I've been reading a lot on the Legacy Era, and I generally like it. As far as gaming goes, it allows me to use the materials from all three lines (fringe characters, military characters, and Force-users) easily while having something a bit different from the standard Dark Times/Rebellion game.

That said, I still have a few concerns with it. By the timeline, the Imperial Remnant/Empire (under Fel) makes itself out to be an attractive alternative to the GFFA. In 127 ABY, tensions lead to war with the GFFA and in 128 ABY the One Sith reveal themselves as allies of Fel's Empire and help him to win the war by 130 ABY. This is where I have a mental hiccup.

The Sith are pretty well known as the historical "Big-Bad-Evil-Guy" throughout much of the galaxy. Even those that don't know much more about them know that they're bad news. This makes me wonder why the Empire would publicly acknowledge their assistance, so much that it becomes known as the Sith-Imperial War. It also makes me wonder why anyone sane would surrender to Fel's Empire when they are known to be allied with the Sith. Publicly allying with the Sith would seem to hamper the Emperor's "victory without war" policy and the goals of the Imperial Mission (both of which seemed to be sincerely pushed by Emperor Fel).

So, considering that, I was wondering if perhaps the story could be bettered by editing it to have the Sith be hidden allies of select members of the Imperial leadership (specifically not of Emperor Fel or those that will become his loyalists). The Sith would not be publicly revealed until the coup in 130 ABY when Emperor Fel is driven into exile and the Sith take control of (most of) the Empire. This means that nobody fighting in the Sith-Imperial War would have called it that at the time of the conflict, only after Darth Krayt is Emperor.

I should mention that I'm only really interested in the starting point of the Legacy Era (sometime between 130-137 ABY) and I don't have any intention of adhering to the events of the comics past that point.

So, considering that, I was wondering if perhaps the story could be bettered by editing it to have the Sith be hidden allies of select members of the Imperial leadership (specifically not of Emperor Fel or those that will become his loyalists). The Sith would not be publicly revealed until the coup in 130 ABY when Emperor Fel is driven into exile and the Sith take control of (most of) the Empire. This means that nobody fighting in the Sith-Imperial War would have called it that at the time of the conflict, only after Darth Krayt is Emperor.

The first part is exactly how it happened.

With all that being said, you could easily play it that the Sith don't fully reveal themselves until the coup. In fact, I think that is even better of a surprise.

I've cracked open my Saga Legacy Era Campaign guide a few days ago for the exact reasons you mentioned. I love this era and I plan on starting a campaign in that era as soon as I get my hands on F&D.

If you haven't read Volume I of the legacy comics, I recommend you find it. I loved the story, but even if it isn't your thing, the world that is established around the series is worth the time.

Love the era, though much of the non empire fighter designs are garbage. Also: doesn't exist anymore.

It wasn't until the Sith attacked Ossus (something that Fel was completely against), did Roan Fel try come to realize his folly.

Oh, he was well aware that betrayal was coming, just not sure when. That is why he survived the coup and escaped with so many loyalist forces, because he had enough genre-savvy to know that Sith = Betrayal.

But kaosoe is dead-on correct. I always imagined that the "Sith-Imperial War" label was applied with hindsight, and more than a little desire from the GFFA to demonize their opponents (not that the Sith need any help with that ).

That said, we've seen time and again in Star Wars that some characters, species, and planets will surrender to Force-crazed villains in the hopes of being spared. And when considered from the perspective of the individuals whose lives would be risked to fight back, a long but downtrodden life might seem preferable to a noble, but possibly fruitless, death.

Plus, what happens if you get a whole bunch of Sith just roll up one day in your crib and say "That's a nice Empire you have here. Be a real shame if something happened to it."

You can tell them to pound sand (and they'll kick your ass and take it anyway) or you can work with them, try and stay alive and hope you can mitigate damage somehow or wait for an opportunity to turn the tables. Both solutions suck, but one sucks slightly less than the other.

Plus, what happens if you get a whole bunch of Sith just roll up one day in your crib and say "That's a nice Empire you have here. Be a real shame if something happened to it."

