Wander over to Games Workshop and build a 1000 point army in your shopping cart.

I put what I could remember of my list, which was 1500 points... It came to $560.

I is nice to see some people let you voice your rant without abuse. Everyone seems to have different takes on games in general. By definition games should be excess cash. Some people have more, some people wish they had more, etc. Comparing Star Wars to a GW game is only good if you play both. One could compare Star War to dominos or checkers but some how that misses the point. The OP said he recognized it is a business yet so many feel the need to point this out again and again. The X-Wing that came with the GR-75 has miffed more than a couple of people. Enough of my rant.

However getting back on-topic okay well sort of... My concern is, of course, the cost but indirectly. I've seen some games bury themselves by their own sheer weight. Not in kgs/lbs but in expansions. At some point, and there has been a few, a game gets so many expansions that even though you could play with just the basics you often won't want to. Then there becomes so many options an occasional player begins feeling overwhelmed. What went best with what? Someone told me of a fun combo but... hang on I need to look through my 100+ cards to figure it out. Sure I'd put together a squad for a casual game give me an hour...

I'm not saying we are there and I know many feel that games somehow can't survive without expansions every few months (IMHO that may be a myth). But at some point wouldn't it be best to say 'Here guys, here is a complete game with 30 expansions tops. We thinks it's fun. Buy it in stages if you like and go for it.'

Thoughts?

[Edited] P.S. I love the space whale.

...young people with excess money would buy these ships up but this still bugs me to no end.

This made me laugh. Oh yes...I have oodles and oodles of money to excessive proportion; oh, and I'm 12 years old.

Thank you FFG for catering only to a Young and Excessively Rich Demographic.

I love this game, but I have no interest in epic play. I have a full time job, a wife, a daughter and other commitments. Every once in a while I can get out for a tournament and I love it. I really love 100 point games.

When I bought a second shuttle (basically) for the AdvSens it did not bother me so much as I could potentially see myself running a list with two shuttles. If I ever wanted to competitively use those 4 pilots, 4 droids, 4 crew that come with the huge ships I need to shell out big bucks for some huge ships that I would literally never use as they are actually forbidden in the most popular format of this game.

I know that Fantasy Flight is a business and they made these decisions knowing young people with excess money would buy these ships up but this still bugs me to no end.

Thanks for reading

[/rant]

Then don't buy them.

All you miss out is the unique X-wing pilots and unique astromechs, which players only ever need one of and thus can be got off eBay and the like. Everything else is Huge Ship Only or in Wave 4.

Also worth noting that myself and several other people in my gaming group knew people who wanted multiple transports for Epic play, where some of us wanted the X-wing stuff and didn't care as much about Epic. I had a friend sell me the repainted X-wing, plus pilots and upgrades for $20 or something - a little more than it would have cost if it was sold in an individual blister pack, but a lot less than the whole Transport would have. There were at least three of these floating around in local circles alone, and - conversely - a market where you could a Transport, just keep the X-wing stuff, and unload the Epic stuff and recoup most of your money to someone who just wanted the Epic bits.

WE LOVE YOU SPACE WHALE!

Lend them from friends that do have the transport or just print them out! The cards are available here;

http://www.afewmaneuvers.com/topic/573-full-card-list-by-expansion/

If you want to play any game at a high level its going to cost you a lot. Most are much more expensive than X-wing.

You can also buy the cards off eBay if you really want them. There's a guy in the UK who had the Han crew card for like $15 after shipping. Considerably less than the cost of a Tantive.

100% agree. When I want to play a BIG game of spaceships, I play Firestorm Armada. I have zero interest in huge ships, but would very much like to have the unique X-Wing pilots. Asked around my local area, and it doesn't look like anyone has extras. Looked around on eBay a bit, and I don't see the unique X-Wing stuff from the Transport for sale there either...

I'd just like to point out that even at the last tournament style event I played at, I lent out several upgrade cards to people who didn't have copies.

I'd prefer to beat you/lose to you at your best, and plus you can't come back later with the "IF ONLY I HAD THAT CARD!"

FFG please produce a Neb frig with small ship upgrades that are powerfull that will force complainers to buy them.

...young people with excess money would buy these ships up but this still bugs me to no end.

This made me laugh. Oh yes...I have oodles and oodles of money to excessive proportion; oh, and I'm 12 years old.

Thank you FFG for catering only to a Young and Excessively Rich Demographic.

I have yet to play a game of epic and have both the transport and tant. I"m considering buying 3 more tants because I enjoyed opening the box.

