Oh and saying that an A-Wing has to pay almost as much for it as for an APT is also useless as there are no A-Wings capable of equipping torpedoes.

Let's not forget if the missile carrier does bump there are more ways for the rebels to pick up a focus off another ship than get a target lock.

Let's not forget if the missile carrier does bump there are more ways for the rebels to pick up a focus off another ship than get a target lock.

Lol I can't imagine how bad/unlucky your opponents are if a Z-95 at ps2 makes it all the way to range 1 and gets to its pilot skill step (including if the opponent has initiative) and still has its stealth device and/or didn't have to spend its focus.

You know there are other ships on the table, right? If you've got a swarm of Z-95s then some of them are going to get through, and if that Z-95 is flying alongside a Falcon/b-wings/etc then congratulations, by focusing everything on the Z-95 to stop it at all costs you just gave your opponent Biggs at a 7-point discount and without the range limit.

When paired with bigger threat, no need to destroy it, just strip it of his SD. It will also put him in a bad position since he shoot after everyone else (except PS1): Should you use your focus in defense so you can keep your SD, but if you do so, you suddenly can't use your rocket this turn. If stripped of SD, his PR will suddenly become a one time R1 4 dice attack. It's good, but it's not as if it was unheard of: X-Wing, B-Wing, Interceptor, etc No need to focus fire a ship that do basically the same damage once per game than your entire team.

If it's in a swarm of Z-95 with Proton Rockets, 3 out of 6 with SD. I'll focus fire those without SD first to get rid of one or two before R1. Once in R1, with a big IF I can't avoid it (because let's be honest, it's not as if a PS2 Z-95 was that hard to outmaneuver), I would focus fire against a SD Z-95. So, he now has 3-4 ship that can launch their Rockets, 1 or 2 of those with 5 dice. Congratulation, now what? Is it really enough to screw my team and win the game. I don't think so. Not more than equiping some with Assault Missiles, Homing Missiles or Concussion missiles. Proton Rockets are good, but I don't think buying a SD is worth it on a Z-95, even if it's not just to boost the PR attack.

a 1 attack dice increase at range 1 is questionable. On the Firespray its redundant. On everything else it's not as big an increase to the point it's barely worth the 3 points. Ooh, 4 dice versus 3 on a z-95 at range 1.

I guess I need to say it again: X-Wing is a game of opposed dice, and going from 3 attack dice to 4 attack dice is way more than a 33% increase in firepower. For a mere three points this is a very appealing option.

And this is why I should run all the numbers and make a MathWing thread dedicated to Missiles and Torpedoes. I'll do it eventually, but no ETA.

According to MajorJuggler's regionals statistics thread, there have been 0 Advanced Proton Torpedoes so far finishing in the top 1/3 of regionals lists. That would imply that Advanced Proton Torpedoes are not worthwhile, and not a good benchmark for game balance.

Yup.

At first I thought Major Rhymer could use them well, for 4 dice with Focus at Range 1-2. But then Concussion Missiles are only 1 point more, will work at Range 1-3 on Rhymer, and get a free hit. So, really, PRs are comparable here as well.

Speaking of Regionals results, Rhymer also has never been used. Aside from Missiles and Torpedoes being too expensive, Rhymer is WAAAAAAY too costly for his ability.

I think the APT and PR are costed correctly. I often using Missiles and Torps (even in Regionals) in my lists and never regret taking them.

I am genuinely curious about this: did you finish in the Final Cut or Top 1/3? I only track numerical statistics if you did, and I have zero Advanced Proton Torpedoes. Missiles in general are also very under represented. I would be curious to know, especially for the sake of this discussion, how well you have done at Regionals this year with missiles / torpedoes.

Im gonna be using it on a Scimitar. Probably 2 x Proton Rockets, since it is the only ship with 2 missile slots, it almost makes sense to me. 2, 4 dice attacks for 22 pt ship will make it a nice threat.

Maybe Scimitar + Stealth Device + Proton Rockets as a pseudo APT, same cost, but DOES make your bomber more survivable, at least a tidbit.