You can tell them to pound sand (and they'll kick your ass and take it anyway) or you can work with them, try and stay alive and hope you can mitigate damage somehow or wait for an opportunity to turn the tables. Both solutions suck, but one sucks slightly less than the other.

I don't think the Sith could have taken the Empire if they hadn't been let in by the Moffs. Between the Imperial Knights (good but few in number) and the other resources of the Empire, the Sith couldn't have openly taken control by force (no pun intended). If they had tried, the Empire may have even been able to call on the Jedi for help. Despite the Jedi being on the opposing side in a war, their first enemy would have been the Sith regardless of the political lines.

I've cracked open my Saga Legacy Era Campaign guide a few days ago for the exact reasons you mentioned. I love this era and I plan on starting a campaign in that era as soon as I get my hands on F&D.

If you haven't read Volume I of the legacy comics, I recommend you find it. I loved the story, but even if it isn't your thing, the world that is established around the series is worth the time.

I'm happy that I found a copy of the Saga guide in great condition for dirt cheap ($14.99) at HPB. I don't plan to wait for more rulebooks, I'll just go with what I have for Jedi/Sith/Imperial Knights.

I did read the first dozen or so issues of the Legacy comic several years ago. I'm not 100% clear on some of the details, particularly what occurred in the Sith-Imperial War (127-130 ABY) or the downtime before the comics begin (so 130-137 ABY). This latter period, the seven years before the main story of the Legacy comics begin, is where I'm currently most interested in setting a game.

One thing I had underestimated until I looked things over this morning is that the Sith might be considered the lesser evil compared to the Yuuzhan Vong. The Jedi had thrown in with a partnership with some of the Vong, and when it went wrong (because of Sith interference, but that was not publicly know), it looked like the Vong were becoming a big threat again. Compared to the Sith, the Vong did do a lot more harm to the galaxy in the most recent century, so I guess some people could ignore the Sith's reputation if they thought it was necessary to defeat a new Vong threat.

Another pair of questions:

Between 130 ABY and 137 ABY, was the galaxy aware that Roan Fel had avoided being assassinated by the Sith? If so, were Fel loyalists working to oppose the Sith during this time, or did they bide their time quietly while amassing their forces at/around Bastion and only begin taking action in 137 ABY?

"That's a nice Empire you have here. Be a real shame if something happened to it."

[smashes Star Destroyer's tail light]

One thing I had underestimated until I looked things over this morning is that the Sith might be considered the lesser evil compared to the Yuuzhan Vong. The Jedi had thrown in with a partnership with some of the Vong, and when it went wrong (because of Sith interference, but that was not publicly know), it looked like the Vong were becoming a big threat again. Compared to the Sith, the Vong did do a lot more harm to the galaxy in the most recent century, so I guess some people could ignore the Sith's reputation if they thought it was necessary to defeat a new Vong threat.

You're probably right. After Kol botched the restoration project, the YV were back to being hated and untrustworthy. I think this is a pretty natural conclusion.

Another pair of questions:

Between 130 ABY and 137 ABY, was the galaxy aware that Roan Fel had avoided being assassinated by the Sith? If so, were Fel loyalists working to oppose the Sith during this time, or did they bide their time quietly while amassing their forces at/around Bastion and only begin taking action in 137 ABY?

I recently re-read the comics so it's mostly fresh in my mind. I do not recall Krayt convincing the Galaxy that Fel was dead even though he knew that wasn't the case. Certainly the Imperial and Sith forces and dignitaries would have known better if he did. That might be something you could add in to your own game and not have to worry about breaking cannon (such that it is).

It was my understanding that Fel's loyalists flocked to Roan as soon as the botched coup occurred. I also believe that Roan Fel had a few men within the Sith Empire to help him stay one step ahead of Krayt, but so did Darth Krayt on the opposite side.

I don't entirely remember the comics, but I always thought Fel publicly announced the Sith to put a spotlight on them. Sith are like roaches, they do their best work in the shadows.

I don't entirely remember the comics, but I always thought Fel publicly announced the Sith to put a spotlight on them. Sith are like roaches, they do their best work in the shadows.

