Quick question and it very well may be buried in the previous pages, but if you have a Stealth Device on an AGL 2 ship, would it then meet the requirements for the PRs?

I wish events would start logging all of the lists people brought.

Then we could look at the top table lists/ships vs percentage of each list/ship played at events. This would put some of the debates on here to rest, as it would be all inclusive. We could see things like, *chance of a Tie Swarm making it to the top*, which will be based on total number of swarms played at all events and the total that made it to the top. This would remove another variable from the data set, which is total # of each list played by all players, not just the good ones Can you say, goal for next Regional Season??

I 100% like what you're providing for us, Major Juggler, but now I want more! Sometimes "answers" just lead to more questions! Maybe I just like that I got to see my name and squad on a thread that everyone reads

While %chance of a list making a top cut would be interesting, I don't think it would be conclusive about the strength of the list either, since a lot of players in the bottom aren't necessarily there because of their lists.

Well of course, but isn't the reason we are interested in this data to look for "the best" lists/ships, regardless of player skill. Id like to try and separate the 2. Information about what the skilled players are picking doesn't mean as much, imo, since they are more likely to win with any list. If a good player is equally skilled with a Swarm and Dual YT, and the only reason he chose one over the over the other was a whim, wouldnt the success be more measured the stronger squad? To me it is more, "what list/ship prevails in an even skill matchup", that's what I want to know, I suppose.

But alas, that IS different from what is being compiled with the Regional results. They both have their merits. Im just not pulling a lot of information from it that is helping me as a player, I suppose.

I mean this all in good nature, I'm just greedy for MORE information

Quick question and it very well may be buried in the previous pages, but if you have a Stealth Device on an AGL 2 ship, would it then meet the requirements for the PRs?

As long as the Stealth Device is still active, then yes.

Quick question and it very well may be buried in the previous pages, but if you have a Stealth Device on an AGL 2 ship, would it then meet the requirements for the PRs?

As long as the Stealth Device is still active, then yes.

It was brought up however that in certain cases the probability of a 2 agility ship making it to r1 with the stealth intact is fairly low in my opinion

This may be an odd complaint, but I feel that the Proton Rockets really don't fit their flavor at all. I remember them being used primarily against capital ships. Of course, I'm wondering if they still intend to make Heavy Space Bombs/Rockets. If those things walloped Huge ships then I'd be happy.

I think it fits the fluff just fine. It's not a fast and agile missile that can track a target as long as you launch it in the right direction, it's a short-range weapon that depends on the agility of the firing ship to line up a perfect shot. An a-wing is able to out-maneuver its prey and land a direct hit, a YT-1300 is going to be lucky to hit with the edge of the blast radius and scratch some paint. It even works perfectly with requiring a focus token instead of a target lock to fire, it's all about pilot skill over targeting computers.

Then you must have used them very differently than I did. I used them primarily on capital ships, and relied on dogfighting (you know, the fun bits ) to kill fighters and freighters and assault transports.

People are confusing two separate issues.

Issue #1 "Advanced proton not appearing in the regionals lists means it sucks" — Issue 1 is debatable. There's a lot of good stuff that isn't used.

Issue #2 "The regionals lists are too small a sample size to be useful" — This is crazy talk.

The problem is people are discussing this without stating whether they are talking about #1 or #2.

Are you required to discard focus? I thought when it states (focus) it requires you spend the focus token to use it?

Are you required to discard focus? I thought when it states (focus) it requires you spend the focus token to use it?

It requires you to have a focus token, not to spend it unless explicitly stated. Compare the wording on any other missile or torpedo, and then look at this one (or Homing Missiles) again, and see that all the other ones except Proton Rockets and homing missiles say to discard the Target Lock or Focus token to fire.

@Major Juggler

I wonder, do you secretly enjoy that every thread turns into a debate about the Regionals and Nationals data?

I bet you do.

I wish events would start logging all of the lists people brought.

Then we could look at the top table lists/ships vs percentage of each list/ship played at events. This would put some of the debates on here to rest, as it would be all inclusive. We could see things like, *chance of a Tie Swarm making it to the top*, which will be based on total number of swarms played at all events and the total that made it to the top. This would remove another variable from the data set, which is total # of each list played by all players, not just the good ones Can you say, goal for next Regional Season??

I 100% like what you're providing for us, Major Juggler, but now I want more! Sometimes "answers" just lead to more questions! Maybe I just like that I got to see my name and squad on a thread that everyone reads

While %chance of a list making a top cut would be interesting, I don't think it would be conclusive about the strength of the list either, since a lot of players in the bottom aren't necessarily there because of their lists.

