Biggs walks the dogs requires the purchase of 2 shuttles/ewings... when neither of those ship models are in the list.

A couple things about that.

1) Biggs walks the dogs is a popular list but far OP'ed, so you can hardly use that as an example of pay to win.

2) FFG has put Advanced Sensors in the E-Wing, meaning it's a lot cheaper to get 4 of those cards then it used to. They didn't have to do that.

3) It's not like you are buying models that you can't actually use, just because you want that AdvSen for your B's doesn't mean you'll never have a use for it on a Shuttle. Or even use the shuttle without it.

4) Pay to Win means you are able to buy stuff that gives you a huge advantage over everyone else. There's nothing you can buy in XWM that gives you that kind of advantage.

5) Pay to Win is a MMO term that doesn't really apply here in the first place. The whole idea is that I can buy something with money, rather then earn it in game.

thanks for taking one sentence and comment on it out of context.

1. I specifically mentioned balance is one of the factors making that very scenario not that big of a deal. Yet it is popular because the build is good. It could very well be an edge in a mirror match with someone without shuttles/e-wings. It is a really good example since it won last year.

2. ummm didn't I mention e-wing, ah yes I did. Lets forget there was 9 months where it wasn't a cheaper option. Its still not my point. Even if its cheaper to buy ewings for the upgrade cards... you are still buying an whole expansion for an upgrade card.

3. How do you know? Maybe I have 4 shuttles and only play b-wings? I would say yes it is fair that a person would have a shuttle in their collection, maybe 2. 3/4 are an extreme I would say. I am sure there are players that only play rebel, and up until now had to buy imperial models to get upgrades (or vice versa).

4. Again I will repeat their balance is one of the few things that makes it not game breaking. If (hopefully not) they release a must have upgrade then it will be an action "big" issue. Pay to Win means you can buy something(s) that have an actual effect on the game (not a skin or hat or something not effective). The Win part is BECAUSE some games truely make it over powered and I 100% agree with you they haven't yet. At the same time these upgrade cards are not hats or skins.

5. I disagree... IF there was a uber card in a huge ship that was usable in 100pts skirms, it would certainly be pay to win and everyone would be saying so. Granted this game is different in that you don't pay up front for all the models and only pay for the upgrades. I think we ALL can agree paying for the models you fly is completely fair.

I will be clear again... I think FFG has minimized competitive issues due to balance but the fact remains you MAY have to buy more models then you would use, just to get access to squad configurations you want. That is the truth, facts etc. Do you HAVE to? No you can still play today with just the core.

People seem to think because I dislike one thing FFG does I think they are bad and evil and x-wing is junk. Not the case at all. I still think they have done probably the best with non-mirror team balance in a long time. Models are awesome, well priced. I just don't like the fact they limit upgrades by expansions, when they could easily offer a card pack(s).

I get they are a small company and possibly make more money off the model expansions, they do a good job on everything else and as everyone agrees it is a balanced game so far so not a big deal. Yet saying it doesn't exist to any degree at all is not the truth imo.

..heck i would have purchased the "Big ships" just for display purposes!! but being able to use them in the game even better!! actually that's what attracted me to the game in the first place was the quality of the minis..

Exact same thing here

If you plan on playing casually, why not just use a squadron builder and print out the squad, needing nothing?

Competitively, well, that's the buy in then isn't it?

Putting cards that can be used in the normal game is just good marketing.

I have been working in marketing for quite sometime already and I can say that the transport was a good marketing move, the Tantive was an awfull one...

I have the money, but just by principle, I will never dish out $80 for 3P0 and Han crew card, because I know that I will play an Epic game once per 3 months about.

BUT

I did shell out 55$ bucks for the Transport, because of the different paint scheme on the X-Wing and the small ship upgrade cards. I was on the fence on that one since I almost never play epic, but having the new X-Wing model and the other pilot and upgrade cards was all that I needed and quite a lot of people in my playgroup bought it for that reason.

