I just think it makes him too expensive and that extra defense die while great, will be unmodified if you ever want to use his ability. He'll be at 44 points with only 6 hitpoints...

Once TO comes around and the Imperials will be able to pass Focus tokens, Brath will be nasty.

I just think it makes him too expensive and that extra defense die while great, will be unmodified if you ever want to use his ability. He'll be at 44 points with only 6 hitpoints...

Probably too expensive indeed, especially when I put Predator on him

There are other options that can help as well... PtL with a Wingman close by is one I want to experiment with. I think the HLC can work well too because it can let the Defender play at range with slow banks, taking advantage of the wide end of the firing arc and its high agility at range. A lot of people are thinking of it entirely in terms of boom-n-zoom passes, butI think it may function well as a slow-closing flanker.

Im preferring the Delta over other Defenders this far. The PS 1 means I know if I needed to keep my focus for defense. Without a defense focus, that 6 hp and 3 agility doesn't seem nearly as enticing.

As far as Vessery goes, running him with minimal upgrades might not be a bad idea. You get more pts to fill out a useful support crew. I mean, getting free TL + F shots is pretty powerful, even without the HLC. His point cost just doesnt let him fit into too many lists once you start adding the HLC and Engine.

Im excited to try some 2 x Defender + Support lists. Or even the 3 x Defender + Hull/SD. That 4 white k turn is more useful than I anticipated. Puts you in positions other ships cant go when you spam the move. Almost makes life difficult for the Phantom, even.

Yeah, that K-turn is brilliant. The other week I used it after taking a stress. My opponent saw my dial and just went "….poop."

So, I was just looking at the squad builder and noticed something I had previously not caught:

Proton Rockets require that you have (but not spend) a focus token. So if Vessery fires one at a target that has a red lock already, he would get to have both a focus token and a target lock for modification on a 5 dice attack, and all within the action economy of a single turn.

So, I was just looking at the squad builder and noticed something I had previously not caught:

Proton Rockets require that you have (but not spend) a focus token. So if Vessery fires one at a target that has a red lock already, he would get to have both a focus token and a target lock for modification on a 5 dice attack, and all within the action economy of a single turn.

True, but it's only one more attack dice than you would have normally since it's Range 1. Worth the 3 points?

So, I was just looking at the squad builder and noticed something I had previously not caught:

Proton Rockets require that you have (but not spend) a focus token. So if Vessery fires one at a target that has a red lock already, he would get to have both a focus token and a target lock for modification on a 5 dice attack, and all within the action economy of a single turn.

True, but it's only one more attack dice than you would have normally since it's Range 1. Worth the 3 points?

Could be… For every attack dice you have past 2 or 3, that's one more die that is completely outside the variance for the best dodge possible. With both a TL and Focus, getting 4-5 hits is actually pretty likely.

Im preferring the Delta over other Defenders this far. The PS 1 means I know if I needed to keep my focus for defense. Without a defense focus, that 6 hp and 3 agility doesn't seem nearly as enticing.

As far as Vessery goes, running him with minimal upgrades might not be a bad idea. You get more pts to fill out a useful support crew. I mean, getting free TL + F shots is pretty powerful, even without the HLC. His point cost just doesnt let him fit into too many lists once you start adding the HLC and Engine.

Im excited to try some 2 x Defender + Support lists. Or even the 3 x Defender + Hull/SD. That 4 white k turn is more useful than I anticipated. Puts you in positions other ships cant go when you spam the move. Almost makes life difficult for the Phantom, even.

So far my gimmicky 1 Defender list was fun, using Vessery, Tetran, and Yorr, but not that good. What about Vessery with VI and Engine, and two Deltas? I haven't gotten my stuff yet, aside from my Imdaar ship, and won't have many good games for a while, so eager to hear how it works for you.

So, I was just looking at the squad builder and noticed something I had previously not caught:

Proton Rockets require that you have (but not spend) a focus token. So if Vessery fires one at a target that has a red lock already, he would get to have both a focus token and a target lock for modification on a 5 dice attack, and all within the action economy of a single turn.