Or use the Proton Rocket in your Jonus lists as a replacement for Cluster Missiles. 4 dice + Focus + Rerolls will do good damage! AND no TL required. And for only 3 pts! The more I think about it, the more impressed I am. Will make your oppoment think twice about rushing Range 1 to avoid the assault missiles.

Best use, of course is Green Squadron A Wing with PTL and the Rockets. An easy 5 dice TL + F threat.

1 proton rocket will be enough on a bomber. A lot can go wrong before you get the chance to fire 1, let alone 2.

2 flechette, 1proton rocket and 1 seismic charges will be my new loadout for a scimitar and put him at a perfect 25pts.

1 proton rocket will be enough on a bomber. A lot can go wrong before you get the chance to fire 1, let alone 2.

2 flechette, 1proton rocket and 1 seismic charges will be my new loadout for a scimitar and put him at a perfect 25pts.

So you're saying to not put too many missiles on a bomber because of the risk of not being able to use them. Too many being 2 in this case.

And then you proceed to describe your go-to loadout for a bomber which consists of 2 torpedoes, 1 missile and a bomb?

Uhr?

Nah, I'm saying to not put 2missile that can only go off at range 1 on the same ship. For1 more point, you can have 2 flechette torpedo, this way you have 2 3 dice attack +stress for range 2-3 and 1 4 dice attack for range 1. I think it has a lot more potential than 2 range 1 attack and cost nearly the same.

EDIT: You probably won't get to fire them all but, it is as if you raised the bomber attack value to 3 for 3 turn for 7 points, not bad if you ask me.

1 proton rocket will be enough on a bomber. A lot can go wrong before you get the chance to fire 1, let alone 2.

2 flechette, 1proton rocket and 1 seismic charges will be my new loadout for a scimitar and put him at a perfect 25pts.

So you're saying to not put too many missiles on a bomber because of the risk of not being able to use them. Too many being 2 in this case.

And then you proceed to describe your go-to loadout for a bomber which consists of 2 torpedoes, 1 missile and a bomb?

Uhr?

He says to not put too many proton rockets on a bomber. Proton rockets are range 1 only.

Then he proceeds to describe his go-to loadout for a bomber which consists of 2 range 2-3 weapons, one range 1 weapon and a bomb.

Proton Rocket on the Outrider, with HLC Turret. Suddenly your range-1 blind spot isn't so blind - so in case someone gets up close to you you STILL have an option.

Nah, I'm saying to not put 2missile that can only go off at range 1 on the same ship. For1 more point, you can have 2 flechette torpedo, this way you have 2 3 dice attack +stress for range 2-3 and 1 4 dice attack for range 1. I think it has a lot more potential than 2 range 1 attack and cost nearly the same.

EDIT: You probably won't get to fire them all but, it is as if you raised the bomber attack value to 3 for 3 turn for 7 points, not bad if you ask me.

Ah, misunderstood you there.

But three secondaries and a bomb on a single ship is more than half the ship's worth. That's a lot, even on a sturdy bomber.

I would agree, but now with the cheap flechette, I think it is doable. If I were to drp one, it would be the charges.

You are looking at a 23pts ship. Compare it to a Red Squadron X-Wing and I think it's fair. 3 attack as if you had attack 3, but 2 of those gives a stress regardless ofif they hit or not, but let's be honest, there is good odds that you'll be dead once you'll have fired those 3 ordnances. Same agility, 6 hull instead of 3 +2 shields. PS2 instad of 4, barrel roll action.

Lol I can't imagine how bad/unlucky your opponents are if a Z-95 at ps2 makes it all the way to range 1 and gets to its pilot skill step (including if the opponent has initiative) and still has its stealth device and/or didn't have to spend its focus.

You know there are other ships on the table, right? If you've got a swarm of Z-95s then some of them are going to get through, and if that Z-95 is flying alongside a Falcon/b-wings/etc then congratulations, by focusing everything on the Z-95 to stop it at all costs you just gave your opponent Biggs at a 7-point discount and without the range limit.

I am not saying focus firing to stop at all costs I'm saying sneeze in its general direction to strip the stealth and weaken its missile in one go, from their you have basically a Tie fighter with less agility to be eliminated at my convenience.

