Awhile ago we talked about wave 4 and everyone had a list of what ships they were excited about, and thought what was going to be good vs what was going to be bad. At this point after the release what are the thoughts now.

I for one love the defender more then the phantom and I don't think the e-wing is so terrible of a ship though I really think it looks ugly now I have it in hand.

My wife thinks all the tie ships look to much of the same. She brought up the defender looks like they took the wings off the Intercepter and glued them to the defender. Which sparked a good conversation about design of ships in war and the time frame of Star Wars.

Overall I think I wave 4 is good and in the department of expectations vs reality I am not disappoint at all.

What say you forum peeps?

I am amazed by how powerful a Z95 actually is. On paper a 2/2/2/2 doesn't seem like it can accomplish much, but in reality it tends to survive 1-2 more shots than a TIE fighter will. Their dial is also nothing to scoff at, although I miss the 1 bank green of the X-wing. I haven't had an opportunity to fly the uniques yet, but the generic 95's really seem like the standout of the rebel releases this wave, IMHO.

We tried the new ships with proxies for the last couple weeks. I can't say I have strong complaints.

The TIE Phantom is utterly a glass cannon and must be flown carefully.

The TIE Defender is a great dogfighter under the correct conditions.

The Z95 is cheap and has some handy options (Blount + Ion missile, wee)

I have yet to fly an EWing but I anticipate good times.

Other than that, I get all excited for the new plastic, but once I get all the new cards and ships cataloged and put away, the excitement is suddenly over and meh

I can't say yet. I've been very dissapointed in Echo, but I'm more than well aware that Soontir. Fel taking a single crit off of 5 hits and then one shotting me(Had PS10 thanks to decoy) at range one is not statistically probable.

The Tie Defender dial and how it influences the game has been my most pleasant surprise. It's making this rebel player consider swapping sides.

I still can't work out how to build an effective E-Wing list and is therefore my biggest disappointment.

I really like the looks of the E-wing!

I have only played one game with all the Wave 4 ships so it is too early for me to say pros and cons.

My opponent flew 2 Z95s and a E-Wing against my Interceptor, Phantom and Defender.. And he rolled bbad like real bad the first shooting round. He had 3 range 2 attacks on me and I had 1 range 3 attack against him! And he only manage to get one shield out of my Defender..

It could have been a totaly different game, cause he used Missiles that all was evaded by me exept 1 hit as I said above..

Ill say that I am really happy with the E-wings. I still think they are probably 2-3 pts too expensive but they still perform admirably. I really like how the rebels finally have an option that is excellent when flown thoughtfully, and good the rest of the time.

I kind of think of the E-wing as a B-wing where movement matters lol.

Now the empire is my faction of choice now and forever, and the phantom and defender have proven to be really fun additions to the game.

My only complaint is with the looks of the defender... It just looks kinda stubby. I think the wings should have been a little bit longer, at least to make the overall length match that of a phantom or xwing,OR I guess it would have made it look longer to make the wings closer to the cockpit sphere.

Ill say that I am really happy with the E-wings. I still think they are probably 2-3 pts too expensive but they still perform admirably. I really like how the rebels finally have an option that is excellent when flown thoughtfully, and good the rest of the time.

I kind of think of the E-wing as a B-wing where movement matters lol.

Now the empire is my faction of choice now and forever, and the phantom and defender have proven to be really fun additions to the game.

My only complaint is with the looks of the defender... It just looks kinda stubby. I think the wings should have been a little bit longer, at least to make the overall length match that of a phantom or xwing,OR I guess it would have made it look longer to make the wings closer to the cockpit sphere.

Eh? I think the Tie Defender is the best looking ship they've made to date.

I have only been playing with the Phantom that I won at Imdaar and it's pretty **** powerful or maybe I just fly it well. Regardless, have yet to lose with it in a list, probably about a dozen games including a weekend tournament. They are just nasty and with the crew and systems slot, you can amp them up for defense to make them a little more mistake proof. Make no mistakes, though, and they are punishing, and either take a ton of fire off the rest of your squad (letting them mop up) or drive them away from the Phantom (letting it run about willy nilly and dealing massive damage). It will absolutely get adjusted to and people who don't figure out the movement will never fly it well or fly competitely against a well-flown one, but I don't think it will be game-breaking as some believe. People just need time to adjust, learn tactics, and integrate anti-Phantom safeguards into otherwise normal lists.

My buddy won the E-Wing and I also saw Corran Horn played extensively this weekend at the tourney, but I can't say I'm that impressed with it yet, at least not for the price. I'll need to run it myself for awhile to judge, but it might be at that level where it doesn't quite make up its points yet for me.

No experience with the Defender or Z-95, though looking forward to both. The E-Wing and Defender both look pretty silly, while the Phantom is the second coolest ship to the Interceptor in my eyes.

I wish they had gone with the longer-body Defender model from the sim. I agree that the three Interceptor struts isn't all that impressive, at least in the sim with the heftier model you can believe this is a monster TIE.

In spite of that it's still beautiful (if stubby), and it's been a marvel on the table in both games I've run with it and games I've seen others playing with it. There are some consigning it to the shelf before it's even been in the community for a week, I think that opinion is premature.