True, but it's only one more attack dice than you would have normally since it's Range 1. Worth the 3 points?

Could be… For every attack dice you have past 2 or 3, that's one more die that is completely outside the variance for the best dodge possible. With both a TL and Focus, getting 4-5 hits is actually pretty likely.

A cloaked Phantom is the only thing that can dodge 4 range one hits, nothing can do five, and if say they dodge 2 hits(from being either lucky with a 2 dice ship or less lucky with 3 dice or dodge 1 +and evade or something) you just oneshotted a Tie/Interceptor severely damaged and A-wing/Z-95 and/or stripped the shields from an X-wing/E-wing. if you get really lucky you could also completely strip the shields from a Falcon/lambda/B-wing/Firespray in one turn too

Im preferring the Delta over other Defenders this far. The PS 1 means I know if I needed to keep my focus for defense. Without a defense focus, that 6 hp and 3 agility doesn't seem nearly as enticing.

As far as Vessery goes, running him with minimal upgrades might not be a bad idea. You get more pts to fill out a useful support crew. I mean, getting free TL + F shots is pretty powerful, even without the HLC. His point cost just doesnt let him fit into too many lists once you start adding the HLC and Engine.

Im excited to try some 2 x Defender + Support lists. Or even the 3 x Defender + Hull/SD. That 4 white k turn is more useful than I anticipated. Puts you in positions other ships cant go when you spam the move. Almost makes life difficult for the Phantom, even.

So far my gimmicky 1 Defender list was fun, using Vessery, Tetran, and Yorr, but not that good. What about Vessery with VI and Engine, and two Deltas? I haven't gotten my stuff yet, aside from my Imdaar ship, and won't have many good games for a while, so eager to hear how it works for you.

I have had some success using Rexlar+Pred +2 Deltas pretty much the same list except maybe a little extra maneuverability in yours versus having Rexlar's ability and I am free to focus a lot more with the Deltas rather than helping Vessery TL

So, I was just looking at the squad builder and noticed something I had previously not caught:

Proton Rockets require that you have (but not spend) a focus token. So if Vessery fires one at a target that has a red lock already, he would get to have both a focus token and a target lock for modification on a 5 dice attack, and all within the action economy of a single turn.

True, but it's only one more attack dice than you would have normally since it's Range 1. Worth the 3 points?

Could be… For every attack dice you have past 2 or 3, that's one more die that is completely outside the variance for the best dodge possible. With both a TL and Focus, getting 4-5 hits is actually pretty likely.

A cloaked Phantom is the only thing that can dodge 4 range one hits, nothing can do five, and if say they dodge 2 hits(from being either lucky with a 2 dice ship or less lucky with 3 dice or dodge 1 +and evade or something) you just oneshotted a Tie/Interceptor severely damaged and A-wing/Z-95 and/or stripped the shields from an X-wing/E-wing. if you get really lucky you could also completely strip the shields from a Falcon/lambda/B-wing/Firespray in one turn too

So, I was just looking at the squad builder and noticed something I had previously not caught:

Proton Rockets require that you have (but not spend) a focus token. So if Vessery fires one at a target that has a red lock already, he would get to have both a focus token and a target lock for modification on a 5 dice attack, and all within the action economy of a single turn.

True, but it's only one more attack dice than you would have normally since it's Range 1. Worth the 3 points?

Could be… For every attack dice you have past 2 or 3, that's one more die that is completely outside the variance for the best dodge possible. With both a TL and Focus, getting 4-5 hits is actually pretty likely.

A cloaked Phantom is the only thing that can dodge 4 range one hits, nothing can do five, and if say they dodge 2 hits(from being either lucky with a 2 dice ship or less lucky with 3 dice or dodge 1 +and evade or something) you just oneshotted a Tie/Interceptor severely damaged and A-wing/Z-95 and/or stripped the shields from an X-wing/E-wing. if you get really lucky you could also completely strip the shields from a Falcon/lambda/B-wing/Firespray in one turn too

The odds of five hits with a focus is around 20%. The expected extra damage for an extra dice with a focus is around .6 to .8 depending on where the dice are added. That's good, but 3 points for an extra .8 damage likely isn't cutting it. At least personally. For that cost I can have something like Predator or Outmanuever that add damage/accuracy every time I attack. I can have a Hull upgrade that keeps me alive longer, which adds more damage. 1 More round of atatcking with a 2 attack ship is 1.8 damage. More with higher attack ships. There are better uses of those points.

