That said, wave 4 is death to this squad, it is weak against higher PS ships with the boost action (and BR to a lesser degree). It will be toothless vs phantoms.

Post wave 4, the best use for bombers will be as TL support for Vessery, as well as howlrunner bomber swarm will still be good.

I have to disagree with this statement. Phantoms like to get in close and with the cloak, you can drop your bomb, move and guarrantee the Phantom takes damage. Drop a proton bomb and it takes a crit which affect systems

The bomber is one of the few Ties that can take a five dice attack and fight back

I've had some decent success with this build, or something close to it:

Captain Jonus + Squad Leader + Shield Upgrade

Gamma Squadron + Concussion Missiles + Munitions Failsafe
Gamma Squadron + Ion Pulse Missiles + Flechette Torpedoes + Munitions Failsafe

2x Academy Pilot

That said, in the most recent skirmish, I ditched the munitions failsafes and ion pulse missile in trade for a Concussion missile. With focus (passed along by Jonus where necessary) and Jonus in the vicinity, it's quite improbable that your missile doesn't get through at least one point of damage. But, still, those failsafes are nice and cheap, so I don't think they present much of a burden.

For now, this is my go-to list if I really want to win, but I'm getting a little bored with it, and I want to try something different. I hear interceptors are a lot of fun, but I only have one. It's fun to fly Soontir with Vader and a shuttle, but I have always been beaten with it, so.... yeah. I fly bombers when I'm serious.

Finally got around to signing up, ive been playing since day dot, and lurk the forums daily.

I made semi's at our regionals with

Jonus + Squad Leader + Seismic
Scimitar + Assaults + Clusters X 2
Scimitar + Proton + Clusters

It went very very well, so many X-Wings and B-Wings, the clusters just tear anything with 1 agi to shreds. Scrapped into the top 8 and played the one undefeated player for the day who had a tie swarm, beat him. Lost out on my next opponent (4XBwing with advs, who went on to win the night) only because i mucked up my opening moves and couldn't get the right target locks, the one time that had happened all day as well unfortunately.

Bombers are VERY viable, re-rolls make clusters work so well.

Wave 4 has changed all that though and i was very worried i may have out meta'ed... myself as well during the day but it worked out very well.

I haven't used the TIE bomber very often, but I'm giving it a chance. I plan to try this list.

Darth Vader - swarm tactics, concussion missiles.

Scimitar TIE bomber - seismic charges, proton torpedoes.

Howlrunner - determination.

Academy Pilot TIE fighter x2

Total 100.

How's this look? If I remove Howlrunner's determination, I could replace the proton torpedoes with assault missiles.

Again, I haven't tried this list yet, so feedback is useful. I only have one bomber, so don't suggest adding more. I think this thread has pretty much covered that.

Clusters sound fun until you face Swarm with 3 evade all around. Cluster list can make it to top tables, but not first place

I guess the difference in range might make the difference, but you can still make the argument that at range 1 the primary weapon may be just as good, so concussion missile should be preferred.

Clusters sound fun until you face Swarm with 3 evade all around. Cluster list can make it to top tables, but not first place

Did well against the (until then) undefeated tie swarm i faced in the quarter finals.

No, they are still rubbish. Your anecdote only indicates that they did not lose the game(s) for you. In stock situations concussion missiles deal more damage and are more likely to hit, regardless of the target's agility, and we now have much better muntions than we did in Waves 1 and 2.

http://teamcovenant....uster-missiles/

That is even before you consider Range. Concussions reach out to 3, and deny the target an extra green die when they do. Everything that can carry a missile will get 3+ dice at Range 1, and giving up your action for a second unmodified attack is not worth the 4 point tax you paid to do it. Rhymer gets around this, but he is points-inefficient on his own.

Jonus makes cluster worthwhile, yes, but he is also a giant, obvious weakness in your squad and makes your list less flexible. You are banking on getting getting the first exchange alpha strike. If the opponent prevents that or kills Jonus before the other bombers get to fire, the value of your squad has dropped disproportionately.

Some other combos like Vader with Marksmanship can also be effective, but you are piling on points to overcome a card's inefficiency, rather than taking things that are effective on their own and synergize well with others. Cluster probably expects more damage against agility 0 targets, but even when the Decimator arrives, how often will you be facing those? In a tournament setting you certainly cannot rely on that all day.