Well of course, but isn't the reason we are interested in this data to look for "the best" lists/ships, regardless of player skill. Id like to try and separate the 2. Information about what the skilled players are picking doesn't mean as much, imo, since they are more likely to win with any list. If a good player is equally skilled with a Swarm and Dual YT, and the only reason he chose one over the over the other was a whim, wouldnt the success be more measured the stronger squad? To me it is more, "what list/ship prevails in an even skill matchup", that's what I want to know, I suppose.

But alas, that IS different from what is being compiled with the Regional results. They both have their merits. Im just not pulling a lot of information from it that is helping me as a player, I suppose.

I mean this all in good nature, I'm just greedy for MORE information

Yeah, MJ and I have butted heads over this a few times.

The sample size may or may not be good, but it's not really representative of the conclusions that people try to draw from it.

If you really want to see ship/list performance you'd need either all the lists or a random sampling of all the lists otherwise you can't really see how much of a reason a list makes it to the top tables is popularity based.

Case Study examples:

Gen Con - Han was the most taken pilot across all lists (that are posted from flight 1), so if all things were average we should see him at the top tables. Most likely, there was an even higher percentage of Hans among the players who generally keep up with the meta and generally make it to the top tables, so he was popular among them also. Roark, on the otherhand, was taken only in 1 or 2 lists (of what 130+ lists?) I believe, not seen at the top tables at all. Not really a surprise.

Flash Forward to Spanish Nationals - Still an absurd number of Hans, but 6 lists (if I remember correctly) with Roark are in top 32 alone, and the winning list has Roark in it. Roark definitely became more popular there then at Gen Con.

So if you just look at GenCon top tables, you would think Roark wouldn't have been a good contender, but really Roark just wasn't taken very much to have a good gauge on how well he'd do. Popularity effect.

Edit:

Wow didn't realize this was a necro thread.

Your argument that if a certain pilot is taken often this leads to said pilot (Han) to be more prominent at the top tables is flawed.

In my opinion people ending up at top tables are (very) good players.

The kind of players not picking bad ships/pilots.

My reasoning is that if (very) good players choose to fly a Han variant list this means Han is (very) good.*

*THAT* is why these people with these lists end up at the top.

*= good at the current meta yadada yadda/disclaimer/youknow if you use brain and all that jazz

Your argument that if a certain pilot is taken often this leads to said pilot (Han) to be more prominent at the top tables is flawed.

In my opinion people ending up at top tables are (very) good players.

The kind of players not picking bad ships/pilots.

My reasoning is that if (very) good players choose to fly a Han variant list this means Han is (very) good.*

*THAT* is why these people with these lists end up at the top.

*= good at the current meta yadada yadda/disclaimer/youknow if you use brain and all that jazz

Hitting the top places constantly doesn't necessarily mean the Falcon is overpowered. The Falcon is very popular: if half the lists in a tournament are Falcons you've got a very good chance of an individual Falcon scoring highly. Without the full data (rather than just winners data) we can't account for how many Falcons hit the top tables relative to those who took part.

I reckon we should record every list that turns up at Worlds, not just the winners. See how much is Falcon and how much is pilot.

Your argument that if a certain pilot is taken often this leads to said pilot (Han) to be more prominent at the top tables is flawed.

In my opinion people ending up at top tables are (very) good players.

The kind of players not picking bad ships/pilots.

My reasoning is that if (very) good players choose to fly a Han variant list this means Han is (very) good.*

*THAT* is why these people with these lists end up at the top.

*= good at the current meta yadada yadda/disclaimer/youknow if you use brain and all that jazz

That's not my argument. It's not so black or white. My argument is what makes it to the top tables is always partially based on popularity (how many times a squad is taken in the tournament), but yes is based on other things. However how much of an effect popularity has (which at times could be very small, and at times could be large), can't be measured with data that is skewed only toward the top tables. So making generalizations of how effective a ship is overall from that data can be faulty.

Also, a ship may be popular because it's a direct counter to another popular ship. For instance, Han is taken to counter Whisper, so there are good reasons for that popularity, but again to draw info about Han's overall effectiveness can be faulty.

Right. But what people want, and is typically expected, is a game where the only metric of who wins is player skill. Squad building should be a part, personally, but the number of viable top squads should be very high. I'm not big on the general idea that the number is too low. But I dislike fighting the falcon.

I fully agree. If you somehow think I claim otherwise I was not clear. (enough)

More reason to get TIE advanced.