It helps to remember the defender is 1/275 while all other ships are 1/270, meaning that it should be a smidge bigger than it actually is

@Cubanboy ...

I, quite frankly, am amazed that anything that came in Wave 4, even if it was made of gold and diamonds, could possibly meet the excitement expectations that you personally set with all of your posts ...

Just kidding ... I am a big fan of your enthusiasm !

I am amazed by how powerful a Z95 actually is. On paper a 2/2/2/2 doesn't seem like it can accomplish much, but in reality it tends to survive 1-2 more shots than a TIE fighter will. Their dial is also nothing to scoff at, although I miss the 1 bank green of the X-wing. I haven't had an opportunity to fly the uniques yet, but the generic 95's really seem like the standout of the rebel releases this wave, IMHO.

I have been saying for a while, based on MathWing, that the Z-95 is actually a hair more durable than a TIE Fighter. Given that it also has +1 PS at the same cost, it is an absolutely fantastic value.

I am amazed by how powerful a Z95 actually is. On paper a 2/2/2/2 doesn't seem like it can accomplish much, but in reality it tends to survive 1-2 more shots than a TIE fighter will. Their dial is also nothing to scoff at, although I miss the 1 bank green of the X-wing. I haven't had an opportunity to fly the uniques yet, but the generic 95's really seem like the standout of the rebel releases this wave, IMHO.

I have been saying for a while, based on MathWing, that the Z-95 is actually a hair more durable than a TIE Fighter. Given that it also has +1 PS at the same cost, it is an absolutely fantastic value.

I had one eat a range 2 shot from Wedge, a range 3 shot from Biggs, and then a range 1 shot from Wedge and still be left standing on the table for Biggs to finish off on his second shot.

I am amazed by how powerful a Z95 actually is. On paper a 2/2/2/2 doesn't seem like it can accomplish much, but in reality it tends to survive 1-2 more shots than a TIE fighter will. Their dial is also nothing to scoff at, although I miss the 1 bank green of the X-wing. I haven't had an opportunity to fly the uniques yet, but the generic 95's really seem like the standout of the rebel releases this wave, IMHO.

I have been saying for a while, based on MathWing, that the Z-95 is actually a hair more durable than a TIE Fighter. Given that it also has +1 PS at the same cost, it is an absolutely fantastic value.

I had one eat a range 2 shot from Wedge, a range 3 shot from Biggs, and then a range 1 shot from Wedge and still be left standing on the table for Biggs to finish off on his second shot.

That sounds like a cockroach that just won't die.

I am amazed by how powerful a Z95 actually is. On paper a 2/2/2/2 doesn't seem like it can accomplish much, but in reality it tends to survive 1-2 more shots than a TIE fighter will. Their dial is also nothing to scoff at, although I miss the 1 bank green of the X-wing. I haven't had an opportunity to fly the uniques yet, but the generic 95's really seem like the standout of the rebel releases this wave, IMHO.

I have been saying for a while, based on MathWing, that the Z-95 is actually a hair more durable than a TIE Fighter. Given that it also has +1 PS at the same cost, it is an absolutely fantastic value.

I had one eat a range 2 shot from Wedge, a range 3 shot from Biggs, and then a range 1 shot from Wedge and still be left standing on the table for Biggs to finish off on his second shot.

I have had a similar experience with The Unkillable Lieutenant Blount.

I was really mad that game too: the rest of my squad did not a freaking thing to help that 95, and it;s sacrifice was in vain, as my opponent went on to win the match not losing a ship.

I am amazed by how powerful a Z95 actually is. On paper a 2/2/2/2 doesn't seem like it can accomplish much, but in reality it tends to survive 1-2 more shots than a TIE fighter will. Their dial is also nothing to scoff at, although I miss the 1 bank green of the X-wing. I haven't had an opportunity to fly the uniques yet, but the generic 95's really seem like the standout of the rebel releases this wave, IMHO.

I have been saying for a while, based on MathWing, that the Z-95 is actually a hair more durable than a TIE Fighter. Given that it also has +1 PS at the same cost, it is an absolutely fantastic value.

I had one eat a range 2 shot from Wedge, a range 3 shot from Biggs, and then a range 1 shot from Wedge and still be left standing on the table for Biggs to finish off on his second shot.

That sounds like a cockroach that just won't die.

I'm surprise by how useful they are too. The top 2 lists for the Singapore Regionals had Z-95 mini swarms in them.

I've found the Phantom (especially Echo) to be a bit worse than I expected. But the E-Wing...OMG AWESOME! Love that ship! My two new favorite squads are Corran+EU, FCS, Wes + VI, and Wedge; and Blackmoon + AdvS x2 and Etahn + Predator. I expected to like it, but not to like it this much.

expectation: Phantom was gonna be good.

Reality:

I think that each of the new ships have their merits and add new wrinkles to the meta, but I doubt a complete shift is coming.