Cluster Missiles are not good on their own, and to make them good you have to give up other aspects of your squad instead of balancing or reinforcing those facets. Rubbish. And to make matters worse, what makes them rubbish is not particularly obvious, so they become a trap for casual players.

Well, that reply leaves something to be desired. The linked article doesn't take the re-rolls from Jonus into account and you said yourself that Clusters are good with Jonus in the squad. If you're flying a squad with only bombers in it there's no way around Jonus just like almost every Tie swarm includes Howlrunner. Jonus isn't a weakness and neither is Howlrunner - they're two of the biggest assets in the whole game. Getting two re-rolls is worth every point for Jonus and if a bomber squad is flown well there's almost no way that Jonus gehts annihilated in the first round of attacks. That has never happened to me in a whole bunch of games. Of course you have to fly your bombers in a close formation then but where's the problem with that?

If they carry missiles/torpedos the alpha strike should come from range 3 so you hold the guys back at first and then let loose. It's correct that most players will focus their fire on Jonus though and that's one reason why I'd recommend not to put any missiles or torpedos on him. Have a look at the squad that I posted above - experience has taught me that a combination of missiles/torpedos and bombs work best for a bomber squad. In the alpha strike you shove your missiles down the opponent's throat while he'll concentrate on Jonus. After that you don't really need Jonus anymore or at least there's no need to hold up the formation any longer. Jonus will then still have a high PS and a bomb to boot. He'll probably be hurt a bit at that point so you can have him fly set back a bit behind another bomber when you break up the formation and give away actions. And breaking it up you should do! Most players don't know how to react when they're faced with a swarm that suddenly is all over the place. The 5 k-turn is great at that point too and it's also the best time to throw out some bombs. In most of my matches my opponents then still concentrated on Jonus, since he was hurt already and also the most expensive pilot. I usually try to fly him in an unexpected way then or to use him for blocking since he will die anyway. The rest of the squad can mostly do what they want during that.

Even with Munitions Failsafe out now Jonus should be included in every bomber squad that has missiles/torpedos. That kind of payload is expensive and you have to make sure that it's worth the points. With Jonus it definitely is and the first strike can be devastating. Against ships with low agility like the Shuttle, Falcon, Y-Wings and B-Wings there's also almost nothing better than Jonus' Cluster Misilles surprise. I never use them in other squads though but saying they're rubbish gives a false impression. It's like with almost everything in this game - you have to understand what it's designed for and then use it in the correct way to have success with it. That's why it's not correct to say that you have to give up some aspects of your squad with Jonus or Clusters. If you have re-rolls for the Clusters and point them at suitable targets they're brilliant but they're rubbish in almost every other situation - that's something we can agree on. With secondary weapons in your squad there's nothing better than having Jonus along - period

5 x (Scimitar + Seismic + Flechette Torpedo)

5 x (Scimitar + Seismic + Flechette Torpedo)

Nice. Simple and resilient, with no need to swarm in formation.

5 x (Scimitar + Seismic + Flechette Torpedo)

Nice. Simple and resilient, with no need to swarm in formation.

I call it 'The DamBusters'

*snip*

With secondary weapons in your squad there's nothing better than having Jonus along - period

Not strictly true. Jonus alongside, say, Krassis with a Heavy Laser Cannon is overkill most of the time, and with a minimum build cost of 65 points, that does not leave enough room for two other ordnance carriers. Like everything else, you need to carefully consider how and when to use Jonus. Same as Howlrunner, his worth is tied to how many ships can make use of his buff. It is also worth remembering that Jonus did not exist when Cluster Missiles came out (and the linked article was written). He was added to the game for a reason.

Using Jonus with Cluster Missiles is a squad weakness in the same way that any other linchpin pilot is. If you lose him before getting the benefit, your squad suffers disproportionately. To put it another way, would you run a squad where every game you rolled a die and on a negative outcome you had to play with 95 points? Maybe that outcome is only 5% of the time or some other number accepable to your sense of risk, but when you can run another squad that is at least as effective without that potential penalty, there is not much of a comparison. Ordance builds are already running a gamble that they get the alpha exchange they want (which any decent opponent will do his best to thwart). Adding a second efficiency gamble on top of that is putting yourself double jeapordy.