I am not worried as much about a 4 die attack at PS2 I'm worried about stopping the 5 die one.

Focus firing is great and all but there are times when split firing is more beneficial, and a hardwired refusal to deviate from a tactic will be a certain loss no matter what you target.

1 proton rocket will be enough on a bomber. A lot can go wrong before you get the chance to fire 1, let alone 2.

2 flechette, 1proton rocket and 1 seismic charges will be my new loadout for a scimitar and put him at a perfect 25pts.

I think I like 1 x Flechette and 1 x PR at 21pts. Sounds like a solid setup to me.

Lol I can't imagine how bad/unlucky your opponents are if a Z-95 at ps2 makes it all the way to range 1 and gets to its pilot skill step (including if the opponent has initiative) and still has its stealth device and/or didn't have to spend its focus.

You know there are other ships on the table, right? If you've got a swarm of Z-95s then some of them are going to get through, and if that Z-95 is flying alongside a Falcon/b-wings/etc then congratulations, by focusing everything on the Z-95 to stop it at all costs you just gave your opponent Biggs at a 7-point discount and without the range limit.

I am not saying focus firing to stop at all costs I'm saying sneeze in its general direction to strip the stealth and weaken its missile in one go, from their you have basically a Tie fighter with less agility to be eliminated at my convenience.

I am not worried as much about a 4 die attack at PS2 I'm worried about stopping the 5 die one.

Focus firing is great and all but there are times when split firing is more beneficial, and a hardwired refusal to deviate from a tactic will be a certain loss no matter what you target.

The hard part is, spending just 1 shot to strip a Stealth Device could mean another ship lives by 1 HP. Heck, I think I'd prefer it if my opponent wasted 1 shot, spreading the damage like that.

Lol I can't imagine how bad/unlucky your opponents are if a Z-95 at ps2 makes it all the way to range 1 and gets to its pilot skill step (including if the opponent has initiative) and still has its stealth device and/or didn't have to spend its focus.

You know there are other ships on the table, right? If you've got a swarm of Z-95s then some of them are going to get through, and if that Z-95 is flying alongside a Falcon/b-wings/etc then congratulations, by focusing everything on the Z-95 to stop it at all costs you just gave your opponent Biggs at a 7-point discount and without the range limit.

I am not saying focus firing to stop at all costs I'm saying sneeze in its general direction to strip the stealth and weaken its missile in one go, from their you have basically a Tie fighter with less agility to be eliminated at my convenience.

I am not worried as much about a 4 die attack at PS2 I'm worried about stopping the 5 die one.

Focus firing is great and all but there are times when split firing is more beneficial, and a hardwired refusal to deviate from a tactic will be a certain loss no matter what you target.

The hard part is, spending just 1 shot to strip a Stealth Device could mean another ship lives by 1 HP. Heck, I think I'd prefer it if my opponent wasted 1 shot, spreading the damage like that.

Yeah, I thought Stealth Device was dead because of Blount...

Lol I can't imagine how bad/unlucky your opponents are if a Z-95 at ps2 makes it all the way to range 1 and gets to its pilot skill step (including if the opponent has initiative) and still has its stealth device and/or didn't have to spend its focus.

You know there are other ships on the table, right? If you've got a swarm of Z-95s then some of them are going to get through, and if that Z-95 is flying alongside a Falcon/b-wings/etc then congratulations, by focusing everything on the Z-95 to stop it at all costs you just gave your opponent Biggs at a 7-point discount and without the range limit.

I am not saying focus firing to stop at all costs I'm saying sneeze in its general direction to strip the stealth and weaken its missile in one go, from their you have basically a Tie fighter with less agility to be eliminated at my convenience.

I am not worried as much about a 4 die attack at PS2 I'm worried about stopping the 5 die one.

Focus firing is great and all but there are times when split firing is more beneficial, and a hardwired refusal to deviate from a tactic will be a certain loss no matter what you target.

The hard part is, spending just 1 shot to strip a Stealth Device could mean another ship lives by 1 HP. Heck, I think I'd prefer it if my opponent wasted 1 shot, spreading the damage like that.

