Everyone's very excited about Vessery, but his ability, while kind of cool, is hard to capitalize on efficiently.

It seems so easy, just TL his target with something else. But Vessery is PS6, and you soon realize that any ship you really want to use TL in Empire is probably a higher PS than him - which means they're going to use it before he fires. Darth Vader would love to pair up with Vessery, especially with Proton Rockets coming along, but that TL disappears fast. Soontil Fel + TC, another common Empire TL piece, has the same issue.

The other ships with TL are so expensive that you're definitely ending up with a 3 ship list, pairing it with ST-321 shuttles, Bounty Hunters, Storm/Tempest squadron TIE/Advs, or other Defenders.

Then, finally, the last problem. If you dedicate another ship's action to TLing Vessery's target, you're likely wasting that ship's action unless it's the first round of shooting at a tanky ship like a B-Wing.

It's a lot of trouble for what is effectively using Squad Leader on another ship...

I've actually been looking at pairing up Vessery with a pair of Sigmas with FCS and Weapons Engineers, we'll see what happens with it.

Everyone's very excited about Vessery, but his ability, while kind of cool, is hard to capitalize on efficiently.

It seems so easy, just TL his target with something else. But Vessery is PS6, and you soon realize that any ship you really want to use TL in Empire is probably a higher PS than him - which means they're going to use it before he fires. Darth Vader would love to pair up with Vessery, especially with Proton Rockets coming along, but that TL disappears fast. Soontil Fel + TC, another common Empire TL piece, has the same issue.

The other ships with TL are so expensive that you're definitely ending up with a 3 ship list, pairing it with ST-321 shuttles, Bounty Hunters, Storm/Tempest squadron TIE/Advs, or other Defenders.

Then, finally, the last problem. If you dedicate another ship's action to TLing Vessery's target, you're likely wasting that ship's action unless it's the first round of shooting at a tanky ship like a B-Wing.

It's a lot of trouble for what is effectively using Squad Leader on another ship...

Have you considered Tie Bombers?

Scimitars come in at 16 points, PS2 and have a remarkably similar dial to the defender.

You could also stick Targetting computer on a couple of academy ties? You don't have to spend the lock, just sit with it on all game or until a better opportunity to spend it. You could even put it on a couple of higher skilled Ties. Night Beast would be a good option.

Night beast would be perfect for this, the TL isn't wasted and he's PS 5.

I was thinking about running Vessery with VI, Brath and an Omnicron with Fleet Officer and ST-321.

The shuttle can paint targets anywhere on the board, giving Vessery a guaranteed target lock, while Fleet Officer lets the Omnicron give out focus tokens, making Brath more deadly (and Vessery more slippery). The reason for VI on Vessery is to let him shoort before Brath. Brath's ability is useless if you're shooting at shields, so it's essential to have a way to let Vessery strip as much shields as he can before Brath begins shooting.

Just pairing him with Echo or Whisper when they are using FCS will mean they've got a lock after they've fired, No wasted actions

Also - a fairly fun little combo with Vessery - Squad leader. Vessery gives a TL action to another ship - say a P.s. 2 scimitar that focused... now the Scimitar gets a lock at Vessery's P.S. - and, when vessery shoots, it's like he took his own TL action... AND the scimitar gets a TL + Focus stack.

Also - a fairly fun little combo with Vessery - Squad leader. Vessery gives a TL action to another ship - say a P.s. 2 scimitar that focused... now the Scimitar gets a lock at Vessery's P.S. - and, when vessery shoots, it's like he took his own TL action... AND the scimitar gets a TL + Focus stack.

I'd rather he get a focus for defense, but it is a cool trick.

Only seen Defenders in action 3 times.

One got slapped by an E-Wing. One flew in front of two B-Wings and was vaporised and one was gunned down by 2 A-wings with opportunist...

Could have been the dice, but not impressed.

Scared of the (imho Broken) Phantom though...

Scared of the (imho Broken) Phantom though...

That is not a particularly humble assertion.

Scared of the (imho Broken) Phantom though...

That is not a particularly humble assertion.

The named defenders are great, the generics are poo.

PS 1 & 3 makes me a sad panda.

I disagree. We have a player here who's been running 3 PS1 Defenders (kitbashed from Interceptors) with Stealth Devices and has done very well with them.

Scared of the (imho Broken) Phantom though...

That is not a particularly humble assertion.

But it could certainly be honest.

Scared of the (imho Broken) Phantom though...

That is not a particularly humble assertion.

But it could certainly be honest.

True enough, but I think there has been way too much speculating and not enough playing with the (especially imperial) wave 4 ships. The Defender and Phantom are going to require new list building and tactics both to use and to counter effectively.

It doesn't matter how much arc you cover, if you're not PS 8 you'll be shooting against 4 evade dice with focus.

It doesn't matter how much arc you cover, if you're not PS 8 you'll be shooting against 4 evade dice with focus.

A bit late to the discussion, but I too am a bit disappointed. I liked Vessery's ability on paper, thinking of running him as a HLC platform...and then I realized I could run Krassis Trelix with HLC for 1 more point. For 1 more point I would get 4 more total HP, and I don't need to build an entire squad distinctly around him.

I'm not saying that it's a totally bad pilot, I just don't see as much use from it. I think the generic pilots are of much more use.

A bit late to the discussion, but I too am a bit disappointed. I liked Vessery's ability on paper, thinking of running him as a HLC platform...and then I realized I could run Krassis Trelix with HLC for 1 more point. For 1 more point I would get 4 more total HP, and I don't need to build an entire squad distinctly around him.

I'm not saying that it's a totally bad pilot, I just don't see as much use from it. I think the generic pilots are of much more use.

