the total.

Echo comes with Advanced Cloaking Device, it's a Phantom exclusive card. If you don't have it, there was a mis-pack

I don't actually own either of those.

If you are playing casual there is really no reason you need the actual cards. The ships and dials, sure, but just proxy in the cards, or write down what you have on a piece of paper.

Though if you have a Phantom you DO have an Advancd Cloaking Device, because it comes with the Phantom.

I apologize, I haven't actually opened my phantom and title cards aren't up for selection on xwing-builder

I would consider that equipped then.

Just so you know, the reason Advanced Sensors is so good is that it gives you both tons of versatility in movement, and a way to do actions the turn you are doing a red.

Movement wise it means you can either do a boost/barrel roll, then decloak, then move, or a decloak, then boost/barrel roll, then move, or a decloak, then move, then boost/barrel roll. That is a LOT of different movement options you have provided yourself with.

When it comes to red you can do your action first, then do a red, then the next turn do a green, then your action. So you can do reds while not losing actions (as long as you clear them the very next turns). It's a very powerful ability on high maneuverability ships.

I know the Advanced gets a lot of hate, but I've never seen it not make it to the final few turns of the game.

I apologize, I haven't actually opened my phantom and title cards aren't up for selection on xwing-builder

I would consider that equipped then.

Keep in mind that Advanced Cloaking Device (ACD) is most useful when you shoot before your opponent, and echo is only PS 6, which is why I suggested you might want to figure a way to fit Veteran Instincts (VI) in there.

When it comes to initiative bidding, Echo has pro's and cons both to gaining and losing initiative. If you have initiative yet get to shoot first (and therefor can cloak before pilots of equal skill can shoot back), but if you don't have initiative you get to move last, which use super helpful when decloaking.

Just something to be aware of.

Advanced Cloaking Device would replace Stygian Particle Accelerator, as they are both modifications. ACD costs 4 points compared to SPA's 2, and as you're at 96 prior to the change, now you're at 98. Outmanuver on a Phantom will be amazing, especially Echo, as the ability to not be in arcs is huge. With the last two points, you'd probably want to save them for initiative.

I know the Advanced gets a lot of hate, but I've never seen it not make it to the final few turns of the game.

Definitely true, which is kind of the problem. It is very survival, but lacks any punch. Often it makes to to the end of the game purely because there is no reason to kill him. If you have the choice of shooting at a tie or an interceptor or Vader, you pretty much ALWAYS go for the tie or interceptor because there really is little reason TO take out a Tie Advanced compared to other ships.

Sure Vader has staying power, but if you get to the end of the game and it's multiple cheaper ships against Vader, typically he will lose.

He only shoots as hard as a Tie, but costs as much as two tie's. He's just not much of a threat compared to most ships.

Advanced Cloaking Device would replace Stygian Particle Accelerator, as they are both modifications. ACD costs 4 points compared to SPA's 2, and as you're at 96 prior to the change, now you're at 98. Outmanuver on a Phantom will be amazing, especially Echo, as the ability to not be in arcs is huge. With the last two points, you'd probably want to save them for initiative.

I don't know, I could go either way on initiative for Echo, except for some very specific scenarios (Falcon, for example). Which is why I would just spend those two extra points on VI. If initiative is going to matter at all, I would rather lose the initiative bid against PS 8 ships than win the initiative bid against PS 6 ships. And Echo is going to be able to chew through most ships with lower PS.

Vader's real power is as a support ship or a hyper-mobile game finisher, and in your list you are trying to use him as the former. With just two TIEs to support, however (as the Phantom will always be far away from Vader due to her movement,) he isn't really hitting his stride there. You already have a hyper-mobile game finisher in Echo, so really don't need another in Vader, so dropping him for Howlrunner and another Black Squadron TIE might be the right call to make there, and that list will put you at 99 (Howlrunner at 18, three BSP's at 14 each, and a 39 point Echo.)

I don't know, I could go either way on initiative for Echo, except for some very specific scenarios (Falcon, for example). Which is why I would just spend those two extra points on VI. If initiative is going to matter at all, I would rather lose the initiative bid against PS 8 ships than win the initiative bid against PS 6 ships. And Echo is going to be able to chew through most ships with lower PS.

I can see that, but he has outmaneuver on Echo already, so would have to drop that for vet instincts, or chain her to Vader and swap his squad leader for swarm tactics, neither of which is a good call for what the OP looks to be trying to do

I'm sort of counting on echo flanking behind ships with all those movement choices, so that firing order is less of an issue.

I'm gonna run this for a game, and then make some adjustments, specifically of vader proves useful or not.

