I am just setting up a squad and was keen to try either Predator or Outmaneuver on Wedge and was wondering what the maths on which is the best bet? Both being 3 pts

Predator - When attacking reroll 1 attack dice or on pilot skill 2/lower reroll 2 dice

Outmaneuver - Reduce agility of defender by 1 (Got to be out of defender's firing arc)

I am thinking Predator is the best bet as you get to use it as it is not dependant on anything like being out of an arc etc.

thoughts?

I don't like Outmaneuver on ships that can't Boost or Barrel Roll. Of course, I think Outmaneuver also depends on how often you see turreted ships.

I am just setting up a squad and was keen to try either Predator or Outmaneuver on Wedge and was wondering what the maths on which is the best bet? Both being 3 pts

Predator - When attacking reroll 1 attack dice or on pilot skill 2/lower reroll 2 dice

Outmaneuver - Reduce agility of defender by 1 (Got to be out of defender's firing arc)

I am thinking Predator is the best bet as you get to use it as it is not dependant on anything like being out of an arc etc.

thoughts?

I would lean predator on Wedge for the reason you mentioned, plus Outmaneuver on Wedge while nice really doesn't do anything against 1 agility ships. Also with Predator, it means not having to choose between a TL and Focus, since you have a miniTL already

I would from a starting point agree with you; in general you shouldn't expect to be able (or be allowed to) flank Wedge on your opponent, so "normally" he would seldom be outmaneuvering your opponent. However, in some builds you might be able to present a more important target that will "force" your opponent to focus on the other ships; I t could be Biggs and Luke where Luke has Draw Their Fire and a whiled w/ R2-D2 or similar (I haven't done point calc on the suggested example)

On the other hand, if you give Wedge an Engine upgrade and has a way of granting him an extra action or similar, then Outmaneuver might work. But Precdator will be more useful on a regular basis IMO

I am just setting up a squad and was keen to try either Predator or Outmaneuver on Wedge and was wondering what the maths on which is the best bet? Both being 3 pts

Predator - When attacking reroll 1 attack dice or on pilot skill 2/lower reroll 2 dice

Outmaneuver - Reduce agility of defender by 1 (Got to be out of defender's firing arc)

I am thinking Predator is the best bet as you get to use it as it is not dependant on anything like being out of an arc etc.

thoughts?

I would lean predator on Wedge for the reason you mentioned, plus Outmaneuver on Wedge while nice really doesn't do anything against 1 agility ships. Also with Predator, it means not having to choose between a TL and Focus, since you have a miniTL already

I agree. Also, with Rebel Squads being more and more popular and the fact that rebels tend to have lower agility already, I really think that Outmaneuver is really redundant on Wedge. Most Empire ships have 3 agility, yes, but it will be quite difficult for Wedge to consistently stay out of their firing arcs. I'd say the most popular Rebel ships are the B-wing, the Falcon, and the X-wing. 2 of those three only start with 1 agility.

Predator, on the other hand, basically gives you a partial Target Lock without paying an action. Predator synergizes with Wedge's already hard-hitting power quite well, whilst Outmaneuver is often redundant and difficult to maintain the angles at which it even works.

Predator, on the other hand, basically gives you a partial Target Lock without paying an action. Predator synergizes with Wedge's already hard-hitting power quite well, whilst Outmaneuver is often redundant and difficult to maintain the angles at which it even works.

Vader, I think is a good example of a ship where outmaneuver would be good on (or PTL A-wings when Aces comes out and they can take 2 EPTs). He can barrel roll, take 2 actions so he can cover the TL+Focus, and he usually has an engine upgrade for boost.

I haven't done the math. (I mean why do it, Juggler will get on and do it for us). But a couple of rules of thumb. A re-roll is almost as good as another dice. Gaining an attack dice is a little better than denying your apponant an agility dice. So the offensive effect of the two upgrades are comparable. I would guess that the effect from Outmanuver is slightly better (maybe even as much as 50% better, but not more than that), but they are pretty close. But you get Preditor's effect every time!!!

If you are playing a ship like PtL Interceptor that is going to be outside of firing arcs almost every time, not just most of the time. Outmanuver might be better, except if you are doing a PtL ship, you have already spent you EPT upgrade.

