A stealth device in a Z-95 turns it into an A-Wing. And if used on one of the named pilots, might be pretty decent.

But it also makes it cost almost as much as an a-wing, and the z-95's third point of agility is only temporary. IMO once you start putting stealth devices on your z-95s you might as well just buy better ships with those points.As for the named pilots, probably not. A proton rocket is a waste of Blount's incredibly valuable ability, and Cracken probably wants cluster missiles if you're going to give him any weapon upgrades.

You mean it costs just as much as an awing without a missile and the potential for a 5 atk Range 1 atk.

You realize the entire point of the z95 is a cheap missle platform and you can spam z95s with proton rockets like no other.

Kath or Boba with Recon Specialist, Proton Rockets and maybe PtL. Works with the Slave-1 upgrade (torpedo) and all around usefulness once the ordinance is away...

Explain how Proton Rocket is better at range one on a Firespray than their regular range one shot? (Outside of Epic where Stealth can help stop snipage.

A stealth device in a Z-95 turns it into an A-Wing. And if used on one of the named pilots, might be pretty decent.

But it also makes it cost almost as much as an a-wing, and the z-95's third point of agility is only temporary. IMO once you start putting stealth devices on your z-95s you might as well just buy better ships with those points.As for the named pilots, probably not. A proton rocket is a waste of Blount's incredibly valuable ability, and Cracken probably wants cluster missiles if you're going to give him any weapon upgrades.

You mean it costs just as much as an awing without a missile and the potential for a 5 atk Range 1 atk.

You realize the entire point of the z95 is a cheap missle platform and you can spam z95s with proton rockets like no other.

Right. But there is no reason to stealth a Z-95 just to up Proton Rockets damage by 1. Never. just run the A-Wing. It gets boost, evade, more agility, and a better dial to use with Proton Rockets.

An awing in comparison to a z95 w proton rocket and stealth has boost evade a better dial and a worse range 1 atk. If stealth is still on the z95 it's a 5 atk without it's still 4. You're still being dismissive. If I don't care about evade or a better dial and I wanted a cheap ship w a strong atk the z95 with a proton rocket is the best option. You can make a list of 6 z95s all with proton rocket and 3 with stealth devices and have a very effective swarm. The most you can get out of the awing w proton rockets are 5 ships.

So, you can obtain a target lock in an earlier round, K-turn and or take another action and still fire those missiles later.

But how often will you ever want to do this? If you're at range 2-3 when you get the TL you can just fire your missile immediately (and if you're at range 1 you're at proton rocket range already). The main reason to TL a turn before you fire is if you're going for a TL + focus stack, and you're not getting that if you're k-turning on the turn you fire the missile. Assuming you're willing to fire without focus you're really only getting any advantage from being able to TL in the rare situation where you skip range 2-3 entirely and move directly into range 1 where you can't fire your chosen missile.

Kath or Boba with Recon Specialist, Proton Rockets and maybe PtL. Works with the Slave-1 upgrade (torpedo) and all around usefulness once the ordinance is away...

Explain how Proton Rocket is better at range one on a Firespray than their regular range one shot? (Outside of Epic where Stealth can help stop snipage.

I dunno, was just trying to put an end to all the b#tchin'...my failure is now complete.

A stealth device in a Z-95 turns it into an A-Wing. And if used on one of the named pilots, might be pretty decent.

But it also makes it cost almost as much as an a-wing, and the z-95's third point of agility is only temporary. IMO once you start putting stealth devices on your z-95s you might as well just buy better ships with those points.As for the named pilots, probably not. A proton rocket is a waste of Blount's incredibly valuable ability, and Cracken probably wants cluster missiles if you're going to give him any weapon upgrades.

You mean it costs just as much as an awing without a missile and the potential for a 5 atk Range 1 atk.

You realize the entire point of the z95 is a cheap missle platform and you can spam z95s with proton rockets like no other.

Right. But there is no reason to stealth a Z-95 just to up Proton Rockets damage by 1. Never. just run the A-Wing. It gets boost, evade, more agility, and a better dial to use with Proton Rockets.

You do realize stealth device increase survivabilty. It's not just to increase damage on the proton rocket. It synergize perfectly on a 2 agi ship.

An awing in comparison to a z95 w proton rocket and stealth has boost evade a better dial and a worse range 1 atk. If stealth is still on the z95 it's a 5 atk without it's still 4. You're still being dismissive. If I don't care about evade or a better dial and I wanted a cheap ship w a strong atk the z95 with a proton rocket is the best option. You can make a list of 6 z95s all with proton rocket and 3 with stealth devices and have a very effective swarm. The most you can get out of the awing w proton rockets are 5 ships.