FFG please produce a Neb frig with small ship upgrades that are powerfull that will force complainers to buy them.

Nooooooooooooooo don't do it! I love the Nebulon B. I won't buy it; I won't buy it; I won't buy it. Oh where did all this star wars stuff come from.

While I think it is a bit lame they sort of have a semi-pay to win system, they over all provide a very good value for your money and is good to the community. It is far from the most abusive system. They have tended to include cards in multiple releases etc.

You would think they could actually make more money selling card packs then the full model expansions, but I don't know the costs involved.

My suggestion would be to not play in tournaments and keep things casual if it bugs you that much. The same places with tournies probably have an informal night where you can proxie cards etc.

The way I look at it, if being "competitive" in a official tourney isn't worth the monetary costs then you really are just playing fun so who cares if you are limited in cards. Otherwise if you are THAT competitive, fork out the money.

If you want to be competitive in ANY sort of organized level you have to put in the extra time and money. Nothing different in x-wing.

FFG please produce a Neb frig with small ship upgrades that are powerfull that will force complainers to buy them.

Nooooooooooooooo don't do it! I love the Nebulon B. I won't buy it; I won't buy it; I won't buy it. Oh where did all this star wars stuff come from.

Do it FFG! But make it good, something that's special order direct only at least $2,000.00. Send me an IM when you done to collect funds.

While I think it is a bit lame they sort of have a semi-pay to win system, they over all provide a very good value for your money and is good to the community. It is far from the most abusive system. They have tended to include cards in multiple releases etc.

You would think they could actually make more money selling card packs then the full model expansions, but I don't know the costs involved.

My suggestion would be to not play in tournaments and keep things casual if it bugs you that much. The same places with tournies probably have an informal night where you can proxie cards etc.

The way I look at it, if being "competitive" in a official tourney isn't worth the monetary costs then you really are just playing fun so who cares if you are limited in cards. Otherwise if you are THAT competitive, fork out the money.

If you want to be competitive in ANY sort of organized level you have to put in the extra time and money. Nothing different in x-wing.

It's not a pay to win system. It's a pay to play (at some point) system. Buy what you want. Don't buy what you don't want. No one is being forced to buy anything.

I have both the Transport and the Corvette and have not rolled dice to make either one of them do a thing. That doesn't matter to me at all. For those with a 40K background, I equate these models to Forgeworld and Apocalypse. These are really big and beautiful models that will sit on a shelf and look great in a display case. And on the rare occasion that you decide to blow the dust off of them and play an epic game, they are just pure fun and REAALY add to the epic experience. For the most part, until there are more Epic competitive events out there or you have more people around you who want to play in an Epic game, these are luxury items for the most part.

I have held firm that they should have had more standard cards (not less) in the Corvette, just like they did with the transport, so that the cost was a little easier for Standard players to swallow. However these are still prized parts to my X-Wing collection!

Isn't that the beauty of this game? There isn't one list that is auto-win. And a new person can go out and buy a core an x and a falcon and have a tourney viable list? If anything FFG should be cheered for how cheap this game is in comparison to other mini games. For about $100 retail you can run a list that can win with the right pilot. It's not like you need Wes to fly a competent x wing squad.

While I think it is a bit lame they sort of have a semi-pay to win system, they over all provide a very good value for your money and is good to the community. It is far from the most abusive system. They have tended to include cards in multiple releases etc.

You would think they could actually make more money selling card packs then the full model expansions, but I don't know the costs involved.

My suggestion would be to not play in tournaments and keep things casual if it bugs you that much. The same places with tournies probably have an informal night where you can proxie cards etc.

The way I look at it, if being "competitive" in a official tourney isn't worth the monetary costs then you really are just playing fun so who cares if you are limited in cards. Otherwise if you are THAT competitive, fork out the money.

If you want to be competitive in ANY sort of organized level you have to put in the extra time and money. Nothing different in x-wing.

It's not a pay to win system. It's a pay to play (at some point) system. Buy what you want. Don't buy what you don't want. No one is being forced to buy anything.

lol no matter how you want to word it, it is a fact that you will have to buy expansions for ships you might not use to be able to use particular upgrades.

Biggs walks the dogs requires the purchase of 2 shuttles/ewings... when neither of those ship models are in the list.

Everything people have brought up, cheaper mini game, balance etc... They are all reasons why the current system of upgrade cards distribution isn't a big problem currently. NONE are a reason why they are NOT trying to either manipulate usage or sales of certain expansions/upgrades.

