So I've been told more than once and in varios threads that they are a waste of points ect......
So what are your thoughts now? Seems that a pair of Turreted Hawks or Y Wings, really have a place in anti Phantom work.
Really just bored of soccor and thought I'd put something on the boards to talk about.
The difficulty with the blaster turret is that it requires focus to use. The HWK is the easiest application. Which is a shame, because I'd love to get a blaster to work with a Y-wing, but have yet to be successful.
Horton can make it work, recon specialist can make it work, though on Jan I hesitate to do anything that requires her to be able to take an action, any kind of action passing is good for it. If you don't have any of that it's average damage is about the same as an ions, maybe slightly less, and without the board control shenanigans(which if you are worried about phantoms are so worth the extra point). If I use them it's usually as filler so that the ship has some kind of turret available.
Edited by VonpenguinMost of the builds I've been playing involve some sort of focus passing so it can be focused/ Or TL plus of course the focus to use.
I feel like blaster turret is even less relevant against the phantom. Hitting a phantom with an ion token prevents them from using their decloak shenanigans to slip away on the next turn and depending on the situation might even let you keep them from cloaking at all. Block them on the 1-forward to prevent a cloak action or any other kind of defensive action (if they are already cloaked), and then pound them with everything you've got. Maybe ion them again for good measure if they aren't dead already.
Hitting a phantom with a blaster turret can deal more damage than just an ion shot, but the various drawbacks of the blaster turret combined with the loss of a potential kill setup makes it less ideal than ever imo, at least in terms of fighting against TIE phantoms.
Blaster Turret = Bad.
If you want something that is "anti-Phantom" then the ION Turret will be a much better bet in most cases. Both roll 3 dice but the Blaster requires a Focus token just to get used while the Ion could use that to modify its dice. Once a Phantom is hit the Blaster may get lucky and land more than one explosion symbol but then it will need to do it again next turn; the ion hit may only cause one damage but next turn you'll have a MUCH better idea where the phantom will be as no dial to reveal means no uncloaking.
Blaster can work on a HWK and may work it a squad that passes Focus tokens but it's not the reliable upgrade that an Ion Turret normally is without any outside help.
I've enjoyed using the Blaster Turret on Kyle Katarn.
A 3 dice attack with a focus (ICT) is expected to do the following damage against tokenless ships:
1agi = 1.88
2agi = 1.53
3agi = 1.22
4agi = .95
5agi = .72
6agi = .54
But more importantly for the ICT, is % to hit... which with a focus and against a tokenless ship is:
1agi = 93%
2agi = 84%
3agi = 72%
4agi = 60%
5agi = 48%
6agi = 38%
And the expected damage of the ICT is the same as the % hit of the ICT (since it always does 1 damage).
A naked 3 dice attack (blaster) does the following expected damage:
1agi = 1.17
2agi = .88
3agi = .67
4agi = .50
5agi = .36
6agi = .26
So, this means, unless there is a second action somewhere, the only time the blaster turret does more expected damage than the ion is against 1 agility ships, and .04 damage extra on 2 agility ships. However, this comes at the expense of consistency. The variance will be much greater (thus the ability to do 3 damage).
To demonstrate that consistency, here are the % hit for a blaster:
1agi = 73%
2agi = 59%
3agi = 47%
4agi = 36%
5agi = 27%
6agi = 20%
Which means that the ion is twice as likely to do any damage at all to a cloaked phantom. Ion > Blaster in most applications (note, the use of the word most is just because using the word all will strike up arguments from persons personal experience on kyle + recon + blaster (which i don't recommend btw) and whatnot)
I think there is some utility in blaster turret/recon specialist/predator but that is 10 points worth of upgrades so hard to justify (and only works on Jan/Kyle).
I played a couple of games last night with Roark + blaster + recon + moldy crow. In that particular build I wanted to maximize my damage output. I quite enjoyed the HWK. It proved to be deadly and tough to kill. I would not take the blaster without the full setup. So it's case depending but I think it works. Just more costly IMO then a straight ic
I tried it the other day on Dutch with R7-T1 backed up by Lando and Garvin. It was fairly effective, my dice rolls were total crap and the first damage card I took was a munitions failure so that sucked, but the list worked as intended and I managed to scrape out a win thanks to my high HP. It's something I'd like to try again, only maybe switching Garvin out for Airen Craken with wingman and an assault/homing missile.
It can work, but I generally prefer Ion Turrets. The only time I have used my Hawk I got it in and the flexibility against ties was nice. It pairs well with an Ion Y as the enemy has a harder time choosing which irritant to focus down.
The problem with the Blaster Turret is two fold - though both come from the fact that it costs a focus to fire.
First and more importantly Actions are a huge part of the game. There are so many ways you can lose you action, stress, collisions, obstacles, not to mention some dumb Academy pilot flying in and blocking you. And if you don't get that action you can't shoot your Blaster Turret. Getting shots (and avoiding shots) is what this game is all about.
Secondly when you spend your Focus to shoot your turret your aren't spending it on your actual attack (or defense) This was the initial problem with torpedoes/missiles (getting an extra dice isn't a lot better than that TL you just spent)
There are ways around these issues. The most common are Moldy Crow Title and Recon Spec crewman. Well now yo have just spent 10 points on your turret. And you really shouldn't do anything else with these focus token you accumulate (like give them away to other ships) if you want to be able to reliably shoot your turret.
