Okay 1st off, I want to say that I think Proton Rockets is good and appears to be well priced.

Its just that it costs 3 points and Advanced Protons cost 6. Is APT really 3 pts better than Proton Rockets?

To explain, with a TL and Focus APT has >99% chance on doing 5 pts of damage. Without the focus, it does 2.5 pts of damage on average and requires a TL on who you want to shoot.

By comparsion the Proton Rockets attack with 5 dice if mounted on a ship with 3 agility. (I choose to read the second paragraph as if it says, "Only mount this on an A-Wing, Tie Advanced or Tie Defender or its a waste"). It requires a Focus that you do not need to spend. That averages 3.75 pts of damage. With a target lock, that goes to 4.55 damage on average.

Basic analysis is that the APT does about .45 damage more on average than a Proton Rocket. Its costs 3 points more. Thats a 2nd Proton Rocket. (or double the Proton Rockets numbers above).

I get that they use to overprice missiles, but this is kinda ridiculous. I am sort of willing to say that the .5 more damage is worth 1 pt, but once you factor in TL required spend vs just needing a focus, that kind of goes away. Do you think the APT is overpriced or is the PR underpriced?

Okay 1st off, I want to say that I think Proton Rockets is good and appears to be well priced.

Its just that it costs 3 points and Advanced Protons cost 6. Is APT really 3 pts better than Proton Rockets?

To explain, with a TL and Focus APT has >99% chance on doing 5 pts of damage. Without the focus, it does 2.5 pts of damage on average and requires a TL on who you want to shoot.

By comparsion the Proton Rockets attack with 5 dice if mounted on a ship with 3 agility. (I choose to read the second paragraph as if it says, "Only mount this on an A-Wing, Tie Advanced or Tie Defender or its a waste"). It requires a Focus that you do not need to spend. That averages 3.75 pts of damage. With a target lock, that goes to 4.55 damage on average.

Basic analysis is that the APT does about .45 damage more on average than a Proton Rocket. Its costs 3 points more. Thats a 2nd Proton Rocket. (or double the Proton Rockets numbers above).

I get that they use to overprice missiles, but this is kinda ridiculous. I am sort of willing to say that the .5 more damage is worth 1 pt, but once you factor in TL required spend vs just needing a focus, that kind of goes away. Do you think the APT is overpriced or is the PR underpriced?

Advanced Proton Torps work the same on every ship with a Torpedo slot.

It should come as no surprise that many older missiles and torpedoes are a bit overpriced, seems to have been so from the very beginning.

PR is priced correctly.

On an A-Wing it actually costs five as we have the refit that would otherways reduce the A-Wing's cost.

On a TIE Advanced it only costs 3 but the Advanced needs all the help it can get. This might actually bring back the use of pilot Vader.

On a TIE Defender it is mostly a waste as it only increases attack at range one with one die.

Don't forget that you need a 3 agility ship to get the 5 Atk dice. On an A-wing, you are also giving up the -2 cost of the Chardaan Refit. So, on an A-wing, it is the same as a 5 pt missile on any other ship. The only other 2 ships that can get the 5 Atk are the TIE Advanced and TIE Defender. I'm not seeing a huge boost in Advanced usage with this Missile. And the Defender is an expensive ship, and you are paying 3pts for one additional attack die. Not that exciting.

It is great, not doubt. But I don't see how it so much better than the Torpedoes. Especially since the Torpedos are far more reliable with Target Lock and Focus.

I think its decently priced. It's going to be more of 'niche' missile since you can't exactly throw it on a bomber or a Z-95 and get stellar results. Its basically built for A-wings and the TIE advanced (and who are we kidding? when I say TIE advanced I mean Vader)

You have to get in range one and its only really worth it on a small cross section of ships

I think it's reasonably priced. If we use your example of only on A-Wings, Advanced and Defenders we get:

A-Wing, effectively a 5 point upgrade, as you could take the -2 refit instead...

Defender, you're only getting one more attack dice over it's standard 4 at range 1.

Tie Advanced, finally an upgrade that makes taking an advanced a not terrible choice.

Overall seems very balanced for it's points. As well, when you consider the other current ships that can take advantage of the missile it's points seem in-line with other options.