Which brings us back to, the Proton Rocket does not invalidate all other missiles.

A stealth device in a Z-95 turns it into an A-Wing. And if used on one of the named pilots, might be pretty decent.

But it also makes it cost almost as much as an a-wing, and the z-95's third point of agility is only temporary. IMO once you start putting stealth devices on your z-95s you might as well just buy better ships with those points.As for the named pilots, probably not. A proton rocket is a waste of Blount's incredibly valuable ability, and Cracken probably wants cluster missiles if you're going to give him any weapon upgrades.

You mean it costs just as much as an awing without a missile and the potential for a 5 atk Range 1 atk.

You realize the entire point of the z95 is a cheap missle platform and you can spam z95s with proton rockets like no other.

Right. But there is no reason to stealth a Z-95 just to up Proton Rockets damage by 1. Never. just run the A-Wing. It gets boost, evade, more agility, and a better dial to use with Proton Rockets.

You do realize stealth device increase survivabilty. It's not just to increase damage on the proton rocket. It synergize perfectly on a 2 agi ship.

Lol I can't imagine how bad/unlucky your opponents are if a Z-95 at ps2 makes it all the way to range 1 and gets to its pilot skill step (including if the opponent has initiative) and still has its stealth device and/or didn't have to spend its focus.

As an Imperial player I know all too well 3 evade dice isn't anything amazing to make it to r1 unscathed, heck, 4 dice isn't enough to make it to r1 unscathed

So, you can obtain a target lock in an earlier round, K-turn and or take another action and still fire those missiles later.

But how often will you ever want to do this? If you're at range 2-3 when you get the TL you can just fire your missile immediately (and if you're at range 1 you're at proton rocket range already). The main reason to TL a turn before you fire is if you're going for a TL + focus stack, and you're not getting that if you're k-turning on the turn you fire the missile. Assuming you're willing to fire without focus you're really only getting any advantage from being able to TL in the rare situation where you skip range 2-3 entirely and move directly into range 1 where you can't fire your chosen missile.

Well for example if you have 2 ships you can shoot at one is a ship you have TLed the other is a ship that has you in a disadvantageous position that has been damaged by your other ships that could not shoot at your TLed ship for whatever reason, or the TLed ship is less off a threat you shoot at the other ship to kill it and then you still have your TL left on the other

A stealth device in a Z-95 turns it into an A-Wing. And if used on one of the named pilots, might be pretty decent.

But it also makes it cost almost as much as an a-wing, and the z-95's third point of agility is only temporary. IMO once you start putting stealth devices on your z-95s you might as well just buy better ships with those points.As for the named pilots, probably not. A proton rocket is a waste of Blount's incredibly valuable ability, and Cracken probably wants cluster missiles if you're going to give him any weapon upgrades.

You mean it costs just as much as an awing without a missile and the potential for a 5 atk Range 1 atk.

You realize the entire point of the z95 is a cheap missle platform and you can spam z95s with proton rockets like no other.

Right. But there is no reason to stealth a Z-95 just to up Proton Rockets damage by 1. Never. just run the A-Wing. It gets boost, evade, more agility, and a better dial to use with Proton Rockets.

You do realize stealth device increase survivabilty. It's not just to increase damage on the proton rocket. It synergize perfectly on a 2 agi ship.

Lol I can't imagine how bad/unlucky your opponents are if a Z-95 at ps2 makes it all the way to range 1 and gets to its pilot skill step (including if the opponent has initiative) and still has its stealth device and/or didn't have to spend its focus.

As an Imperial player I know all too well 3 evade dice isn't anything amazing to make it to r1 unscathed, heck, 4 dice isn't enough to make it to r1 unscathed

Shhhhh..... let him dream... let him dream.....

Lol I can't imagine how bad/unlucky your opponents are if a Z-95 at ps2 makes it all the way to range 1 and gets to its pilot skill step (including if the opponent has initiative) and still has its stealth device and/or didn't have to spend its focus.

You know there are other ships on the table, right? If you've got a swarm of Z-95s then some of them are going to get through, and if that Z-95 is flying alongside a Falcon/b-wings/etc then congratulations, by focusing everything on the Z-95 to stop it at all costs you just gave your opponent Biggs at a 7-point discount and without the range limit.

Exactly. If the only thing SD did was give you one extra attack die, then sure. It would be terrible.

But it's one element of a list. So SD does a few things.

Makes the Z as defensive as an A with a huge increase in offensive punch.

Boosts the strength of the rocket attack.

