I really dont know why people are so afraid of making red sharp turns when you have a white K-turn.

I would not care if the Defender had at least one green bank, but having only straight ones and the fact that I hate being stressed for more than one turn, I'll avoid the situation as much as possible.

But the real reason of Adrenaline Rush is to be able to do a sharp turn 1 and then barrel roll with a Defender once per game. I think it's worth 1 point.

The first time I'll get to try Vessery, I think I'll pair him with Night Beast+Targeting Computer. Only 17pts, gets a free focus when doing a green maneuver and shoot after Vessery. Something like:

Vessery + Engine Upgrade + Adrenaline Rush (40pts)

Night Beast + Targeting Computer (17pts)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Flechette Torpedo + Flechette Torpedo + Munitions Failsafe (21pts)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Flechette Torpedo + Flechette Torpedo + Munitions Failsafe (21pts)

Not bad, but I'd ditch the Munitions Failsafes and Adrenaline Rush for Outmanuever. You'll be lucky to get off both torpedos hit or miss, let alone need a third if you miss, and Outmanuever can really get scary.

Really not a bad idea, I tought about giving Outmaneuver to Vessery. but I suspect he will be the main target, even more so with outmaneuver, so I'm not sure how much use I would get out of Outmaneuver. Adrenaline Rush is there so I can make a red turn, like a sharp one, without getting stress and being 'forced' to do a straight maneuver next turn.

On the other hand, it's true that with the white K-turn and the fact both bombers will give stress tokens, he's bound to get behind a stressed ship for a easy kill. hmmmm....

I'm looking at it more as you've wasted two points on Munitions failsafes, or 4 points on the extra Flechette Torpedos. Pick either the flechettes or the failsafes and work in some other form of upgrade. Maybe even just bumping your bombers Pilot skill by dropping the extra flechettes.

I like Rexler. I wanted to run him with predator and a HLC with a mini swarm but it so e point too many. I'll have to give him another go.

I would say drop the HLC I think the 7pts are better used than adding a single die to Rexlar's attack. I believe the math of adding a HLC actually decreases the value of predator on him, because it increases the chance of needing to use a focus offensively by having an extra dice to roll, and rather than rerolling 1(2) out of 3 dice now you are rerolling 1(2) from 4 dice which makes that reroll a tiny bit less of a boon. IE predator's increase in attack efficiency is decreased by adding the HLC especially when cost is factored in.

A real MathWinger I am sure has some numbers to contradict me(or maybe back me up) this was purely my general impressions regarding these two upgrades

I like Rexler. I wanted to run him with predator and a HLC with a mini swarm but it so e point too many. I'll have to give him another go.

I would say drop the HLC I think the 7pts are better used than adding a single die to Rexlar's attack. I believe the math of adding a HLC actually decreases the value of predator on him, because it increases the chance of needing to use a focus offensively by having an extra dice to roll, and rather than rerolling 1(2) out of 3 dice now you are rerolling 1(2) from 4 dice which makes that reroll a tiny bit less of a boon. IE predator's increase in attack efficiency is decreased by adding the HLC especially when cost is factored in.

A real MathWinger I am sure has some numbers to contradict me(or maybe back me up) this was purely my general impressions regarding these two upgrades

HLC is worth 7 points because it adds 1 attack dice and deprives your opponent of their +1 defence dice at RB3.

I picture this ship as an excellent candidate for Engine Upgrade. Correct your angle after a K-Turn.

Ya. My best games with it have all been HLC+ EU on the basic.

I have no doubt it was good but, was it really 41 pts for a PS1 good? I have yet to receive mine and try it some.

It certainly can be worth it. It takes a little "turning your brain" to get it really going. I just find with the points left over after bumping PS in addition to those upgrades that you jus start running out of options for builds.

Bloody Flanked!

Delta+ EU + HLC

Royal Guard + PTL+hull

Backstabber

Nightbeast

As a rebel player I'm not too concerned with rexler. Without getting another focus token or ptl to get a tl, he's rolling unmodified dice. In my experience that isn't nearly as scary as someone rolling 3 with a focus to burn. If all else fails, force a bump then his ability is negated. With the turns being as bad as they are, position to block the 4k and put him down. Have yet to face vessery, so the jury is still out on him. I will say that I like the stats. 3 shields and 3 agi is very nice. I can see the generics getting some love from an imp looking for shields and a cannon and not too fond of the big based bh.

Actually I was fortunate to won one at Imdaar Alpha and I can say that the Defender is a game ender. You need to know how to fly it. Like other says, you need to rush fast for the first engagement and you need to have another small swarm threat or a couple of ships on the enemy's flank.