I know exactly how tanky TIE Bombers can be. I ran them at Regionals and had the full spectrum of "Jonus survives to the end with 1 hull" to "Jonus dies in the first exchange". The difference was I ran Flachettes over Cluster Missiles. Two of them (or in my case one and a Seismic) cost the same as one Cluster, have the same number of dice, reach out to Range 3 and have the side benefit of stressing most targets. If the enemy successfully maneuvers to the range I do not want him, I still get 3-dice primary attacks. If the enemy successfully maneuvers to the range you do not want him with Clusters, you are forced to hold them a turn. That usually means exposing Jonus to two rounds of fire before getting off your ordnance, greatly increasing the chance of him becoming premature space dust.

Saying Cluster Missiles are rubbish is a more correct assesment than saying they are not because a corner case exists where they can be only slightly less effective than similar options. To varying degrees there *are* bad cards in this game. Everything comes down to it cost/benefit ratio, and Clusters are too much of the former and not enough of the latter. If they only cost 3, this would be a different conversation.

I am also unconvinced that Munitions Failsafe is a good buy. We will see how the meta evolves around it, so I am not writing it off just yet, but if you carry munitions, you need to do so deliberately. This means setting your ships up for target lock/focus stacks (or another similar effect), not tacking on a Proton Torpedo because you have a Rookie and four free points. You want to maximize the damage done, which in this game is the same thing as minimizing the risk of missing and by extention the value of Failsafe. The upgrade does get better the more self-propelled boom you carry, but doign so inherently inefficient due to the additional risk of losing the ship before it gets to fire everything. Encouraging people to be careless with ordnance use does not build good habits. Yes, you might occassionally save a properly deployed upgrade from an unusually good defensive roll, but there is also the chance that you take a bad shot, get a poor roll and still expend your torpedo/missile for a single damage. At the moment there are no other 1-point, non-EPT upgrades to compete with this thing, but that may not be the case forever.

The benefits of cluster over flechette is that you're making 2 attacks in a row in the same turn. With Jonus, its 4 rerolls. Cluster misses may not be the best card in the game, but I wouldn't call them rubbish.

Who knows if your double flechette bomber even lasts long enough to use them both. Flechette is a great card, but that doesn't mean clusters flat our stink.

The benefits of cluster over flechette is that you're making 2 attacks in a row in the same turn. With Jonus, its 4 rerolls. Cluster misses may not be the best card in the game, but I wouldn't call them rubbish.

Who knows if your double flechette bomber even lasts long enough to use them both. Flechette is a great card, but that doesn't mean clusters flat our stink.

I'm just gonna throw this random thought out there: Proximity Mines. I know, I know, they're dicey. But what do you think of their use in thwarting TIE phantoms? Slap one on a Scimitar and it's like an asteroid you get to drop after the game gets going. If you really want to go all in, you could have two Scimitars + Proximity Mines and close off some of their lanes in the asteroid field to prevent decloaking.

Of course, if I were running "Whisper" alongside a mini-swarm, and I saw those mines, I would probably send a poor Academy Pilot to...remove it. It would be sad, but "Whisper" can't risk that kind of additional damage.

I'm just gonna throw this random thought out there: Proximity Mines. I know, I know, they're dicey. But what do you think of their use in thwarting TIE phantoms? Slap one on a Scimitar and it's like an asteroid you get to drop after the game gets going. If you really want to go all in, you could have two Scimitars + Proximity Mines and close off some of their lanes in the asteroid field to prevent decloaking.

Of course, if I were running "Whisper" alongside a mini-swarm, and I saw those mines, I would probably send a poor Academy Pilot to...remove it. It would be sad, but "Whisper" can't risk that kind of additional damage.

Prox mines are superb on a low PS bomber, but they're truly terrible against ships with pre-maneuver mobility options.

Remember: the Phantom can decloak for 2 to either side before moving.

As Prox Mines only blow up when the enemy ship moves over them in some way, the Phantom just doesn't have the "Inevitable Doom" problem that every other ship has with them.

Hypermobile B-Wings and E-Wings also dodge the Prox mines, but that ability doesn't come standard on them, and they only barrel-roll at a 1.

