Here's how I worded it (it is slightly biased towards my interpretation, but I assume that won't throw the rules gurus):

Here's the situation: A Lambda Shuttle that is perpendicular to a huge ship and moves straight, overlapping the huge ship. The huge ship then moves 1 forward, not itself overlapping the shuttle since they were perpendicular, but not moving out of contact with the shuttle. Are they still considered touching for that round as neither ship has moved in such a way that they are no longer touching (as per the core rulebook, pg 17)?

Next turn, the shuttle executes the 0-speed maneuver. The huge ship again moves 1 forward. Again, neither ship has moved in such a way that they are no longer touching. Are they still considered touching or can they fire on each other? Previous versions of the FAQ did specify that the ships had to have overlapped that round to be considered touching, but I noticed that that part was removed from the most recent FAQ.

Thanks!

The removal of "the round" qualification does muddy the water a bit but I still think it is fairly clear, I agree with Dbmeboy's interpretation.

The key is what he already quoted, bolded. They clearly state at some point the bases have to separate.

Rule book, pg 17: "Ships whose bases are touching cannot declare each other as a target during the Combat phase while their bases remain touching. As soon as either of these ships moves away (so that the bases are no longer touching), this combat restriction no longer applies."

The only exception would be the situation that Kinetic describes, where a lower PS ship is touching behind another perfectly aligned so a 1 straight movement would frog leap and not create that separation that would normally occur, like if the lower PS pilot was in front. This is where the "that round" would come in handy. As the rules are now, if this were to occur then a ship could not fire a 2nd round even if there isn't overlap.

The Huge ship question that peeks my interest is... Are both bases of Huge ship considered the same base?

Aka If I bumped into the front base as dbmeboy describes above. The Huge ship then moves say 4 straight and I am still touching a base, but it happens to be the rear base... is that considered still "touching" from overlap. Technically separation did occur from bases, yet Huge ships have 2 (and cardboard between) and they are pretty wishy-washy with separate sections vs whole ship when it comes to the rules.

I submitted this question the last time this discussion came up and received the following answer. I'm not sure it entirely clears up the situation presented, though. My original question is in white, Frank's answer in yellow. However I think the most important part of the answer is the one I highlighted in red...

Rule Question:
I have noticed that the following quote has been removed from the FAQ:

Q: Can two ships be considered touching if
neither ship overlapped the other ship
during this round?
A: No.

Does this mean that two ships that have NOT overlapped during the current round COULD be considered to be touching?

This would affect some issues which are not covered in the current FAQ, such as:

1: An Imperial Shuttle which was overlapped and touching in one round performing a Stationary maneuver in the next.

If a ship is touching at least 1 other ship and executes a 0 maneuver, it still counts as touching any of those ships. This was in opposition of the quoted question which is part of the reason it was removed.

2: A ship barrel rolling/boosting in such a way that it does not overlap (which would be illegal) but is in base contact with another ship.

3: A maneuver which does not overlap another ship but brings it into base contact.

The only way two ships can become touching is if one ship overlaps another ship when executing a maneuver. The only exception is with a 0 maneuver since this does not cause a ship to actually overlap a ship it was previously touching. A ship cannot becoming touching from a boost or barrel roll since it would have to overlap. Similarly, a maneuver would only cause you to become touching if it overlapped.

In essence, a ship can only either overlap and therefore become touching or be not overlapping and therefore not touching. The stationary maneuver muddles this slightly.

Your intent was clear with the previous FAQ entry, but its removal has caused some discussion about whether this ruling is still in force.

Thanks!

This concept will be readdressed in the next FAQ.

Thanks for playing!

Frank Brooks

Associate Creative Content Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

Thank you for posting the response.

Let me rephrase this.

If a ship did not overlap a ship when performing a maneuver it cannot be considered "touching" in rules terms regardless of whether or not it wound up in physical proximity (lol, what a mouthful). The "0" maneuver is an exception, in that if two ships were previously "touching" they will still be "touching" after the "0" maneuver.

It seems that the previous interpretation, not moving due to having a ship directly in front of you, is no longer valid. The only "maneuver" you can execute and still be "touching" is the "0" maneuver (unless you overlap someone, obviously).

Unfortunately, doesn't really help with this particular situation... because we did have an overlap that caused touching... he didn't really address when touching ended...

What we need answered is whether the game condition of "touching" lasts

1 - until one of the ships performs a maneuver, regardless of whether the bases remain in contact,

2 - until the ships are no longer in contact or the end of the round whichever comes first

3 - Until the ships are no longer in contact, regardless of what round the overlap occurred.