I don't recall that, but It's worth noting that the One Sith is very different from the typical Sith tradition since the Ruusan Reformation. Krayt had no problems working in the open, it was only dealing with his fellow sith did he work in misdirection and cryptic conversations.

OK, here's another one for the helpful folks:

The Saga book tells me a lot about Fel's Empire and how much of it is similar to Palpatine's GE. However, I've seen no mention of COMPNOR or the ISB. Do these organizations exist in Fel's Empire (and later the Sith Empire)?

I feel that they may have been replaced by the 'velvet glove' of the Imperial Mission (and later augmented by Darth Maladi's Sith Intelligence), but it's not impossible that both exist together.

As far as anyone knows, Fel's Empire didn't have an actual COMPNOR or ISB. Closest they had to a propaganda group was the Imperial Mission, which was more of a "hearts and minds" operation, doing charitable deeds and helping local populations. Any intelligence operations were actually headed-up by Imperial Intelligence.

About the only reason Darth Krayt didn't shut down the Imperial Mission project was that the guy in charge managed to convince him that doing so would lead to greater long-term resistance to Sith rule, and that he might even be able to use the Mission as a means of gathering intelligence.

Does Fel's Empire (and the Sith Empire) still use the three branch military of Army/Navy/Stormtrooper Corps? I ask because the Saga book refers to the Knighthunters (a group of stormtroopers specially trained to fight Jedi) as a a special division of the Imperial Army.

Of course, the same book describes Cade Skywalker's mother as giving birth to him during the Sith-Imperial War - which would have made him 10 years old (at best) during the Legacy comics, so it's obviously not too accurate.

Another question:

What was the typical end result of Vongforming? Did it usually result in local variations of the jungle-like conditions on the old Vong homeworld (Yuuzhan'tar), or did it vary more dramatically?

Does Fel's Empire (and the Sith Empire) still use the three branch military of Army/Navy/Stormtrooper Corps? I ask because the Saga book refers to the Knighthunters (a group of stormtroopers specially trained to fight Jedi) as a a special division of the Imperial Army.

Of course, the same book describes Cade Skywalker's mother as giving birth to him during the Sith-Imperial War - which would have made him 10 years old (at best) during the Legacy comics, so it's obviously not too accurate.

As to this, I cannot say. We definitely saw what amounted to an Imperial Navy and Stormtrooper Corp in the Sith and Fel empire, but I don't recall anything about Army. But that doesn't mean it's not there.

Another question:

What was the typical end result of Vongforming? Did it usually result in local variations of the jungle-like conditions on the old Vong homeworld (Yuuzhan'tar), or did it vary more dramatically?

Yes. I specifically recall Cade et al running into a Vongformed Acklay in the comics.

If I recall, the stormtroopers ARE the army. Much as I feel it is in the movies. Only the WEG drek mentions an army being seperate. I don't recall anything being mentioned in the legends fiction about the army.

If I recall, the stormtroopers ARE the army. Much as I feel it is in the movies. Only the WEG drek mentions an army being seperate. I don't recall anything being mentioned in the legends fiction about the army.

Lest you forget, FFG's game lines also refer to the Imperial Army as a separate entity from the Stormtrooper Corps.

So far only in the age of rebellion beta, are there stats for that. Hopefully FFG comes to their senses and removes the redundant blight that weg wrought.

So far only in the age of rebellion beta, are there stats for that. Hopefully FFG comes to their senses and removes the redundant blight that weg wrought.

While there may not be stats, the Edge of the Empire Core Rulebook covers the separation of the Imperial Army and the Stormtrooper Corps quite clearly on 369-370. On page 404, there is also another relevant line: "Stormtroopers are not part of the Imperial Army but are a separate corps of dedicated shock troops."

I'm not sure why you object to this division so adamantly. It's not like there aren't real world examples of multi-branch military forces (US Army and US Marine Corps being among the most obvious).

I did find this on Wookieepedia:

The later Legacy-era stormtrooper forces are more comparable to the real-world U.S. Army Rangers in that they have become an elite form of infantry as an integral and subordinate part of the Imperial Army command structure. The 501st , on the other hand, was more semi-autonomous, similar to the U.S. Marine Corps functioning as the Emperor's praetorian guard alongside the Imperial Knights .