If you're gonna bring the math into it then you can at least remember i said target lock as well...

So, I was just looking at the squad builder and noticed something I had previously not caught:

Proton Rockets require that you have (but not spend) a focus token. So if Vessery fires one at a target that has a red lock already, he would get to have both a focus token and a target lock for modification on a 5 dice attack, and all within the action economy of a single turn.

True, but it's only one more attack dice than you would have normally since it's Range 1. Worth the 3 points?

Could be… For every attack dice you have past 2 or 3, that's one more die that is completely outside the variance for the best dodge possible. With both a TL and Focus, getting 4-5 hits is actually pretty likely.

A cloaked Phantom is the only thing that can dodge 4 range one hits, nothing can do five, and if say they dodge 2 hits(from being either lucky with a 2 dice ship or less lucky with 3 dice or dodge 1 +and evade or something) you just oneshotted a Tie/Interceptor severely damaged and A-wing/Z-95 and/or stripped the shields from an X-wing/E-wing. if you get really lucky you could also completely strip the shields from a Falcon/lambda/B-wing/Firespray in one turn too

The odds of five hits with a focus is around 20%. The expected extra damage for an extra dice with a focus is around .6 to .8 depending on where the dice are added. That's good, but 3 points for an extra .8 damage likely isn't cutting it. At least personally. For that cost I can have something like Predator or Outmanuever that add damage/accuracy every time I attack. I can have a Hull upgrade that keeps me alive longer, which adds more damage. 1 More round of atatcking with a 2 attack ship is 1.8 damage. More with higher attack ships. There are better uses of those points.

If you're gonna bring the math into it then you can at least remember i said target lock as well...

If you're gonna bring the math into it then you can at least remember i said target lock as well...

I missed that, but I don't see that as a wildly frequent scenario. That said, after looking at the numbers it is frightening how accurate that is at 5 dice. Makes Push the limit Jake Farrel downright deadly.

If you're gonna bring the math into it then you can at least remember i said target lock as well...

I missed that, but I don't see that as a wildly frequent scenario. That said, after looking at the numbers it is frightening how accurate that is at 5 dice. Makes Push the limit Jake Farrel downright deadly.

Fire Control System would guarantee a target lock on the second pass. B-wings are not going to like that.

Nothing gets FCS and missiles.

If you're gonna bring the math into it then you can at least remember i said target lock as well...

I missed that, but I don't see that as a wildly frequent scenario. That said, after looking at the numbers it is frightening how accurate that is at 5 dice. Makes Push the limit Jake Farrel downright deadly.

Fire Control System would guarantee a target lock on the second pass. B-wings are not going to like that.

Also we're talking about Defenders in this here thread, and they don't get System Upgrades.

I thought we were discussing defneders...

Whoops, sorry. So many Phantom debates I got kind of confused.

They're not based on in-universe skill, they're based on gameplay. A PS 1 Defender pilot is better than a PS 1 Academy Pilot at flying but his ship is that much harder to fly.

Well yes and no. In universe those PS1 pilots could have been on there first live exercise and we the closest to respond. The Defender is good enough that the ops commander felt the machines could pull a victory even though the pilots are green.

In real life something sim happend to the abve. During traing two green typhoons, 1st live flight, jumped two experienced american Eagles and splashed them.

Another combo I've been considering with regards to shuttles and Defenders is sticking Outmaneuver on the defender. The main weakness of the shuttle is the enemy getting behind it, but if the enemy is between a shuttle and another unit with Outmaneuver, I imagine that it will be a much harder decision for them as to who to expose their rear to first.