That being said, I think that the Phantom is really, really good in the hands of a really, really good player. I compared it once to a lightsaber. In the hands of a Jedi, it is a deadly weapon. In the hands of anybody else, it just cuts your leg off. I put this in the same court as TIE Interceptors, probably a bit higher. You need MAD Skills to fly this correctly. I personally am doing my best to master this ship now.

The Z-95 helps to balance out the swarm aspects for the Rebels that they have lacked for 3 waves, but they lack a Howlrunner or another force multiple to make their version of a swarm as powerful as their Imperial counterparts. They will make good splash ships and we might see a shift to the 5 ship Rebel build, with 2 Zs taking the place of the old Rookie Pilot. I also like the idea of these being disposable missile catties.

The Defender and the E-Wings both fall into the same category for me, A LOT OF POINTS, and a lot of danger for even more points falling into these ships to make them do what you want them to do! In a game of this scale, I prefer quantity over quality, and I am sorry to say, the 45 point Defender or the 38-40 Point E-Wing still dies just as easy to concentrated fire. It is just a matter of numbers and dice. Yes, I can see them being useful, yes I like Corran's ability and the White K-Turn, but in the end I think it will be more points efficient to run different ships like the Firespray or the YT. Plus, those ships are FAR more durable.

In the end, I think that TIE Swarm, despite what people might think, isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Especially if you are running a 42 point Defender with HLC and EU. Sounds great until you realize 4 TIE Fighters with Howl kill it dead in one round of shooting. Plus that high point cost, low hit point ship is a juicy target on the tournament table, and priority number one for the smart player.

The 4 Ship Rebel build might see a shift to the 5 ship build, (maybe) just for more points effective play and everything else out there is a close third in terms of power in the competitive meta. Double Falcons and the Y-Wings will still be out there, more so now to help counter the Phantom Menace (nerd!). The TIE Advanced (unless in the hands of a really good player) will still see very little play. And the meta moves on...as it always has.

Wave 4 is really good, and I am really excited to try out all of my new toys at my local store. This wave added all new kinds of ships and cards and killer combos, but in terms of toppling the top two build out there, I do not see a lot of change.

I expected the z95 to be the biggest meta changer, the phantom to be the best ship overall and the Ewing to be the worst ship with the defender only a slight improvement.

Reality the z95 is the biggest meta changer, the phantom is not as great as I thought it would be and the defender is not as bad as I thought it be. Still don't like the Ewing.

The z95 seems to be the most useful ship this wave, although I expect the chardon refit to take away a bit of it's steam when it releases.

I expected the z95 to be the biggest meta changer, the phantom to be the best ship overall and the Ewing to be the worst ship with the defender only a slight improvement.

Reality the z95 is the biggest meta changer, the phantom is not as great as I thought it would be and the defender is not as bad as I thought it be. Still don't like the Ewing.

The z95 seems to be the most useful ship this wave, although I expect the chardon refit to take away a bit of it's steam when it releases.

That's almost identical to my thoughts. The only difference is that I'm considerably more impressed with the defender than I'd anticipated.

I think that each of the new ships have their merits and add new wrinkles to the meta, but I doubt a complete shift is coming.

That being said, I think that the Phantom is really, really good in the hands of a really, really good player. I compared it once to a lightsaber. In the hands of a Jedi, it is a deadly weapon. In the hands of anybody else, it just cuts your leg off. I put this in the same court as TIE Interceptors, probably a bit higher. You need MAD Skills to fly this correctly. I personally am doing my best to master this ship now.

The Z-95 helps to balance out the swarm aspects for the Rebels that they have lacked for 3 waves, but they lack a Howlrunner or another force multiple to make their version of a swarm as powerful as their Imperial counterparts. They will make good splash ships and we might see a shift to the 5 ship Rebel build, with 2 Zs taking the place of the old Rookie Pilot. I also like the idea of these being disposable missile catties.

The Defender and the E-Wings both fall into the same category for me, A LOT OF POINTS, and a lot of danger for even more points falling into these ships to make them do what you want them to do! In a game of this scale, I prefer quantity over quality, and I am sorry to say, the 45 point Defender or the 38-40 Point E-Wing still dies just as easy to concentrated fire. It is just a matter of numbers and dice. Yes, I can see them being useful, yes I like Corran's ability and the White K-Turn, but in the end I think it will be more points efficient to run different ships like the Firespray or the YT. Plus, those ships are FAR more durable.

In the end, I think that TIE Swarm, despite what people might think, isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Especially if you are running a 42 point Defender with HLC and EU. Sounds great until you realize 4 TIE Fighters with Howl kill it dead in one round of shooting. Plus that high point cost, low hit point ship is a juicy target on the tournament table, and priority number one for the smart player.

The 4 Ship Rebel build might see a shift to the 5 ship build, (maybe) just for more points effective play and everything else out there is a close third in terms of power in the competitive meta. Double Falcons and the Y-Wings will still be out there, more so now to help counter the Phantom Menace (nerd!). The TIE Advanced (unless in the hands of a really good player) will still see very little play. And the meta moves on...as it always has.

Wave 4 is really good, and I am really excited to try out all of my new toys at my local store. This wave added all new kinds of ships and cards and killer combos, but in terms of toppling the top two build out there, I do not see a lot of change.