I have tried a few different ideas trying to get Outmanuver to be better than Preditor. The only ship I can think of is Vader with EU. But I think Vader w/out EU w/ Preditor is a pretty good idea, and its a few points cheaper.

By the way does anyone else want a Vader TIE Defender!

I prob should have added that we always play reb v emp so generally come up against no turrets and ships with more than 2 agility.

But def think predator. Is the better option in my build

Corran + r2d2 + advS + ptl

Wedge + r3a2 + predator

Airen + wingman

I don't like Outmaneuver on ships that can't Boost or Barrel Roll. Of course, I think Outmaneuver also depends on how often you see turreted ships.

I think outmaneuver still works on turreted ships (just like Backstabber's ability).

By the way does anyone else want a Vader TIE Defender!

Vader and Maarek

I don't like Outmaneuver on ships that can't Boost or Barrel Roll. Of course, I think Outmaneuver also depends on how often you see turreted ships.

I think outmaneuver still works on turreted ships (just like Backstabber's ability).

Yes, it still works as normal if you are out of their printed front arc, even though you can still take the return fire.

Man the predator franchise has just been steadily going downhill lately, this movie sounds terrible...

I haven't done the math. (I mean why do it, Juggler will get on and do it for us).

Ha ha, true. Probably not tonight though.

I am just setting up a squad and was keen to try either Predator or Outmaneuver on Wedge and was wondering what the maths on which is the best bet? Both being 3 pts

Predator - When attacking reroll 1 attack dice or on pilot skill 2/lower reroll 2 dice

Outmaneuver - Reduce agility of defender by 1 (Got to be out of defender's firing arc)

I am thinking Predator is the best bet as you get to use it as it is not dependant on anything like being out of an arc etc.

thoughts?

Predator will always be useful on Wedge, though not as good as a Target Lock.

Outmaneuver will be a waste of points against a ship with 1 agility.

Outmaneuver would be better against a ship with 3 agility, if you can actually get their positioning down. Most of these have Barrel Rolls and/or Boosts, making it difficult to use with Wedge. He is, however, level 9, so they can't be sure of his positioning.

IF You are good at flying an X-Wing unpredictably, then Outmaneuver is excellent against Interceptors and Swarms, but terrible against YT-1300s and B-Wings.

Irrespective of your flying skills, Predator is good against everything, but not great.

So, my answer is: Push the Limit and an R2 Astromech, so you can get an actual Target Lock.

I think we can all agree that outmanouver is probably wasted on Wedge. On other ships however it might be the best thing since sliced bread. Phantoms in particular should be truly deadly with outmanouver though that does mean giving up on veteran instincts. Tough call that one.

I am just setting up a squad and was keen to try either Predator or Outmaneuver on Wedge and was wondering what the maths on which is the best bet? Both being 3 pts

Predator - When attacking reroll 1 attack dice or on pilot skill 2/lower reroll 2 dice

Outmaneuver - Reduce agility of defender by 1 (Got to be out of defender's firing arc)

I am thinking Predator is the best bet as you get to use it as it is not dependant on anything like being out of an arc etc.

thoughts?

Predator will always be useful on Wedge, though not as good as a Target Lock.

Outmaneuver will be a waste of points against a ship with 1 agility.

Outmaneuver would be better against a ship with 3 agility, if you can actually get their positioning down. Most of these have Barrel Rolls and/or Boosts, making it difficult to use with Wedge. He is, however, level 9, so they can't be sure of his positioning.

IF You are good at flying an X-Wing unpredictably, then Outmaneuver is excellent against Interceptors and Swarms, but terrible against YT-1300s and B-Wings.

Irrespective of your flying skills, Predator is good against everything, but not great.

So, my answer is: Push the Limit and an R2 Astromech, so you can get an actual Target Lock.

The thing with that is even with the extra Green maneuvers it makes Wedge's movement a lot more predictable. Predator meanwhile will always be active, even will stressed, so that even after a K-turn you're getting at least a 1 rerolled dice, 2 against a lot of common ships(Academy Pilot, X-wing Rookies, Blue Squadron, Omicron shuttle, the upcoming Bandit Squadron, etc.). You don't have to clear stress right away either to still have a boosted attack with Predator, which adds to your options. And in the off chance you need to spend your action to clear some critical hit effect, again, you've still got a boost to your shooting when you go to do it.

