So since I got my Defender at Imdaar I've tried this combo a few times, and every single time it has come through for me and then some. Cheap enough that you don't have to fret about its longevity, but effective enough on its own right. You can take evades all you want and still have a bit of attack modification in. In particular, during our last league match (and by last i mean both the most recent and the final Epic conclusion), I had one of them in there and he proved devastating. He killed Ibtisam, put damage on a transport, and put damage on Biggs and thanks to his evade tokens lasted much longer than he should have. Pff. Who needs Howlrunner when you're a member of Darth Vader's personal squadron?
Black Squadron TIE and Predator: A Match Made In Heaven, Apparently...
Oh and FYI that Epic Finale was a 2 v. 2 150 point each Team Epic game.
I really wish Night Beast and Backstabber had EPTs. But yeah. This combo looks great. A little more expensive than I'd like but 17 is still cheap and it's more reliable than Mauler.
Indeed. Certainly, where you're fielding a 'mini swarm' it seems more reliable to field howlrunner's points worth of predator upgrades strikes me as a nice idea. You end up with five TIEs instead of 6-7, but there's no single vulnerable model to destroy that will knock out your bonus, you can break formation and attack in loose packs (useful against assault missiles, etc) and you fire before most generic opponents instead of after.
I often use Black Squadron - Mithel, Backstabber, Dark Curse and two Generics, and I must say that giving them Predator will be tempting.
My default squad at the moment is:
- Mauler Mithel - Stealth Device, Opportunist
- Backstabber - Stealth Device
- Dark Curse - Stealth Device
- Black Squadron Pilot - Stealth Device, Veteran Instincts
- Black Squadron Pilot - Stealth Device, Veteran Instincts
Might be worth swapping to:
- Mauler Mithel - Hull Upgrade, Swarm Tactics
- Backstabber - Hull Upgrade
- Dark Curse - Hull Upgrade
- Black Squadron Pilot - Hull Upgrade, Predator
- Black Squadron Pilot - Hull Upgrade, Predator
if I can get the cards. People are saying they prefer Hull Upgrades to Stealth Devices - I can see the logic as it takes dice out of the equation. Not sure if it might be better to stick with stealth on something as evade-ey as a TIE/ln, though.
Before someone says it, I know you could get an academy pilot instead but I just don't like throwing random dudes into imperial squads.
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Yeah it's only 5 Tie Fighters but every last one of them is hard to hit while still getting a decent attack modifier. This could be an interesting build.
Or hull upgrades instead 
I saw the 5 x BSP + Predator and Night Beast squad used for the first time, and I was quite impressed. Really adds power for fighting against Academy Ties and such. This card really hurts the action denial game in more ways than one. Im gonna sneak a couple into my lists and see how it fairs. Or even try the big swarm.
Thanks for reminding of this card, That One Guy.
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Yeah it's only 5 Tie Fighters but every last one of them is hard to hit while still getting a decent attack modifier. This could be an interesting build.
I dunno, I trust Hull Upgrades more than **** dirty evasion dice.
/salty from rolling all blanks last night with his Defender against a Firespray's HLC that rolled 3 hits
Why not take it a step further?
Howlrunner (Predator, Hull Upgrade) 24
Mauler Mithel (Predator, Hull Upgrade) 23
Black Squadron Pilot (Predator) 17
Black Squadron Pilot (Predator) 17
Black Squadron Pilot (Predator) 17
98 points total for initiative against other PS4 lists, Howl lets the others re-roll 2 of their attack dice (read: all of them at range 2-3) and Mauler is a better black squadron tie than the generics.
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Yeah it's only 5 Tie Fighters but every last one of them is hard to hit while still getting a decent attack modifier. This could be an interesting build.
Or hull upgrades instead
I saw the 5 x BSP + Predator and Night Beast squad used for the first time, and I was quite impressed. Really adds power for fighting against Academy Ties and such. This card really hurts the action denial game in more ways than one. Im gonna sneak a couple into my lists and see how it fairs. Or even try the big swarm.
Thanks for reminding of this card, That One Guy.
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Yeah it's only 5 Tie Fighters but every last one of them is hard to hit while still getting a decent attack modifier. This could be an interesting build.
I dunno, I trust Hull Upgrades more than **** dirty evasion dice.
/salty from rolling all blanks last night with his Defender against a Firespray's HLC that rolled 3 hits
Yeah, that false sense of security from Stealth Device goes out the window when you roll 5 evade dice and get all blanks to your opponents 3 attack, 3 hits and he one shots you... Still steaming from the last casual game I had when Lorrir went out like a chump before he had a chance to even fire. - Dice Gods, why do you mock me so???