Im preferring the Delta over other Defenders this far. The PS 1 means I know if I needed to keep my focus for defense. Without a defense focus, that 6 hp and 3 agility doesn't seem nearly as enticing.

As far as Vessery goes, running him with minimal upgrades might not be a bad idea. You get more pts to fill out a useful support crew. I mean, getting free TL + F shots is pretty powerful, even without the HLC. His point cost just doesnt let him fit into too many lists once you start adding the HLC and Engine.

Im excited to try some 2 x Defender + Support lists. Or even the 3 x Defender + Hull/SD. That 4 white k turn is more useful than I anticipated. Puts you in positions other ships cant go when you spam the move. Almost makes life difficult for the Phantom, even.

I plan on running a defender mixed in with my tie swarm. Keep it paired with howlrunner/ swarm tactics and you've got a pretty nasty ship for only 30 points.

A bit late to the discussion, but I too am a bit disappointed. I liked Vessery's ability on paper, thinking of running him as a HLC platform...and then I realized I could run Krassis Trelix with HLC for 1 more point. For 1 more point I would get 4 more total HP, and I don't need to build an entire squad distinctly around him.

I'm not saying that it's a totally bad pilot, I just don't see as much use from it. I think the generic pilots are of much more use.

Honestly Vessery is a little better than Krassis. I think most people here know I dislike the Defender. But for 35 points you get a more damaging ability, and an EPT. For 45 points you get a HLC and Outmanuever, making you the greatest flanker alive.

That's fair enough. Previously I had put together this squad:

Vessery - HLC - Outmaneuver (45)

OGP - Weapons Engineer - ST-321 (27)

Black Squadron Pilot x2 (14 x2)

I was originally thinking of keeping the Lambda circling out on the perimeter and just feeding target locks. But I was split on what to do with the TIE's. But looking at it again I was thinking of possibly keeping the TIE's and Lambda together to run at the opponent for an alpha strike to maybe take a wee bit of attention away from the 6HP 45pt target that is Vessery. Thoughts?

That's fair enough. Previously I had put together this squad:

Vessery - HLC - Outmaneuver (45)

OGP - Weapons Engineer - ST-321 (27)

Black Squadron Pilot x2 (14 x2)

I was originally thinking of keeping the Lambda circling out on the perimeter and just feeding target locks. But I was split on what to do with the TIE's. But looking at it again I was thinking of possibly keeping the TIE's and Lambda together to run at the opponent for an alpha strike to maybe take a wee bit of attention away from the 6HP 45pt target that is Vessery. Thoughts?

And otherwise semi-useful 27-point ship is an awfully expensive way to trigger Vessery's ability. IMHO you'd be better off converting those points to more combat-based fighters with a few Targeting Computers scattered in.

One other option that I haven't seen mentioned much for Defenders is Wingman. If you're running BSPs anyway, throwing a few Wingmen in there along with a PtL Defender would give you the same function as Vessery but without the overhead of lock maintenance.

That's fair enough. Previously I had put together this squad:

Vessery - HLC - Outmaneuver (45)

OGP - Weapons Engineer - ST-321 (27)

Black Squadron Pilot x2 (14 x2)

I was originally thinking of keeping the Lambda circling out on the perimeter and just feeding target locks. But I was split on what to do with the TIE's. But looking at it again I was thinking of possibly keeping the TIE's and Lambda together to run at the opponent for an alpha strike to maybe take a wee bit of attention away from the 6HP 45pt target that is Vessery. Thoughts?

And otherwise semi-useful 27-point ship is an awfully expensive way to trigger Vessery's ability. IMHO you'd be better off converting those points to more combat-based fighters with a few Targeting Computers scattered in.

One other option that I haven't seen mentioned much for Defenders is Wingman. If you're running BSPs anyway, throwing a few Wingmen in there along with a PtL Defender would give you the same function as Vessery but without the overhead of lock maintenance.

At that point I would probably just totally rebuild the squad out. Maybe:

Brath - PTL - HLC (47)

Howlrunner - Swarm Tactics (20)

BSP - Wingman (16)

BSP - Predator (17)

Keep them all in a pinwheel formation and focus fire.

Im preferring the Delta over other Defenders this far. The PS 1 means I know if I needed to keep my focus for defense. Without a defense focus, that 6 hp and 3 agility doesn't seem nearly as enticing.

As far as Vessery goes, running him with minimal upgrades might not be a bad idea. You get more pts to fill out a useful support crew. I mean, getting free TL + F shots is pretty powerful, even without the HLC. His point cost just doesnt let him fit into too many lists once you start adding the HLC and Engine.

Im excited to try some 2 x Defender + Support lists. Or even the 3 x Defender + Hull/SD. That 4 white k turn is more useful than I anticipated. Puts you in positions other ships cant go when you spam the move. Almost makes life difficult for the Phantom, even.

I agree, the HLC on the named Defender pilots isn't as cost effective as an upgrade. It makes them crazy expensive and doesn't add a whole lot to their offense. The lowly Delta is arguably the best HLC platform in the game. For Vessery I really think running him naked is a good choice. Maybe throw VI on him if you want to shoot sooner or adrenaline Rush to throw a turn in that can surprise. For Brath, its Predator or get out. Predator is like a TL lite, and can potentially allow him to keep his Focus to flip a few crits on his poor target. I don't think PTL on Defenders is a good choice. You are going to have to go in a pretty predictable path when stressed.

I agree, the HLC on the named Defender pilots isn't as cost effective as an upgrade. It makes them crazy expensive and doesn't add a whole lot to their offense.

I think Brath will like the HLC a lot. Especially against TIEs, the 4v3 at range with everything turning into crits... That's going to be very, very painful. The ubiquitous B-wing won't care about Brath much, but that just means he can drop his focus for increasing hits or save it for defense.

Certainly expensive, but lots of potential for dead ships.