You are talking my language here; Legacy era is my favorite era to come out of the EU. Lightsabers! Jedi! Sith! Stormtrooper villains! Stormtrooper heroes! Alliance on the run! Woohoo!

I've done a lot of research and study into the Era. I'm a huge fan of it. Ran a multi-year campaign in the era with Saga edition (before and after the release of the LECG) and am setting up a campaign to start in the era with Edge of the Empire later this year.

Some of the understanding of Fel and his Empire is that Fel did not have absolute control over the Imperial Remant. The Imperial Remnant had a check-and-balance system, with a Moff Council as the congressional branch and Fel as the executive branch. The Moffs were...well, your typical Moffs. Many were corrupt and wanted the power the Fel Dynasty had. They saw the failure of the Vong Restoration Project as a means to push the Emperor into a war that would ultimately give the Moff more power (More territory means either more power for those on the Council). However, they didn't count on Fel stating "Fine, you have your war. You're not getting my Knights. I'm keeping them out of it." So now the Moffs have effectively started a war with the Alliance that they are at a severe disadvantage, because they were counting on the Force Powers of the Imperial Knights to counteract the Jedi. The Empire started to lose.

Enter the Sith (who sabotaged the Vong Restoration Project in the first place) who offer to help the Empire but actually had a secret pact with the Moffs in the first place that basically said "we'll help you get the throne if we get a piece of the pie". The Sith come in and effectively counter the Jedi. Because they were brought in by the Moffs as a consequence of the Imperial Knights being removed from the fray, Fel hands are tied. He can protest and try to fight the Moff Council, but that's about as effective as our own president fighting Congress. Besides, the Sith are winning battles with the Empire and gaining the loyalty of the Imperial commanders and troops out there serving with them. Eventually, the Alliance loses, the Empire wins, and the Moffs think they now get to watch Krayt betray the Emperor and allow Moff Creed to take the throne. The Sith take all the power, screw over the Moff council to make them middle-management or face execution, and the Sith now control the galaxy.

Again.

Now, where does the Imperial Armed Forces fit into this. A lot of the Imperial Military is loyal to the ideal of the Empire, not necissarily who's sitting in the throne. They stick with Krayt out of loyalty to the (seemingly) legitimate government, the Sith who fought with them, or out of fear. The rest run off with Fel after seeing the writing on the wall and the massive deception the Sith (and the Moff council) made.

The Sith spend the next 7 years tightening their grip while Fel consolidates power. Meanwhile the last of the Alliance runs and fights a geurilla war against the Empire (either faction, really). Begin Volume 1 of the comic series here.

About the Stormtroopers, in the comics you never really see any ground troops other than Stormtroopers. To that end I treat them like the Clone Troops during the Clone Wars. There are a few battalions, regiments, and legions described in the comics, facing off against each other. All of them are Storm Troopers. It could be there are other branches of service still in play like the Army and Navy Troopers, especially vehicle crews, but the main fighting is done by the boys and girls in white armor.

That how I've understood it all, and how it's run in my games.

So far only in the age of rebellion beta, are there stats for that. Hopefully FFG comes to their senses and removes the redundant blight that weg wrought.

While there may not be stats, the Edge of the Empire Core Rulebook covers the separation of the Imperial Army and the Stormtrooper Corps quite clearly on 369-370. On page 404, there is also another relevant line: "Stormtroopers are not part of the Imperial Army but are a separate corps of dedicated shock troops."

I'm not sure why you object to this division so adamantly. It's not like there aren't real world examples of multi-branch military forces (US Army and US Marine Corps being among the most obvious).

Dark forces, Jedi knight, Jedi outcast, rogue squadron, battlefront, etc, etc. Thrawn didn't disguise himself as an army soldier, but a stormtrooper.

If you want to say that the storm troopers are protecting the important locations, that is fine, then the players should be important enough to warrent fighting them.

Also, if there can be specialized stormtrooper types for every situation, what does the army do? Where are they? Why are they needed?