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Yeah it's only 5 Tie Fighters but every last one of them is hard to hit while still getting a decent attack modifier. This could be an interesting build.
I dunno, I trust Hull Upgrades more than **** dirty evasion dice.
/salty from rolling all blanks last night with his Defender against a Firespray's HLC that rolled 3 hits
Sure, another way to go about it. My argument would be to not focus the BSP with stealth but rather Evade all day and let the re-roll fix the attack. With Hull upgrade you get the guarantee one extra damage, that makes it the sure bet. Stealth can net you two extra damage and thus doubles the effect for the same cost. we can look at the math and see
4 agility vs 3 attack no actions is EDO .49
3 agility vs 3 attack no actions is EDO .67
4 agility with evade vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .34
3 agility with evade vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .49
4 agility with focus vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .35
3 agility with focus vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .63
As we can see the ships are elusive as hell either way. The gamble is 34% of the time you will lose that stealth 2 of 3 shots will not get it. nearly 50% of the time the first shot takes that hull but you still have 3 to go.
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Yeah it's only 5 Tie Fighters but every last one of them is hard to hit while still getting a decent attack modifier. This could be an interesting build.
I dunno, I trust Hull Upgrades more than **** dirty evasion dice.
/salty from rolling all blanks last night with his Defender against a Firespray's HLC that rolled 3 hits
Sure, another way to go about it. My argument would be to not focus the BSP with stealth but rather Evade all day and let the re-roll fix the attack. With Hull upgrade you get the guarantee one extra damage, that makes it the sure bet. Stealth can net you two extra damage and thus doubles the effect for the same cost. we can look at the math and see
4 agility vs 3 attack no actions is EDO .49
3 agility vs 3 attack no actions is EDO .67
4 agility with evade vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .34
3 agility with evade vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .49
4 agility with focus vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .35
3 agility with focus vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .63
As we can see the ships are elusive as hell either way. The gamble is 34% of the time you will lose that stealth 2 of 3 shots will not get it. nearly 50% of the time the first shot takes that hull but you still have 3 to go.
Mass evade is unlikely to be effective, due to the way focus fire works. Evade is best used to make one or two ships harder targets to attack.
Yup I agree. We have to assume the enemy will focus on one of the Tie's to take it down. The reason to Evade all of them is to not leave an easy choice to attack. here is the math for the BSP attack with evade against 2 agility. If the defender has a focus you will have an EDO of .42 if the Defender loses the focus it has an EDO of .77. Now with Focus on the Ties the EDO is .65 with the defender having focued and 1.10 without. hmmmm....so with Focus being the choice you have a reasonable chance of killing an X-Wing on the first exchange while all evades does not. Focus looks like the way to go. Focus also netted you about the same defense with 4 dice as evade did. 3 agility with evade avoids damage better than focus but looses the punch to take out an X-wing. 4 Agility performs better with focus on defense and leaves the option to hit back alot harder while keeping the elusiveness.
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Yeah it's only 5 Tie Fighters but every last one of them is hard to hit while still getting a decent attack modifier. This could be an interesting build.
I dunno, I trust Hull Upgrades more than **** dirty evasion dice.
/salty from rolling all blanks last night with his Defender against a Firespray's HLC that rolled 3 hits
Yeah, that false sense of security from Stealth Device goes out the window when you roll 5 evade dice and get all blanks to your opponents 3 attack, 3 hits and he one shots you... Still steaming from the last casual game I had when Lorrir went out like a chump before he had a chance to even fire. - Dice Gods, why do you mock me so???
Because they want you to know that you're better off mathematically speaking to pay 3 points for hull upgrade instead of stealth device.
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Yeah it's only 5 Tie Fighters but every last one of them is hard to hit while still getting a decent attack modifier. This could be an interesting build.
I dunno, I trust Hull Upgrades more than **** dirty evasion dice.
/salty from rolling all blanks last night with his Defender against a Firespray's HLC that rolled 3 hits
Sure, another way to go about it. My argument would be to not focus the BSP with stealth but rather Evade all day and let the re-roll fix the attack. With Hull upgrade you get the guarantee one extra damage, that makes it the sure bet. Stealth can net you two extra damage and thus doubles the effect for the same cost. we can look at the math and see
4 agility vs 3 attack no actions is EDO .49
3 agility vs 3 attack no actions is EDO .67
4 agility with evade vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .34
3 agility with evade vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .49
4 agility with focus vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .35
3 agility with focus vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .63
As we can see the ships are elusive as hell either way. The gamble is 34% of the time you will lose that stealth 2 of 3 shots will not get it. nearly 50% of the time the first shot takes that hull but you still have 3 to go.
pfft, probabilities are for protocol droids and jugglers
In a friendly just over 100 pts match I tried 3 BS with outmaneuver and 3 BS with predator. My opponent had an XB and Falcon. I flew the ties as a flank and a joust. Devastating killing the falcon in 2 rounds and mopping up after. I will be experimenting to try and fit something similar into 100 pts.