And (the most important use for SD) it jacks with your opponents targeting decisions. IMO this is the best effect of SD. Opponents now have to decide what to target in your list - that 2 evade X-Wing, the 1 Evade B-Wing, or the Z-95. Most of the time I find that they end up doing weird things like splitting fire and such.

It's a win win situation. If they focus the Z, you just got a free Biggs. And if they ignore it, you have a ship that is actually a little dangerous - as opposed to a naked Z.

And as I said, only time will tell if it's viable.

So, you can obtain a target lock in an earlier round, K-turn and or take another action and still fire those missiles later.

But how often will you ever want to do this? If you're at range 2-3 when you get the TL you can just fire your missile immediately (and if you're at range 1 you're at proton rocket range already). The main reason to TL a turn before you fire is if you're going for a TL + focus stack, and you're not getting that if you're k-turning on the turn you fire the missile. Assuming you're willing to fire without focus you're really only getting any advantage from being able to TL in the rare situation where you skip range 2-3 entirely and move directly into range 1 where you can't fire your chosen missile.

Sometimes you are in TL range and don't have a shot. But, more often it's because I carry multiple missiles (AM and Cluster) on my bomber and for whatever reason my 1-2 punch gets fouled up.

For example, if I find myself in Range 2 with Cluster and Assault but decide the Cluster is the better shot. I won't be able to stay in R2 for the next round to use AM, so I often use either a hard 3 or 4 to get out of range or past my opponent and play for the shot an extra turn down the road. Or, if I like my odds of survival, I move into R1 and TL. Either way the next move is to come back around with a 5K and fire the range 2-3 missiles.

Well, first, lets get some perspective, its not like most forces need to focus all their might to wipe out a Z, even with an SD. It would only take one good hit, then one or two more mediocre ones to ace him.

In the end your saving 2 points at the cost of 1 agility being temporary. Sure, that may be worth it sometimes when your close to the line on points, but I'd rather pay two more points and keep my agility even if a shot comes through. You also gain the boost action for those two points, which is pretty solid.

It's funny to see the apt comparison and then realize stealth + proton rocket on a two agility ship like a bomber or firespray is also 6 points.

Personally, I like that it's another option out there, and is worthy of taking over chardaan refit.

Just out of curiosity, what if there were 'faction' cards for such things? FFG has said the game takes place in the OT. So at this time the Empire is a huge war machine with unlimited resources. What if there was a selection of Empire cards like "War Machine: All Missiles cost -2." Rebels could have some other benefit like -1 to droids or something.

Just out of curiosity, what if there were 'faction' cards for such things? FFG has said the game takes place in the OT. So at this time the Empire is a huge war machine with unlimited resources. What if there was a selection of Empire cards like "War Machine: All Missiles cost -2." Rebels could have some other benefit like -1 to droids or something.

Plenty of cards are labeled "Rebel only" or "Imperial only." I don't see why they wouldn't expand on that at some point.

I think the APT and PR are costed correctly. I often using Missiles and Torps (even in Regionals) in my lists and never regret taking them.

I have spent 18pts on 3 APT's in one local comp and won every game with only 1 ship left on 2 or less hull every game. They were the most fun and intense games because I had to fly to my best to make the list work.

If an upgrade brings something to my list I will find the points for it.

This may be an odd complaint, but I feel that the Proton Rockets really don't fit their flavor at all. I remember them being used primarily against capital ships. Of course, I'm wondering if they still intend to make Heavy Space Bombs/Rockets. If those things walloped Huge ships then I'd be happy.

I agree that I wish they had a direct bonus to huge ships, but they are still really effective against them. Getting in to range 1 will be super easy, and 5 dice against 0 agi will be brutal, especially with a focus backing it up, and possibly a target lock. It gives A-Wings and TIE Advanceds a solid wallop on the huge ship, and then they can divert to being hornets to the escorts.

That said, it'd be awesome to see some assets designed for fighters to use against Epic ships. I think they need to flesh epic out a smidge more. I haven't tried it myself, but reports seem to suggest fighters already have a strong advantage over the huge ships.

They do and they don't. It all depends on the strategies employed by each side. For instance, if you kit out your CR-90 for combat then it's a beast. But if you make it more of a support ship, then you'd better fly a good CAP or it's toast.

Well, it's the only missile apart from Cluster missiles that can shoot at range 1. And even then, saying one is strictly better than the other? Cracken will always take Clusters over Protons and Blount would sooner take the IPM's. Gemma might like them but they are not the most natural fit for a YT 1300. So on the Rebel side you'd most likely throw them on A-Wings or Dash with a Stealth Device.

On the Imperial side I guess they will most likely end up on some Advanceds and possibly a Bomber or two. I think most people flying a Defender would sooner take an Ion Cannon or an Engine Upgrade over a single shot weapon and the Protons are not super beneficial to a Firespray.