Honestly, I really want to see a ship with a Bomb slot and a Systems slot.

Prox Mines would love to pally up with Enhanced Scopes and with Advanced Sensors all day and twice on sundays.

...Although you COULD get that effect with a friendly pilot with Enhanced Scopes and Squad Leader........

The benefits of cluster over flechette is that you're making 2 attacks in a row in the same turn. With Jonus, its 4 rerolls. Cluster misses may not be the best card in the game, but I wouldn't call them rubbish.

Who knows if your double flechette bomber even lasts long enough to use them both. Flechette is a great card, but that doesn't mean clusters flat our stink.

As has already been stated, that is only a benefit if you can modify both rolls. Otherwise your expected damage sucks, even against agility 1 targets. Doubling your attacks also means double the target's defense rolls. And I do not put double Flachettes on a bomber. I use a Flachette and a Seismic for an additional threat vector and area denial.

I have never seen an experienced player use Proximity Mines competetively. The problem is that they expect 1.5 hits for 50% extra points AND your action. Too much of a price to pay even before you consider the additional flexibility the enemy has in avoiding them and the risk of hitting them yourself. Proxy Mines are a poor choice in regular dogfights; they really need a different scenario to shine. In my Galactic Civil War campaign Hothie put them to great use on top of satellite tokens the enemy had to overlap to scan. I have also heard of people clogging the trench with them in Trench Run games. If you know the enemy has to go somewhere, and you can deploy the mines before lasers fly (thus using an action that otherwise would have been wasted), they are golden.

I'm just gonna throw this random thought out there: Proximity Mines. I know, I know, they're dicey. But what do you think of their use in thwarting TIE phantoms? Slap one on a Scimitar and it's like an asteroid you get to drop after the game gets going. If you really want to go all in, you could have two Scimitars + Proximity Mines and close off some of their lanes in the asteroid field to prevent decloaking.

Of course, if I were running "Whisper" alongside a mini-swarm, and I saw those mines, I would probably send a poor Academy Pilot to...remove it. It would be sad, but "Whisper" can't risk that kind of additional damage.

I also like the fact that if you are ion'd from behind you action can immediately be to drop the proxy. For a Firespray that seems like a nice little slap in the face, especially with that rear firing arc

These are all super awesome ideas. I need to buy more bombers. Too bad you can't mount a heavy Laser on one!

if you want a challenge

Darth Vader (29)
Outmaneuver (3)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Captain Jonus (22)
Ion Pulse Missiles (3)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Seismic Charges (2)
Munitions Failsafe (1)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Flechette Torpedoes (2)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Seismic Charges (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Only used it once agianst Wege Blount and 2 other Z95 and won (got lucky)

Too much payload in that list - you're not going to be able to fire two missiles in most games. Rather drop some upgrades and take another bomber.

Too much payload in that list - you're not going to be able to fire two missiles in most games. Rather drop some upgrades and take another bomber.

Maby for a bomber aces pack there could be a title card of some type that let's you half the cost of the bomber if you load it up with torps, missiles and bomb and no primary weapon

then you could take 2 range 1-2 torp/missile and 2 range 2-3 and a bomb and that's it

Or am I crazy

Marksmanship and Advanced Proton Torpedoes are OP as hell. Basically guarantees you 6 hits and a crit every time. But thats the only way to use them if you ask me.

My friend pulled the trick on me and I was utterly flabbergasted.

Nice idea about the bomber aces modification but I doubt that we'll see one soon. Munitions Failsafe obviously was meant to help with self-propelled payload and reduce the necessity of having Jonus along with payload-heavy builds.

It is possible to have success with Bombers that carry two missiles. I did the same thing at first and put one in for range 3 and another one for close combat but it's always a gamble. You will have Bombers that go down with unspent ammunition and for that it's just too expensive. It usually pays off better to just have one missile/torp. and an additional bomb. Bombs are the greatest secondary weapons imho (although they don't count as such and don't profit from Jonus) because they give you an additional attack and the damage can't be avoided. I'd love to see an upgrade card that allows Bombers to carry more than one bomb!

About the squad with Vader: might be worth considering to ditch Vader and some upgrades and put a Firespray in. It can take more fire and can also carry a bomb, missile or torpedo.

Jonus with a Defender who has an HLC is pretty fun.