Advanced Cloaking Device would replace Stygian Particle Accelerator, as they are both modifications. ACD costs 4 points compared to SPA's 2, and as you're at 96 prior to the change, now you're at 98. Outmanuver on a Phantom will be amazing, especially Echo, as the ability to not be in arcs is huge. With the last two points, you'd probably want to save them for initiative.

I don't know, I could go either way on initiative for Echo, except for some very specific scenarios (Falcon, for example). Which is why I would just spend those two extra points on VI. If initiative is going to matter at all, I would rather lose the initiative bid against PS 8 ships than win the initiative bid against PS 6 ships. And Echo is going to be able to chew through most ships with lower PS.

I'm trying to stay away from a tie swarm, as I don't actually have that many ships. I have the phantom, advanced, 2x TIES and imp aces

Advanced Cloaking Device would replace Stygian Particle Accelerator, as they are both modifications. ACD costs 4 points compared to SPA's 2, and as you're at 96 prior to the change, now you're at 98. Outmanuver on a Phantom will be amazing, especially Echo, as the ability to not be in arcs is huge. With the last two points, you'd probably want to save them for initiative.

I don't know, I could go either way on initiative for Echo, except for some very specific scenarios (Falcon, for example). Which is why I would just spend those two extra points on VI. If initiative is going to matter at all, I would rather lose the initiative bid against PS 8 ships than win the initiative bid against PS 6 ships. And Echo is going to be able to chew through most ships with lower PS.

Remember, Iniative is a choice now. It's always good to control that choice.

I know, but it's also a choice you pay for, and my point is that with ACD phantoms I don't feel the need to pay for the choice because I'm I get significant benefits either way. With most ships I care a lot: Wedge needs to shoot first, but Soontir Fel needs to move last. But with ACD Phantoms I could go either way, so I'll typically just use my points and let my opponent choose, unless I have something else in the list that has an initiative need.

I suppose. But your opponents Wedge needs to shoot first and your opponents Soontir Fel needs to move last, and Whisper really needs to shoot before Han Solo.

I'm trying to stay away from a tie swarm, as I don't actually have that many ships. I have the phantom, advanced, 2x TIES and imp aces

Again, I thin you list is fine and you should run it. But give Soontir Fel in an Interceptor with PTL a try some time (optionally run him with Royal Guard title and give him targeting computer or stealth device). If you like the Phantom you will probably like Soontir Fel as well. Technically he doesn't come in Imperial Aces, but again, just proxy him. He's a P 9 pilot and his ability is that he gets a focus when he gets stress.

In practice this means he does everything important Vader does, but much MUCH better. You can move, boost, then Push the Limit to barrel roll (or target lock if you have a targeting computer), which gives you a focus. So you just did THREE actions in one round. Next turn you do a green (because he is just tripping over the amount of green maneuvers he has), and you do it all over again. You don't even NEED to kiogan when you can boost and barrel roll every friggin turn.

Turr Phenrir is kind of a Soontir Fel light. He's cheaper and doesn't need (or want) PTL, so he is MUCH cheaper. But he can boost/barrel roll after he attacks, so he still gets two maneuvers every round.

And really, that's the issue with the Tie Advanced. The few things it does well, other ships do better.

Don't get me wrong, I like Vader, a lot. And I use him. He's just not that...good. He dies to the same things that kill a good interceptor (I'm looking at you Falcon), but doesn't hit as hard or move as well, while still being a premium priced ship. Which is a shame.

I suppose. But your opponents Wedge needs to shoot first and your opponents Soontir Fel needs to move last, and Whisper really needs to shoot before Han Solo.

An excellent point. Sometimes intitiative isn't about what you need, but about keeping your opponent from getting what they need.

With the list of expansions you have, try:

Echo (30 naked, 39 total)
-Tactician (2)
-Outmaneuver (3)
-Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Carnor Jax (26 naked, 32 total)

-Push the Limit (3)

-Hull Upgrade (3)

2x Black squadron TIE (14 each, 28 total)

99 points total for initiative bid. Carnor supports the TIEs by stopping focus and evade tokens, Echo is as decked out as can be. Highly reccomend picking up a Firespray next, so that you can get two Veteran Instinct and two Stealth Device cards, both of which are powerful in imperial lists

I'll definitely swap vader for jax after a game or two. You really can't do much better than interceptors on an imperial squad.

I think it's fine for "competitive casual", except for the fact taht you are at 96pts for some reason. Go for at least 99. There is really no reason not to. Consider sticking Veteran Instincts on Echo. If you do that, it can make sense to put an Advanced Cloaking Device on Echo, though that is far from a requirement.

Lower point cost means he shoots first in the event of equal pilot skills. It's in the squadron building rules. There's a lot of PS4 B-Wings in Rebel these days. (He moves first as well but it's debatable whether or not that's bad).