Once you meet the initial engagement at about range 2. The jousting game begins and you have a killer right there. I have a list that is unbeaten so far. And for people saying that EU is a must, well myself I prefer the Shield upgrade. Having a ship 3 hull and 4 shields with 3 evade dice is pretty tanky.

Here's my list 100 pts:

- Vessery, HLC, VI, Shield Upgrade

- Jonus, Determination, Homing Missile

- Scimitar, Cluster + Assault Missile

(could also go with a Gamma and remove determination and put a concussion instead of the AM depending on your meta)

Your opponent goes for either Jonus and the Scimitar or Your Defender.

Having a Defender at 3hull,4 shields and 3 evade dice can discourage a lot of players. Even the Bomber cannot be killed in one shot.

Once the jousting game begins that's where they start to loose... Jousting with a ship that shoot 4 dice has a TL and focus against your X-Wing with a stress token because he K turned and no Action ... Needless to say the Defender is going to eat it alive. Even against a B-wing + HLC and Advice sensors with is 1 Evade dice... It wins hands down.

I tried also Vessery with shuttle but I found the 2 bomber squad to be better

Looks like a good list, I used a gamma and also went with some seismic charges just to discourage rear attacks..

Brath + predator

Omg+ Vader

3x APs

That's a fun list to fly. And can lay down some damage. A fleet officer would be nice when that comes out. Instead of vader

The TIE Defender and TIE Phantoms are Godsends to the Empire, which up until now felt really constricted on list viability. The TIE Defender especially can be a great anchor for many lists, whether it be filler TIEs, TIE aces, or Firespray escorts.

For me personally there are now Imperial options that aren't TIE swams that feel fun and thematic to fly.

Did a 50 point 3-way match between me, a Phatom plus Obsidian and an E-Wing. I had more fun flying that single fighter than any other fighter in the game so far. It's incredible and it's everything I wanted out of an Imperial Heavy Fighter.

You'd think the Red 1-2 turns are a serious handicap but not in my experience so far. Not when you could Turn-3 and Barrel roll to be in more or less the same position (and then not be locked into a green move next turn). Defenders also have pretty good resiliency as well.

As a rebel player I'm not too concerned with rexler. Without getting another focus token or ptl to get a tl, he's rolling unmodified dice. In my experience that isn't nearly as scary as someone rolling 3 with a focus to burn. If all else fails, force a bump then his ability is negated. With the turns being as bad as they are, position to block the 4k and put him down. Have yet to face vessery, so the jury is still out on him. I will say that I like the stats. 3 shields and 3 agi is very nice. I can see the generics getting some love from an imp looking for shields and a cannon and not too fond of the big based bh.

I run him with predator. Essentially a TL/Focus every turn and if I don't use the focus to turn dice, then I turn crits with it. However, I think that the Rexler component is only one piece. Without another quality threat or two, it's way too easy to ignore everything else till he's toast. Now, consider him with a PtL Jax, and a PtL Fel and suddenly your opponent has no figgin clue where to shoot first. And pro-tip, Rexler is almost as good at closing as Fel is. So, while in a vacuum it may seem like Rex is no big deal, wait until you play against someone who knows how to fly him.

Ill concede that the Defender is certainly going to take some getting used to, but having only straight greens, and so many red hard turns, I think the biggest weakness of this ship is stress. With so much stuff out there that causes additional stress, and more on the way, it's going to be difficult for Defenders to get rid of stress. Maybe pair one with a TIE with Wingman or something?

Why does stress suck? Because no k-turns or actions are possible? A stressed defender with predator can k-turn no matter what (barring a block) and gets a pseudo lock for free each turn. And burning away with a 5 green into a white 4k is tough for a rebel ship to keep pace with, so while it's not super easy like an interceptor, you can totally shed stress without dropping your pants.

Because if you fly a defender and have stress, all I need to do is turn hard to the side and you'll fly right past me. his turning sucks, and his hard turns are red - his only way to clear the stress is to keep going straight.

Because if you fly a defender and have stress, all I need to do is turn hard to the side and you'll fly right past me. his turning sucks, and his hard turns are red - his only way to clear the stress is to keep going straight.

Which is why you need two large threats to distract you. If you have a doom shuttle and a recon hunter on the table I doubt your first priority will be the defender.

I'm just jaded - I played 2 games with the Defender so far and in each game the Defender did almost nothing. My opponent was flying circles around the defender and I think I had 3 shots total (Combined) in 2 games. I'm not giving up on it, but I'm just not sold on it yet. Every other wave 4 ship was an instant success in my eyes, but this one I just don't like.

I flew Vessery in a tourney at the weekend in 4 games. I had him with HLC, Outmaneuver and an Engine upgrade. (49 points)

In all 4 games he was lethal from start to finish. He was supported by an Obsidian with Targeting Computer and Echo with VI and Adv. Cloaking Device. (not sold on the Phantom just yet, but my opponents were fixated on it)

His dial really isn't an issue, especially with his ability and a ship providing locks. I either took the red turn or used soft turns plus the EU. The white K-Turn is just awesome.