I was excited about the blaster turret when I found out it was coming out. I tend towards straight forward tactics. I prefer doing more damage to "Effects" like ionization. But that ion effect isn't nothing. It can be soooo soooo useful. Remember this is a dog fighting game. Being able to control or at least know where your opponent will be next round is great.
But if you really want a cheap 360 firing arc that can do more than 1 damage a turn, try the Outer Rim Smuggler. Most under rated ship in the game IMO. If you really like 360 firing arcs, put APL on it and add a Y-wing (or HWK) with an Ion turret. You will thank me.
I've enjoyed using the Blaster Turret on Kyle Katarn.
Why? IMO he's the worst candidate for it. His ability gives AWAY focus, which he needs for the blaster. I'd give him an ion and take Roark with recspec and Crow. It's cheaper, and his ability doesn't compete with his gun.
I'd take ion with kyle.
You could do something like this:
Gold pilot moves and focuses, Garven moves and focuses, and Lando moves and gives Gold a target lock (hopefully the enemy moved into range before Lando's action pass). During combat, Garven uses his focus defensively (or on attack, if no one shots him before his attack) and passes the token to Gold, who can now fire the blaster with an extra focus and a target lock.
However, you've now spent 77 points to make the blaster turret work. Well, really just 72 points, as the draw their fire and R2-D2 are there to keep Garven alive longer. Meanwhile, Lando is using a 1-3 range, 3-attack dice turreted main weapon that doesn't need two foci to use effectively.
I haven't found it to be an issue, since by the time Kyle is in combat range, he normally has a very large stack of Focus tokens.
I haven't found it to be an issue, since by the time Kyle is in combat range, he normally has a very large stack of Focus tokens.
I understand that, but its a large stack he accumulates no faster than any other pilot, but he burns through more quickly than any other pilot. A couple of bumps and using 4 focus a turn potentially will see that stack gone. I'd put a blaster on someone who accumulates tokens and doesn't have them all burn a hole in his pocket.
Kyle makes more sense with an ion, so he can lend out his focus carefree
I was just recently annihilated by a pair of Operatives with Recons and Blaster Turrets.
Ironically, it was a squad I built to handle Phantoms. It was the one thing they did well.
Blaster Turret is an upgrade that can only be used on support ships, and requires that you invest even more points in support abilities or ships to give it any semblance of offensive potential. The result is that you wind up with an extremely over costed support ship, or you have multiple support ships to somehow compensate for the loss of an action. Either way you're sacrificing a considerable amount of offensive potential just to make a terrible combo work. Blaster Turret is most definitely a trap card, and should only be used in very rare circumstances, with minimal point expenditure.
I haven't found it to be an issue, since by the time Kyle is in combat range, he normally has a very large stack of Focus tokens.
I understand that, but its a large stack he accumulates no faster than any other pilot, but he burns through more quickly than any other pilot. A couple of bumps and using 4 focus a turn potentially will see that stack gone. I'd put a blaster on someone who accumulates tokens and doesn't have them all burn a hole in his pocket.
Kyle makes more sense with an ion, so he can lend out his focus carefree
But in 100 point play, Recon Spec and ion Turret for Kyle.
I always use blaster turret on Kyle, my go to list is:
Kyle with blaster turret and moldy crow (28)
Garven with R2 astromech (27)
Biggs with R2-F2 (28)
Prototipe pilot (17) after my wave 4 arives Bandit squadron with assault missile (17)
You spend few turns going 1 forward and acumulating focus, after that Biggs gets 3 agility and focus from Kyle, Garven shoots and gives his token to Kyle (Or Biggs if things look grim) and Bandit will survive getting to range and will get focus for his missile.
I ran this in tourney play thinking it would be nigh unbeatable. The reality was completely different as I had my ass handed to me repeatedly.
IBITSAM/BIGGS/KYLE
100 points
38 points
Ibtisam
Heavy Laser Cannon, Push the Limit
31 points
Kyle Katarn
Blaster Turret, Recon Specialist, Moldy Crow
31 points
Biggs Darklighter
R2-F2, Stealth Device
The idea was to have Biggs at 4 greens and focused not counting range. This is per phantom so i was thinking turn one of actual combat I can pass through unscaved and knock out or cripple one enemy ship between Biggs and ibitsam. The blaster turret was simply there to keep things off my six. What would happen is that on turn one of combat Biggs would roll blanks and get vaporized, Kyle would be next target and dead by second turn and ibitsam would be out maneuvered and squashed on third or fourth turn. I went 0 and 4. Finished second to last on points.
Edited by Seanamal@ Khyros: Is this expected damage including the double damage crits?
Fwiw, I don't think blaster or ion turrets work that well against phantoms, only falcon turrets. Ion turrets CAN be amazing against them, but any phantom worth a !$%# can pretty easily stay at range 3 and murder a Y-wing from there. It is VERY easy to stall with a Phantom. Or cloak foward if they realize you're stalling and attempt to run out of range entirely.