I think it is curious that FFG allows 3rd party templates officially yet do not allow proxy cards? Its not like people and TOs wouldn't be able to easily figure out "cheat" cards. Cards aren't used for measurement or anything else in actual game play area. A argument could be made that if ANYTHING to be limited to official FFG product, it would be dice, templates, bases, obstacles. Yet templates are commonly proxied with 3rd party versions.

Do I think FFG is evil and scum of the earth for marketing their game like this? No way. While its not what I would consider the most customer friendly things, as been brought up they otherwise are great to the content, the game, and the fans.

I sure will not ignore the fact they are trying to manipulate players into buying product they might not completely need or use.

I understand the OP's gripe. Buying Lambdas to put Advanced Sensors on B-Wings is ridiculous, but that was what Heaver's list had and to even try a competitive list like that a tournament you have to have the cards on you somehow. C3PO is amazing on the Falcon, Han is also great and maybe also R2-D2 as a crew, but other than that there is no reason to even touch the Tantive IV if you only plan on playing competitively. Balancing family time and X-Wing is a totally different personal thing that many shouldn't have a say in when it comes to the main point of getting the cards.

My recommendation would be to buy it, swipe it for the three crew cards and sell it for a discounted price with an obvious disclaimer that C3PO, Han, and R2 are not included. You may have to discount it $10-$20, but you'll be saving in whatever you could get back, and if there is a big casual scene (which I'm assuming there is if you're local gaming community plays that much X-Wing competitively) you'd have no problem buying a Tantive on eBay/Coolstuff/MM for about 33% off MSRP and flipping the rest for $50.

Biggs walks the dogs requires the purchase of 2 shuttles/ewings... when neither of those ship models are in the list.

A couple things about that.

1) Biggs walks the dogs is a popular list but far OP'ed, so you can hardly use that as an example of pay to win.

2) FFG has put Advanced Sensors in the E-Wing, meaning it's a lot cheaper to get 4 of those cards then it used to. They didn't have to do that.

3) It's not like you are buying models that you can't actually use, just because you want that AdvSen for your B's doesn't mean you'll never have a use for it on a Shuttle. Or even use the shuttle without it.

4) Pay to Win means you are able to buy stuff that gives you a huge advantage over everyone else. There's nothing you can buy in XWM that gives you that kind of advantage.

5) Pay to Win is a MMO term that doesn't really apply here in the first place. The whole idea is that I can buy something with money, rather then earn it in game.

This debate is turning into a pay-to-win/play debate, which probably deserves its own header, because that topic is larger than that of just the huge ships.

I'm sure such a debate thread is already out there, but.... I don't care, I'm going to start a new one anyway. So there.

But, on the topic of huge ships. I bought the transport for campaign/mission play alone. The fact that it comes with flechette torpedoes which are nice and cheap to put on my TIE/sa bombers, is just a nice add-on.

Of course, the OP says he's only interested in 6a100pDMs, so our motivations differ significantly.

Yes Epic play is not that popular. Most people by the ships for the upgrades such as Han Solo or R3-A2.

I think the problem with Epic play is well for one the Imperial Side has no Epic Ships. Now I know people are thinking a scale Star Destroyer would take up the table and they would be right but scale it down to a little over twice the length of the corvette and then you have a Star Destroyer that can be played on a X-Wing table that is still the biggest baddest ship out there.

Now there are those who are "Tournament" Only and nothing wrong with that but I say it gets repetitive and boring after a while.

As for the casual I say just buy 2 sets and keep the Imperial and Rebel Sides equal in power with 4 expansions because you will more likely be playing with people who do not own a set and will have to borrow yours.

I love this game, but I have no interest in epic play. I have a full time job, a wife, a daughter and other commitments. Every once in a while I can get out for a tournament and I love it. I really love 100 point games.

When I bought a second shuttle (basically) for the AdvSens it did not bother me so much as I could potentially see myself running a list with two shuttles. If I ever wanted to competitively use those 4 pilots, 4 droids, 4 crew that come with the huge ships I need to shell out big bucks for some huge ships that I would literally never use as they are actually forbidden in the most popular format of this game.

I know that Fantasy Flight is a business and they made these decisions knowing young people with excess money would buy these ships up but this still bugs me to no end.

Thanks for reading

[/rant]

would just like to point out, that in an epic game, you are not required to use any huge ships.

you can take 300 points of fighters from either faction and still compete against the huge ships, because this here game isnt broken (like 40k - shameless dig)

..heck i would have purchased the "Big ships" just for display purposes!! but being able to use them in the game even better!! actually that's what attracted me to the game in the first place was the quality of the minis..