Outmaneuver was just cream, rebel ships DO NOT like a HLC in the flank with Outmaneuver on a ship, especially one with a target lock and oft time a focus.

The ship can also take shed loads of punishment. I went 2-2 and the Defender survived every game. I lost the first 2 because I f'd up flying the Phantom.

I had never flown either the Phantom or the Defender before the tourney. Further use of the Defender with other support is required, but I can tell you it is wickedly effective in the config outlined.

Also, Vessery might as well be the only defender in standard play. His ability is amazing. Absolutely terrifying really. Run him with some cheap bombers, or a shuttle and watch as he gets free target locks every turn. Heck, run a squint with Targeting computer and drop the target lock on Vessery's target then never use the target lock. Watch as he shreds it.

Granted, he's expensive, but his ability outclasses every other Defender for raw damage potential.

Still waiting on my Wave 4, but looking to try out this list in the local league:

Col. Vessery

++Heavy Laser Cannon

++Engine Upgrade

Howlrunner

++Targeting Computer

Gamma Squadron Pilot

Scimitar Squadron Pilot

Howlrunner flies around with the Bombers, they get target locks early on multiple targets, ensuring Vessery can spend his action on mobility and still guarantee his ability can trigger, and then Howlrunner buffs the bombers like he would a TIE Swarm. 4 ship Imperial may be risky, but I'd like to give it a try.

The defender is incredibly powerful. Combined with an EU and HLC it just becomes ridiculous.

The trick with using it is it needs to start off as a flanker. Focus fire will bring it down fast. On a flank it just rips ships apart. I think the hardest part with using the Defender is building a list around it. It costs so many points that it makes list building difficult.

This was my first attempt at a Defender list:

Rexler Brath - 37 (51)

Predator - 3

Heavy Laser Cannon - 7

Engine Upgrade - 4

Night Beast - 15

Black Squadron Pilot - 14 (16)

Wingman - 2

Black Squadron Pilot - 14 (18)

Opportunist - 4

There's some things I want to adjust in it, but I still annihilated my opponent only losing 1 TIE.

My biggest issue with Rexler's ability is you can really only use it if you know you are not taking fire from more than 1 ship as naked green dice = BAD

Look, you don't dogfight with a Defender. You joust with it. Even if an opponent flies off to the side, you don't turn your Defender to keep it in arc. You zoom the defender far enough out that, when you K-turn it, the opponent will be in your arc. If you really need to turn, you have the wide white 3 turn, which will have to suffice.

It flies differently than any other ship in the game. Adjust your thinking accordingly.

That said, the Defender does seem to suck and I'm rather disappointed with it overall.

To a certain degree, I agree with Danthrax on the "not dogfighting" comment, but only if you fly without an engine upgrade, if you add that, you can dogfight.

The Defender, like the Phantom is a new type of ship needing new thinking and tactics. It is not a support ship. It is a mainline heavy fighter, just like the B-wing was for the Rebels. For it to be effective it needs upgrades, as little as an engine upgrade or as much as EU, HLC or missile (and EPT on the named).

When list building with a Defender, the other ships support it to a larger degree.

How about some Black Squadron Pilots with Wingman, flown in formation with the Defender, red moves are a lot less annoying.

When the new "meta" shakes out, my prediction is the Defender will take it's place like the B-wing has.

The B-wing is borderline broken. The defender is just 'nice'.

i don't hate it but it certainly gets a big MEH!

I like Rexler. I wanted to run him with predator and a HLC with a mini swarm but it so e point too many. I'll have to give him another go.

I would say drop the HLC I think the 7pts are better used than adding a single die to Rexlar's attack. I believe the math of adding a HLC actually decreases the value of predator on him, because it increases the chance of needing to use a focus offensively by having an extra dice to roll, and rather than rerolling 1(2) out of 3 dice now you are rerolling 1(2) from 4 dice which makes that reroll a tiny bit less of a boon. IE predator's increase in attack efficiency is decreased by adding the HLC especially when cost is factored in.

A real MathWinger I am sure has some numbers to contradict me(or maybe back me up) this was purely my general impressions regarding these two upgrades

I haven't run the numbers on this one, but Predator doesn't cost an action, so you'll get 1 reroll + your focus action. Its like having a soft Target Lock, and also focus, with 4 dice. That's actually really good. Unfortunately it costs a minimum of 45 points. It's not THAT good. Predator is, ironically, anti-synergistic with the PS6 Defender. If you get a free TL, then Predator is (for most scenarios) redundant.