Now regarding the Tantive, well only a few of the hard-core fan bought it, because they will buy anything. But for the X-Wing fan who watch on how he invest into the game. The good oll saying in sales :" What's in it for me" has been observed only with the Transport.

They would have put an extra small base ship in the pack with the Tantive and they would have probably doubled their sales. Hopefully they learn from this mistake and they go the transport route for the huge imperial ship!

The assertion that only the "hardcore players" purchased the Tantive, "because they will anything" is completely wrong. There are plenty of players that aren't hardcore which enjoy the idea of Epic battles.

In fact, I'd bet most of the Epic players are the more casual crowd.

WE LOVE YOU SPACE WHALE!

In fact, I'd bet most of the Epic players are the more casual crowd.

Yup...I will joyfully spend all day to play a 600 point battle and have more fun than I should; based on my little $2,000 investment.

:wub:

Actually I realized after reading myself that there was a missing part in my original post . I was referring to hard core player who seldom if ever play epic games and will only buy because simply love star wars and the ship and they would buy even a ship at 200$ for just the sake of only having the model even if they do not play with it.

Of course if your a casual player and love epic game you will buy it. Anyway the whole post was not about that but about the bad marketing move that they did with the Tantive but yet did a great move with the Transport.

Add some small base ship cards and upgrades for 100 pts game and you will have seen a big sale increase with their Tantive.

I think the Tantive has less impact on small games intentionally. The Transport has a fairly sizable impact, but is MSRP $60 and readily available for $40-50. That makes it, as someone said, more like an Aces pack with a bonus transport.

The Tantive is considerably more pricey. Thus they made its impact smaller. Sure, the crew are neat. Outside of 3P0 though, I see them as quite niche. R2 is better on a ship with a crew slot and decent agility (so your more likely to have no shields and no damage), Leia is... something, I haven't really figured her out yet, and Han is neat on smaller ships, but really seems to be made to give one huge ship a focus like effect.

Outside of 3P0 though

With Tantive most are for huge ship and truly only one card that make quite a big impact on Falcon builds, that is my main problem and hopefully they catch that and get wiser next time for the next huge ship

I'm not a hardcore player, and I bought the tantive. I bought it because I love cool models, I love starwars, and I love x wing. Will I use it a lot? Probably not, but I have used it a couple of times, and enjoyed firing my primary weapon across the table.

Everything else that came with it was gravy. If I use it 10 times a year, then I'm happy that it's a good investment. An epic game takes at least two hours, so that equates to about £3 an hour for a year of epic entertainment. I have other hobbies that cost far more, and that I get less enjoyment from. Hell, I blow double the price of the tantive every time I go out on the lash, so for me personally, it's not a big deal.

I think ffg are doing an incredible job with this game. I'm waiting impatiently for my wave 4 delivery to arrive this morning....

Millions of pounds? I picked one up for £55. Seems like a fair price to me. If you don't have a C3PO card, it hardly breaks the game. For casual games, just print out a copy. If you want to use it in a tournament, then buy one from ebay or buy a tantive. It's not exactly like FFG have murdered babies.

As long as they are keeping most of the people happy most of the time, then they are doing it right.

Epic games & huge ships on 6x3 are great. We have been playing this way since wave 1&2. Using 2D cut-outs for huge ships. But, it is a longer game.

The "beef" is not the cash alone, it is the exclusivity of the cards on a ship not suitable for regular format (atleast, not right now), if you could acquire those cards through regular non epic expansions, it would be perfectly fine.

C-3PO is only a staple until more people start using Outmaneuver. Then, he is an expensive card that is wasted. He's good, no doubt, but he doesn't make the prior Falcon builds unplayable.

Chewbacca is also a good alternative to C-3PO as they both provide a similar function at a similar cost.

I can see why it might be slightly annoying if someone feels like they need to buy an expansion that they otherwise would not have bought just to get a card or two. However, there are many successful build permutations for almost any list archetype that do not require such a thing.