The whole premise in the OP falls a bit flat to me because there's only one ship capable of running either of the two (not counting the Slave 1 title, because of reasons), and then the Protons drop to 4 red dice or add one for the price of a Stealth device bringing them on an equal damage output level. At that point you'll be adding variables that make a comparison much harder, if not impossible.

This may be an odd complaint, but I feel that the Proton Rockets really don't fit their flavor at all. I remember them being used primarily against capital ships. Of course, I'm wondering if they still intend to make Heavy Space Bombs/Rockets. If those things walloped Huge ships then I'd be happy.

I think it fits the fluff just fine. It's not a fast and agile missile that can track a target as long as you launch it in the right direction, it's a short-range weapon that depends on the agility of the firing ship to line up a perfect shot. An a-wing is able to out-maneuver its prey and land a direct hit, a YT-1300 is going to be lucky to hit with the edge of the blast radius and scratch some paint. It even works perfectly with requiring a focus token instead of a target lock to fire, it's all about pilot skill over targeting computers.

This may be an odd complaint, but I feel that the Proton Rockets really don't fit their flavor at all. I remember them being used primarily against capital ships. Of course, I'm wondering if they still intend to make Heavy Space Bombs/Rockets. If those things walloped Huge ships then I'd be happy.

I think it fits the fluff just fine. It's not a fast and agile missile that can track a target as long as you launch it in the right direction, it's a short-range weapon that depends on the agility of the firing ship to line up a perfect shot. An a-wing is able to out-maneuver its prey and land a direct hit, a YT-1300 is going to be lucky to hit with the edge of the blast radius and scratch some paint. It even works perfectly with requiring a focus token instead of a target lock to fire, it's all about pilot skill over targeting computers.

As far as the fluff comment, I believe he is more referring to its role in the video games, which was killing big heavy tanky things, which isn't 100% represented. However you are right, its current incarnation does reflect the whole dumb fire missile quite well.

Everyone's freaking out over the proton rockets, and are forgetting these rockets have no special modifiers modifiers: they're more dice only, and using them gives up your R1 shot that's +1 die anyway.

THE GOOD: 3 AGILITY BAND, 5 DAMAGE PROTON ROCKET

A-wing, +2 dice over primary weapon attack. Has to pay 5 for them (almost APT cost) by sacrificing Chardaan Refit.

TIE advanced, +2 dice over primary weapon attack. Makes maximum use from the rockets but has to deal with its own overcosting.

TIE defender, +1 die over primary weapon attack. Is that really worth it?

THE BAD: 2 AGILITY BAND, 4 DAMAGE PROTON ROCKET
Z-95 Headhunter. +1 die over primary weapon attack. Once again, you're paying three points for this. One more point gives you Opportunist which, if you can shed the stress, gives you as many shots with it as you want.
TIE bomber, same as Z-95. You're probably better off with a bomb to be honest.
Firespray-31. +0 dice over primary weapon attack. Useless.

THE UGLY: 1 AGILITY BAND, 3 DAMAGE PROTON ROCKET.
Millenium Falcon, -1 die over primary weapon attack. That's right. -1.

This may be an odd complaint, but I feel that the Proton Rockets really don't fit their flavor at all. I remember them being used primarily against capital ships. Of course, I'm wondering if they still intend to make Heavy Space Bombs/Rockets. If those things walloped Huge ships then I'd be happy.

Thematically, the proton rocket you flew right up to a Corvette as close as you could to a vital point, dumbfired and got out of there. The person best at that? Maarek Steele,who synergises very nicely with a 5 die attack.

THE BAD: 2 AGILITY BAND, 4 DAMAGE PROTON ROCKET

Z-95 Headhunter. +1 die over primary weapon attack. Once again, you're paying three points for this. One more point gives you Opportunist which, if you can shed the stress, gives you as many shots with it as you want.

TIE bomber, same as Z-95. You're probably better off with a bomb to be honest.

And how many bandits can you fly with Opportunist? Is that number even anywhere near more than 0?

Yet every Bandit and Scimitar out there can fly one of these rockets without problems. So now you're saying that the rockets are bad because for one point more, and an elite pilot cost, you can take an EPT which stresses you out.

How is that better really?

And there's a lot of "it doesn't benefit all ships so it sucks" vibe around, why is that?

So what if putting it on Han Solo won't benefit you, why would you want to? It helps A-Wings, Advanceds, gives more options for other ships and casual gamers are gonna love it because of the same reason Expose is a great casual card: it is fun to blow up stuff with big explosions.

Who the hell cares that putting it on a Firespray won't benefit the attack.