The ruling on the shuttle stationary maneuver implies that it is NOT option 1. The previous FAQ indicated that it was option 2, but they took out that wording, which really just leaves the entire issue a muddled mess. Especially since there is now more than one way for the situation to occur.

Unfortunately, doesn't really help with this particular situation... because we did have an overlap that caused touching... he didn't really address when touching ended...

True, as I said I thought the most important part was the fact that he acknowledged that it was muddled, and said it would be addressed in the next FAQ.

We know how it USED to work from the removed wording, and we know that the wording was removed primarily to address the Shuttle 0 move situation. My take is to play it the way it used to be, taking into consideration the Shuttle "clarification", until the new FAQ. I think the original wording about moving away "so that the bases are no longer touching" tends to support this position. It does beg the question, however, as to whether the front and back bases of a huge ship count as one base. And, what happens if the movement leaves the ship that overlapped between the two bases?

so i would assume in my case the ship is still touching and since it is behind the blue line it could not target the front section as a attack

It actually looks pretty clear to me. The only way to be touching after you execute your maneuver is to overlap, no matter whether or not you are touching in the literal sense or not. The only exception to this is the "0" maneuver, and that exception is that your "0" maneuver does not alter the state.

In essence, a ship can only either overlap and therefore become touching or be not overlapping and therefore not touching.

If you execute a maneuver and are not overlapping, you are not touching.

In essence, a ship can only either overlap and therefore become touching or be not overlapping and therefore not touching.

Yes, I agree. It really is that simple.

It seems that some people confuse 'physically adjacent' with 'touching'. They are not the same thing.

It actually looks pretty clear to me. The only way to be touching after you execute your maneuver is to overlap, no matter whether or not you are touching in the literal sense or not. The only exception to this is the "0" maneuver, and that exception is that your "0" maneuver does not alter the state.

In essence, a ship can only either overlap and therefore become touching or be not overlapping and therefore not touching.

If you execute a maneuver and are not overlapping, you are not touching.

Except this example did have an overlap, so meets the criteria for becoming touching. Like I said, did not at all address the question of when touching ends outside of that the 0 maneuver does not end it. Still waiting for a response to my question that directly posed this scenario...

It actually looks pretty clear to me. The only way to be touching after you execute your maneuver is to overlap, no matter whether or not you are touching in the literal sense or not. The only exception to this is the "0" maneuver, and that exception is that your "0" maneuver does not alter the state.

In essence, a ship can only either overlap and therefore become touching or be not overlapping and therefore not touching.

If you execute a maneuver and are not overlapping, you are not touching.

Except this example did have an overlap, so meets the criteria for becoming touching. Like I said, did not at all address the question of when touching ends outside of that the 0 maneuver does not end it. Still waiting for a response to my question that directly posed this scenario...

This applies the same to the Huge ships.

Ship A hit Huge Ship B. Huge ship B goes 1 Forward. Huge Ship B is no longer in contact with Ship A.

Which assumes that option 1 in my post #31 above is how it works and that the shuttle stationary move is an isolated exception.

It could also be, however, that the shuttle move is supposed to be setting a precedent that if the maneuver doesn't actually separate the ships they remain touching.

You are looking for an explicit statement that doesn't exist because it should go without saying. There is no actual rule that says if two ships are "touching" and one moves, they are no longer "touching". The interpretation you are looking for would have two ships that have overlapped continue to be "touching" for the rest of the game because there is no explicit rule for ending the "touching" state.

It has been stated clearly that if you move, and do not overlap, you are not "touching" as far as the rules are concerned even if your ships are still in physical proximity at the end of the maneuver(s). Franks answer explicitly states that the ONLY exception is the "0" maneuver. I would guess that is because it states in the rules for the "0" maneuver that the ship does NOT move, but that is speculation on my part. I will quote the relevant sentence one more time, because it really is absolutely clear.

In essence, a ship can only either overlap and therefore become touching or be not overlapping and therefore not touching.

If you "be not overlapping" you are "therefore not touching". Frank stated explicitly that there are NO other exceptions, including the one you are asking about.

By the way, this is different than I understood previously because a ship that executes a non "0" maneuver does not count as "touching" anyone other than the ship he moved into even if he didn't actually move (because there was a ship in physical proximity directly ahead of him). The only way to "remain touching" is to execute a "0" maneuver, there are no other exceptions.

Repeated, for clarity. There is one and only one circumstance that allows ships to remain touching when executing a maneuver that does not result in an overlap, and that is the "0" maneuver. We have been told unambiguously that there are no other exceptions, at all, to this rule.

Ironically, this makes it a valid tactic to get a cheap range 1 shot by running into a ship you know is not going to be able to move far enough, which is exactly what the "touching" combat restriction is supposed to prevent.

I think you are forgetting the part of the rule that states Until one of the ships moves ends them up not touching.