FFG has packaged and sold their expansions the way they have for whatever reason they had to do so. We as consumers can try and guess at those reasons or complain about how this methodology does not match up to our individual preferences, but ultimately FFG is a company. Anyone providing a good or service knows that you can't please everyone, and if there are people that will get upset over something as small as not having an upgrade card they wanted in a small ship expansion, sometimes you just have to accept it. Those customers will either get over it and live without that card, give in and buy the expansion, or maybe even just quit the game, but they are a small number and will not greatly affect the company's success.

First world problems

When I bought a second shuttle (basically) for the AdvSens it did not bother me so much as I could potentially see myself running a list with two shuttles. If I ever wanted to competitively use those 4 pilots, 4 droids, 4 crew that come with the huge ships I need to shell out big bucks for some huge ships that I would literally never use as they are actually forbidden in the most popular format of this game.

Sell the crew cards you will never use on ebay.

i dont understand what the problem with c3po is...its only good once for round, it means that it just gives it an aditional evade

Well my argument is If I spend a hundred bucks on something it Better have something good with it.

Given how often it sees play having upgrade cards that can also be used with some other ships only makes sense.

Too bad so sad.

It's only a card no big deal

If Someone really wants it, then buy it or find someone willing to part with it.

No sense bitchin about it

The huge ships do make very cool obstacles in the 100 point game.

There were cards with the Huge ships?

Oh yeah, I remember those now. That was the least fun part about them, spending a whole evening putting sleeves on all the new cards and organizing all the tokens. Wait, even that was kind of fun. I reorganized all my storage as a result and was happier with the outcome.

I look forward to the next huge ship(s), whatever it may be.

Chewbacca is also a good alternative to C-3PO as they both provide a similar function at a similar cost.

I can see why it might be slightly annoying if someone feels like they need to buy an expansion that they otherwise would not have bought just to get a card or two. However, there are many successful build permutations for almost any list archetype that do not require such a thing.

FFG has packaged and sold their expansions the way they have for whatever reason they had to do so. We as consumers can try and guess at those reasons or complain about how this methodology does not match up to our individual preferences, but ultimately FFG is a company. Anyone providing a good or service knows that you can't please everyone, and if there are people that will get upset over something as small as not having an upgrade card they wanted in a small ship expansion, sometimes you just have to accept it. Those customers will either get over it and live without that card, give in and buy the expansion, or maybe even just quit the game, but they are a small number and will not greatly affect the company's success.

First world problems

Based on that, it's not about those who don't want to buy, that will get over it or just pay anyway. It's about as a company, you will find a way to sell it and that it become attractive to a larger chunk of your customer base and you will make more sales out of it, more money and happier customers .

That is what they did with the Transport and they should have done it for the Tantive too. It is simply bad sales/marketing right there. They sold some for sure, but they could have sold even more and would have had happier customers at the same time. I am not talking about satisfying every customers either...

Don't get me wrong. They were doing an excellent job so far and they have an amazing game. But even big companies even with big sales/marketing department drop the ball once in a while and they did it with the Tantive, that's it, no big deal. Hopefully for the next huge ship they go back with something like the transport!

Don't get me wrong. They were doing an excellent job so far and they have an amazing game. But even big companies even with big sales/marketing department drop the ball once in a while and they did it with the Tantive, that's it, no big deal. Hopefully for the next huge ship they go back with something like the transport!

I don't think they did drop the ball. They used the transport as a mechanism to get people interested in epic play. They made the tantive specifically for epic play. If they'd included a small ship or something with it, they'd have pushed its price up even more. A couple of crew cards that play in regular games is a very small compromise to reward those that invested in it.

I hope they follow exactly the same model with imperial huge ships.

This entire game and every other hobby is 100% discretionary spending.

You could always pick up 4 core boxes on clearance and for $80 have a highly competitive swarm.