Also if you are taking a Proton Rocket you are not taking an Assault Missile or Cluster missile.

Okay 1st off, I want to say that I think Proton Rockets is good and appears to be well priced.

Its just that it costs 3 points and Advanced Protons cost 6. Is APT really 3 pts better than Proton Rockets?

To explain, with a TL and Focus APT has >99% chance on doing 5 pts of damage. Without the focus, it does 2.5 pts of damage on average and requires a TL on who you want to shoot.

By comparsion the Proton Rockets attack with 5 dice if mounted on a ship with 3 agility. (I choose to read the second paragraph as if it says, "Only mount this on an A-Wing, Tie Advanced or Tie Defender or its a waste"). It requires a Focus that you do not need to spend. That averages 3.75 pts of damage. With a target lock, that goes to 4.55 damage on average.

Basic analysis is that the APT does about .45 damage more on average than a Proton Rocket. Its costs 3 points more. Thats a 2nd Proton Rocket. (or double the Proton Rockets numbers above).

I get that they use to overprice missiles, but this is kinda ridiculous. I am sort of willing to say that the .5 more damage is worth 1 pt, but once you factor in TL required spend vs just needing a focus, that kind of goes away. Do you think the APT is overpriced or is the PR underpriced?

APT are demonstratively overcosted.

Proton Rockets absorb the over-cost of the A-Wing, TIE Advanced, and Defender.

...Man, I can't WAIT to use them with Defenders

Also if you are taking a Proton Rocket you are not taking an Assault Missile or Cluster missile.

It does very much outclass Cluster missiles on not Falcon, Not Firesprays... But Clusters were pretty bad...

As a fan of the TIE Bomber, I really like the Proton Rocket. You have to be in Range 1, but initiative is no longer an issue. With 2 agility, you get the 4 dice of almost any 4 point missile for a point less. With Rhymer, they can be fired at Range 2. The Z95 may benefit also, in that, again, its a 4 die focused attack, making it better than its primary weapon but cheaper than most other missiles.

Otherwise, I agree with what has been said already: the A-wing is likely the best platform but it costs 5 instead of 3 points. Vader will do great things with them. Defenders could make good use of them, but htey already get 4 dice at Range 1.

I am hearing that everyone agrees with me that PRs are well priced. Should I infer people think APTs are priced to high or do they think APTs are worth 2 PRs?

Okay 1st off, I want to say that I think Proton Rockets is good and appears to be well priced.

Its just that it costs 3 points and Advanced Protons cost 6. Is APT really 3 pts better than Proton Rockets?

To explain, with a TL and Focus APT has >99% chance on doing 5 pts of damage. Without the focus, it does 2.5 pts of damage on average and requires a TL on who you want to shoot.

By comparsion the Proton Rockets attack with 5 dice if mounted on a ship with 3 agility. (I choose to read the second paragraph as if it says, "Only mount this on an A-Wing, Tie Advanced or Tie Defender or its a waste"). It requires a Focus that you do not need to spend. That averages 3.75 pts of damage. With a target lock, that goes to 4.55 damage on average.

Basic analysis is that the APT does about .45 damage more on average than a Proton Rocket. Its costs 3 points more. Thats a 2nd Proton Rocket. (or double the Proton Rockets numbers above).

I get that they use to overprice missiles, but this is kinda ridiculous. I am sort of willing to say that the .5 more damage is worth 1 pt, but once you factor in TL required spend vs just needing a focus, that kind of goes away. Do you think the APT is overpriced or is the PR underpriced?

Proton Rockets are only that good on 3 ships, all of which are seen as a little overcosted.
Advanced Proton Torps work the same on every ship with a Torpedo slot.

While APTs can fit on anything with a Torp slot, it runs into the same "issue" as the PRs. I wouldn;t put it on anything with a 3 firepower, meaning it mostly works on Bombers and Y-Wings.

I am hearing that everyone agrees with me that PRs are well priced. Should I infer people think APTs are priced to high or do they think APTs are worth 2 PRs?

Okay 1st off, I want to say that I think Proton Rockets is good and appears to be well priced.

Its just that it costs 3 points and Advanced Protons cost 6. Is APT really 3 pts better than Proton Rockets?