3 agility dice without focus or evade is not hard to hit... at least that's what my Tie Fighter and Interceptors taught me.

If you want my opinion, you would do better to use those 3 points to raise your PS and take another missile, use it at range 2-3 for a 4 attack dice and then close in for a 3 attack dice at range 1. Instead of shooting last at 2 dice at range 2-3 and then maybe, maybe, attack at 5 dice in range 1. Or just take a Proton rocket and use those 3 points saved from SD to upgrade a ship that will give you more consistant results.

Proton Rockets are good, but I don't think good enough to justify building a ship or a strategy around it. I see them more like fillers or cheap upgrade.

I would agree, but now with the cheap flechette, I think it is doable. If I were to drp one, it would be the charges.

You are looking at a 23pts ship. Compare it to a Red Squadron X-Wing and I think it's fair. 3 attack as if you had attack 3, but 2 of those gives a stress regardless ofif they hit or not, but let's be honest, there is good odds that you'll be dead once you'll have fired those 3 ordnances. Same agility, 6 hull instead of 3 +2 shields. PS2 instad of 4, barrel roll action.

Don't forget: no bonus agility die at range 3 with secondary weapons.

I would agree, but now with the cheap flechette, I think it is doable. If I were to drp one, it would be the charges.

You are looking at a 23pts ship. Compare it to a Red Squadron X-Wing and I think it's fair. 3 attack as if you had attack 3, but 2 of those gives a stress regardless ofif they hit or not, but let's be honest, there is good odds that you'll be dead once you'll have fired those 3 ordnances. Same agility, 6 hull instead of 3 +2 shields. PS2 instad of 4, barrel roll action.

Don't forget: no bonus agility die at range 3 with secondary weapons.

That too. I was typing on my Vita so I tried to keep it short. But it certainly is another edge over the X-Wing.

Pros:

-2 of your range 2-3 attack also gives stress

-potentially 2 of your range 3 attack don't give agility bonus

-barrel roll

-1 more hit point

Cons:

-PS2 instead of 4

-all hit points are Hull so you are more vulnerable to Critical hits

-once you're out of ordnance, you get back to shooting at 2 value

-Maneuver Dial. Up to the players of course, but I think the X-Wing dial is slightly better than the Tie Bomber

Lol I can't imagine how bad/unlucky your opponents are if a Z-95 at ps2 makes it all the way to range 1 and gets to its pilot skill step (including if the opponent has initiative) and still has its stealth device and/or didn't have to spend its focus.

You know there are other ships on the table, right? If you've got a swarm of Z-95s then some of them are going to get through, and if that Z-95 is flying alongside a Falcon/b-wings/etc then congratulations, by focusing everything on the Z-95 to stop it at all costs you just gave your opponent Biggs at a 7-point discount and without the range limit.

I am not saying focus firing to stop at all costs I'm saying sneeze in its general direction to strip the stealth and weaken its missile in one go, from their you have basically a Tie fighter with less agility to be eliminated at my convenience.

I am not worried as much about a 4 die attack at PS2 I'm worried about stopping the 5 die one.

Focus firing is great and all but there are times when split firing is more beneficial, and a hardwired refusal to deviate from a tactic will be a certain loss no matter what you target.

The hard part is, spending just 1 shot to strip a Stealth Device could mean another ship lives by 1 HP. Heck, I think I'd prefer it if my opponent wasted 1 shot, spreading the damage like that.

That's pretty situational. It's a weak tactic. Stealth device is already unreliable. Putting it on a PS2 ship to add the damage is not going to help. Especially considering if they make you burn that focus you still cannot fire.