And here touching means physical contact.

This means that if you move the ship but does not clear the opposing ship you arw still toucuing.

This goes very much in hand with the 0 maneuver as your move does not move you away from the enemy.

And if that enemy is a large or hige ship and you hit is perpendicular on the front, the opposing ship can execute a 1 straight maneuver and not clear the contact. Thesevships would still be touching because the move did not clear the enemy ship.

Also, if ship A overlaps ship B and ship B then overlaps ship C and thus does not move ship B will be touching both ships A anc C as its move did not clear ship A

there is no explicit rule for ending the "touching" state.

Except there is an explicit rule for ending the "touching" state which has been quoted repeatedly in this thread. Frank does not explicitly override this rule in his reply, so it's hard to invoke "Frank's word is law" for this situation. He says that overlapping is required for touching, and we have overlapping in the example... Again, there is a rules question submitted with this explicit situation posed which he has not yet replied to. We can try to extrapolate his answer posted to the other questions to this situation, but the questions (and answers) don't quite match the situation so the extrapolation is imperfect.

His words do quite explicitly refute that ruling. He doesn't address it directly, but the post most certainly does address it. He says overlapping and then no movement on the part of either ship. You can be as resistant to that as you want, but it is 100% what the post says.

His words do quite explicitly refute that ruling. He doesn't address it directly, but the post most certainly does address it. He says overlapping and then no movement on the part of either ship. You can be as resistant to that as you want, but it is 100% what the post says.

I've looked through his answers a few times, and I really don't see anything resembling the bolded statement. It's possible I'm just reading past it and not seeing it...

Frank's answer:

The only way two ships can become touching is if one ship overlaps another ship when executing a maneuver. The only exception is with a 0 maneuver since this does not cause a ship to actually overlap a ship it was previously touching. A ship cannot becoming touching from a boost or barrel roll since it would have to overlap. Similarly, a maneuver would only cause you to become touching if it overlapped.

In essence, a ship can only either overlap and therefore become touching or be not overlapping and therefore not touching. The stationary maneuver muddles this slightly.

Talks about how ships become touching, never says anything about when ships that have become touching stop being considered touching. Which leaves us only the section in the rulebook until he responds to the question...

His words do quite explicitly refute that ruling. He doesn't address it directly, but the post most certainly does address it. He says overlapping and then no movement on the part of either ship. You can be as resistant to that as you want, but it is 100% what the post says.

I've looked through his answers a few times, and I really don't see anything resembling the bolded statement. It's possible I'm just reading past it and not seeing it...

Frank's answer:

The only way two ships can become touching is if one ship overlaps another ship when executing a maneuver. The only exception is with a 0 maneuver since this does not cause a ship to actually overlap a ship it was previously touching. A ship cannot becoming touching from a boost or barrel roll since it would have to overlap. Similarly, a maneuver would only cause you to become touching if it overlapped.

In essence, a ship can only either overlap and therefore become touching or be not overlapping and therefore not touching. The stationary maneuver muddles this slightly.

Talks about how ships become touching, never says anything about when ships that have become touching stop being considered touching. Which leaves us only the section in the rulebook until he responds to the question...

The 0 Manuever wouldn't muddle anything unless what we're saying is true. Explain any other way it would.

Easy enough: the previous rule that required the overlap to have occurred that round to have touching. This ruling allows the 0-speed maneuver to keep touching going between rounds even without a new overlap. In the situation proposed in the original question though, we're still in the same round as the overlap, so even the removed part of the FAQ didn't keep them from being touching.

"1.From the opposite end of the template, move the active ship backward along the top of the template until it no longer overlaps another ship. While moving the ship, adjust it so that the template remains centered between both sets of guides on the ship’s base. Place the ship so that the bases of both ships are touching.

2. Skip this ship’s “Perform Action” step.

Ships whose bases are touching cannot declare each other as a target during the Combat phase while their bases remain touching. As soon as either of these ships moves away (so that the bases are no longer touching), this combat restriction no longer applies."

It says place the bases so that both ships are touching.

That creates a touching state between two ships that have overlapped. However, once the ship has been picked up it is no longer touching any ships that collided with it earlier in the round that it has not collided with again. That ends the touching state. Any movement other than the 0 movement ends the touching state. Even non-Movement by virtue of taking a manuever that ends in the same spot ends the bump because they moved away and then didn't overlap again.

The same applies with the huge ship. They moved away, the bases are "No longer touching" within the games rules for touching.

The very last sentence in Frank's answer is the one that makes it most clear. If you move, and "be not overlapping", you are "therefore not touching". It doesn't matter what happened before. If you executed your maneuver and did not overlap that ship, you are not "touching".