In a friendly just over 100 pts match I tried 3 BS with outmaneuver and 3 BS with predator. My opponent had an XB and Falcon. I flew the ties as a flank and a joust. Devastating killing the falcon in 2 rounds and mopping up after. I will be experimenting to try and fit something similar into 100 pts.
I've actually considered something similar with 3 BSP with Predator, and 2 Sabers with Outmaneuver
5 BSP + night beast is the only squad on this page I think is an actual contender. FFG had a nice idea to try to curb the meta a bit with predator, but then derped it up and put it in only one of the new packs while they put the much less useful outmaneuver in two. People get way carried away with outmaneuver. It's ok but will only work well on a few ships. I expect it to be slightly more common than opportunist, whereas predator works pretty well on just about anything with an EPT. It'll be as popular as push the limit or swarm tactics.
I really don't see the appeal of this. You're only saving one point compared to a basic TIE interceptor with better guns. Is PS 4 really that much of a priority?
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Yeah it's only 5 Tie Fighters but every last one of them is hard to hit while still getting a decent attack modifier. This could be an interesting build.
I dunno, I trust Hull Upgrades more than **** dirty evasion dice.
/salty from rolling all blanks last night with his Defender against a Firespray's HLC that rolled 3 hits
Sure, another way to go about it. My argument would be to not focus the BSP with stealth but rather Evade all day and let the re-roll fix the attack. With Hull upgrade you get the guarantee one extra damage, that makes it the sure bet. Stealth can net you two extra damage and thus doubles the effect for the same cost. we can look at the math and see
4 agility vs 3 attack no actions is EDO .49
3 agility vs 3 attack no actions is EDO .67
4 agility with evade vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .34
3 agility with evade vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .49
4 agility with focus vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .35
3 agility with focus vs 3 attack with focus is EDO .63
As we can see the ships are elusive as hell either way. The gamble is 34% of the time you will lose that stealth 2 of 3 shots will not get it. nearly 50% of the time the first shot takes that hull but you still have 3 to go.
pfft, probabilities are for protocol droids and jugglers
"never tell me the odds"!
yes black squadron pilots are still the cheapest ship with an EPT and are not unique to boot. could really do some awesome things in epic with more than 100 points to work with. Plus every time a new EPT comes out we get new options. Man i love this game!
I really don't see the appeal of this. You're only saving one point compared to a basic TIE interceptor with better guns. Is PS 4 really that much of a priority?
Yes. Alpha squadrons that take a action to position do pretty much the same damage as Predatory BSP's and shoot much later. Countering the PS of most generics is a huge boon for the BSP as well.
I really don't see the appeal of this. You're only saving one point compared to a basic TIE interceptor with better guns. Is PS 4 really that much of a priority?
PS4 with initiative shoots before every generic except Royal Guard, and with concentrated fire, 5 ties will take out a small ship. Once you have that advantage, you just need to hold on
PS4 with initiative shoots before every generic except Royal Guard, and with concentrated fire, 5 ties will take out a small ship. Once you have that advantage, you just need to hold onI really don't see the appeal of this. You're only saving one point compared to a basic TIE interceptor with better guns. Is PS 4 really that much of a priority?
That leaves you killing Interceptors, x-wings, ties, and z-95s.
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Black Squadron Pilot + Predator + Stealth Device (20)
Yeah it's only 5 Tie Fighters but every last one of them is hard to hit while still getting a decent attack modifier. This could be an interesting build.
I dunno, I trust Hull Upgrades more than **** dirty evasion dice.
/salty from rolling all blanks last night with his Defender against a Firespray's HLC that rolled 3 hits
Yeah, that false sense of security from Stealth Device goes out the window when you roll 5 evade dice and get all blanks to your opponents 3 attack, 3 hits and he one shots you... Still steaming from the last casual game I had when Lorrir went out like a chump before he had a chance to even fire. - Dice Gods, why do you mock me so???
I want to make a shirt that has a picture of various dice with stick figure arms and legs standing around a table and 1 of them has just slammed a knife into a peice of paper on that table. the caption will read: "Yes, my dice actual plot against me!"
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball, and if you can kill six TIEs you can kill six TIEs. The sun rises and the sun sets, but there is nothing new beneath it.