To tack onto the list for the usefulness of Predator for Wedge...

If you get blocked (which happens often when you're PS9), you still get mini-target lock with no action, making ramming a more viable tactic for Wedge.

If you happen to give him a torpedo, then you can still re-roll 1 or 2 dice. Usually they aren't worth it, but a proton torp, at PS9, changing the first [eye] to a [crit] and rerolling 1 or 2 [blank]s (or second [eye]) sounds much better.

I would from a starting point agree with you; in general you shouldn't expect to be able (or be allowed to) flank Wedge on your opponent, so "normally" he would seldom be outmaneuvering your opponent. However, in some builds you might be able to present a more important target that will "force" your opponent to focus on the other ships; I t could be Biggs and Luke where Luke has Draw Their Fire and a whiled w/ R2-D2 or similar (I haven't done point calc on the suggested example)

Okay now, who are you playing against because well, if I have a Wedge with Outmaneuver trying to flank me on one side, and Biggs or Luke with R2D2 on the other, you can bet I'll focus fire on Wedge!

You never leave Wedge alone. You definitely never leave Wedge with outmaneuver alone. That's a third of the opponent squadron that can decimate you just by sneezing.

Predator all the way on Wedge. He laugh at Tie Swarm: ''Okay, so I'll reroll 2 dice since you are PS1 and I took a focus because well, why bother with a TL against you... and then you defend with 2 dice instead of 3 because well... I'm Wedge! I know, it sucks...''

Please wait until tomorrow at least, to start this kind of topic, greettings.

Please wait until tomorrow at least, to start this kind of topic, greettings.

I agree most speculation threads are kinda moot, but this card has been out for a while and the ships the cards come with have gotten to a vast amount of people already because vendors getting stuff a bit earlier. Yes most will get it tomorrow but this thread is perfectly reasonable.

On that note, I would cast my vote to predator. Yes negative 2 dice while awesome, is moot on some of the more popular ships, and wedge won't have the easiest time getting into a position for the bonus. Predator on him though will cause his damage out put to be much more reliable.

Please wait until tomorrow at least, to start this kind of topic, greettings.

Why? I have my Wave 4 ships already.

Mathematically, Outmaneuver is typically better than Predator (although not by a lot). Which one is better for your list, and for you as a pilot, is actually a question of how often you'll be able to trigger Outmaneuver, and that's something only practice will tell you.

So, basically… get them both on the table, and find out which one you like better. Neither one is ever going to be a bad choice.

Please wait until tomorrow at least, to start this kind of topic

No point in waiting. Many people have already played with it either from AAIA or proxy. It's just people's opinions.

Also,

greettings.

What is this? I don't mean to sound offensive, but I see it everywhere and simply don't understand. Is it "greetings," with a typo? If so, why every message..? Again, not to be rude, just curious.

Back to the topic: I don't think Outmaneuver is wasted on Wedge, considering the Shuttle is the only 1-Agi ship imps have. What's better than reducing them to zero, giving them no chance to defend themselves?

Mathematically, Outmaneuver is typically better than Predator (although not by a lot). Which one is better for your list, and for you as a pilot, is actually a question of how often you'll be able to trigger Outmaneuver, and that's something only practice will tell you.

So, basically… get them both on the table, and find out which one you like better. Neither one is ever going to be a bad choice.

I believe the numbers also were affected based on whether or not the target was PS2 or lower, as well, both realistically are going to be situational as for which is better in a given instance

Also,

greettings.

What is this? I don't mean to sound offensive, but I see it everywhere and simply don't understand. Is it "greetings," with a typo? If so, why every message..? Again, not to be rude, just curious.

ESL

Back to topic, I've flown Wedge with Outmaneuver and didn't really like it. The targets it works best on have a better dial than Wedge, so it's hard to make work consistently. Moreover, it makes him act like Biggs for 7 points more.

Wedge gets focus-fired pretty quickly anyway (how did that guy survive 40 years of dogfighting with an ability like that?!), so I vote Predator just to make his few shots a game really count.