It's for the bait, If I have Howlrunner lined up Range 2 and a Scimitar with PR and SD at range 1, you tell me who you'd rather shoot. Especially when Howlrunner is still supporting 5 APs. It creates a tough decision with no good answer. Even if you just waste 1 shot on the Bomber to strip the SD, you've reduced your chances to kill another ship that turn, meaning you might as well stick to killing the Bomber or risk no kills. You'll need all the shots you can to kill a Range 2 Howlrunner, after all. Of course, you could shoot for the Range 1 APs after stripping the SD, but now you'll only kill 1 instead of 2, that sort of thing. Finish off the Bomber and you're range 1/2 of 5 APs all supported by the Howlrunner, don't shoot it at all, and risk a 5 dice attack. Math probably says to shoot the APs, but wouldn't it just suck if that Bomber removed the shields of that B Wing or just 1 shot another Tie all by itself? Just my 2 cents.

Lol I can't imagine how bad/unlucky your opponents are if a Z-95 at ps2 makes it all the way to range 1 and gets to its pilot skill step (including if the opponent has initiative) and still has its stealth device and/or didn't have to spend its focus.

You know there are other ships on the table, right? If you've got a swarm of Z-95s then some of them are going to get through, and if that Z-95 is flying alongside a Falcon/b-wings/etc then congratulations, by focusing everything on the Z-95 to stop it at all costs you just gave your opponent Biggs at a 7-point discount and without the range limit.

I am not saying focus firing to stop at all costs I'm saying sneeze in its general direction to strip the stealth and weaken its missile in one go, from their you have basically a Tie fighter with less agility to be eliminated at my convenience.

I am not worried as much about a 4 die attack at PS2 I'm worried about stopping the 5 die one.

Focus firing is great and all but there are times when split firing is more beneficial, and a hardwired refusal to deviate from a tactic will be a certain loss no matter what you target.

The hard part is, spending just 1 shot to strip a Stealth Device could mean another ship lives by 1 HP. Heck, I think I'd prefer it if my opponent wasted 1 shot, spreading the damage like that.

That's pretty situational. It's a weak tactic. Stealth device is already unreliable. Putting it on a PS2 ship to add the damage is not going to help. Especially considering if they make you burn that focus you still cannot fire.

It's for the bait, If I have Howlrunner lined up Range 2 and a Scimitar with PR and SD at range 1, you tell me who you'd rather shoot. Especially when Howlrunner is still supporting 5 APs. It creates a tough decision with no good answer. Even if you just waste 1 shot on the Bomber to strip the SD, you've reduced your chances to kill another ship that turn, meaning you might as well stick to killing the Bomber or risk no kills. You'll need all the shots you can to kill a Range 2 Howlrunner, after all. Of course, you could shoot for the Range 1 APs after stripping the SD, but now you'll only kill 1 instead of 2, that sort of thing. Finish off the Bomber and you're range 1/2 of 5 APs all supported by the Howlrunner, don't shoot it at all, and risk a 5 dice attack. Math probably says to shoot the APs, but wouldn't it just suck if that Bomber removed the shields of that B Wing or just 1 shot another Tie all by itself? Just my 2 cents.

I think the proton rocket is a good missile. I'm sure I'll use them. However, they are only range 1, and only truly excel on a couple ships in the game. It makes them a niche choice but still solid. I will say I don't think they outclass the other missile choices. Aside from homing ( which I always kind of liked, but that's another story. ) Concussion is a little eh, but assault serves a purpose and cluster against certain ships ( yet again, a niche choice ) can be potent.

That said, for heavy missile use ships I think i'll favor the status affecting ord, like ion pulse and flakk torps. Things that will be cheap, still do a little damage hopefully and otherwise mess with the enemy. I think those kinds of secondary weapons for missiles and torps we'll see more of and they will end up being the ones giving people problems. Though I do like proton rockets and find APT to be, a trap most of the time.

Though I've been shot at and blown up with all sorts of secondary missiles and torps, my local meta is more on the casual competitive end.

That said I'm sorry people will drop the numbers on me and say why they are the best thing ever. However, I will say, how about we see how it runs, in actual practice before we claim the doom of all other missiles. Especially when they will surely keep making new missiles, so todays top dog is the next days left overs.

Not to mention numbers, but screaming in with an A-Wing and dropping 5 red dice focused at point blank range? Possibly with extra dice thanks to EPTs? Ain't nuthin' wrong with that. That's just pure, unadulterated fun.

They should make a new pilot, Russel, just for this rocket.