To explain, with a TL and Focus APT has >99% chance on doing 5 pts of damage. Without the focus, it does 2.5 pts of damage on average and requires a TL on who you want to shoot.

By comparsion the Proton Rockets attack with 5 dice if mounted on a ship with 3 agility. (I choose to read the second paragraph as if it says, "Only mount this on an A-Wing, Tie Advanced or Tie Defender or its a waste"). It requires a Focus that you do not need to spend. That averages 3.75 pts of damage. With a target lock, that goes to 4.55 damage on average.

Basic analysis is that the APT does about .45 damage more on average than a Proton Rocket. Its costs 3 points more. Thats a 2nd Proton Rocket. (or double the Proton Rockets numbers above).

I get that they use to overprice missiles, but this is kinda ridiculous. I am sort of willing to say that the .5 more damage is worth 1 pt, but once you factor in TL required spend vs just needing a focus, that kind of goes away. Do you think the APT is overpriced or is the PR underpriced?

Proton Rockets are only that good on 3 ships, all of which are seen as a little overcosted.

Advanced Proton Torps work the same on every ship with a Torpedo slot.

While APTs can fit on anything with a Torp slot, it runs into the same "issue" as the PRs. I wouldn;t put it on anything with a 3 firepower, meaning it mostly works on Bombers and Y-Wings.

Maybe the Decimator will be ok with this, but Recon Spec on a 0-1 agility ship kinda blows.

It is great, not doubt. But I don't see how it so much better than the Torpedoes. Especially since the Torpedos are far more reliable with Target Lock and Focus.

Yes, assuming you can get Target Lock and Focus it's going to be great. But that's actually a tall order. You're looking at a very nontrivial investment in order to make that happen. Proton Rockets very very close to its efficiency, if not its guarantee, for half the cost without needing the action shenanigans.

I think everyone's underestimating the use of these things on Bombers and Headhunters. Will it get to 5 dice? No... but it's the equivalent of a Homing Missile + Deadeye, a 6-point mix, for half the cost, and the only thing you really lose is that Homings nullify evades (I consider the range to be a pretty equal thing). It's going to be a good, efficient 4-dice attack for a relatively cheap cost.

Advanced Protons work on many more ships but they are not easy to pull off. Major Rhymer can do wonders with them though, especially if he is supplied TLs from a Lamda

I personally have had luck with APTs on low skilled Y-Wings supported by Dutch. It kinda creates a dilema between shooting down the Y with the torps and let Dutch live or taking out Dutch and losing one of your ships to a Gold. I have yet to figure em out on Bombers except for one Major exception (and I have cost issues flying that guy).

Some people like them with Wedge, but thats to many points on one ship for me. Ditto with Kath.

I am hearing that everyone agrees with me that PRs are well priced. Should I infer people think APTs are priced to high or do they think APTs are worth 2 PRs?

Okay 1st off, I want to say that I think Proton Rockets is good and appears to be well priced.

Its just that it costs 3 points and Advanced Protons cost 6. Is APT really 3 pts better than Proton Rockets?

To explain, with a TL and Focus APT has >99% chance on doing 5 pts of damage. Without the focus, it does 2.5 pts of damage on average and requires a TL on who you want to shoot.

By comparsion the Proton Rockets attack with 5 dice if mounted on a ship with 3 agility. (I choose to read the second paragraph as if it says, "Only mount this on an A-Wing, Tie Advanced or Tie Defender or its a waste"). It requires a Focus that you do not need to spend. That averages 3.75 pts of damage. With a target lock, that goes to 4.55 damage on average.

Basic analysis is that the APT does about .45 damage more on average than a Proton Rocket. Its costs 3 points more. Thats a 2nd Proton Rocket. (or double the Proton Rockets numbers above).

I get that they use to overprice missiles, but this is kinda ridiculous. I am sort of willing to say that the .5 more damage is worth 1 pt, but once you factor in TL required spend vs just needing a focus, that kind of goes away. Do you think the APT is overpriced or is the PR underpriced?

Proton Rockets are only that good on 3 ships, all of which are seen as a little overcosted.

Advanced Proton Torps work the same on every ship with a Torpedo slot.

While APTs can fit on anything with a Torp slot, it runs into the same "issue" as the PRs. I wouldn;t put it on anything with a 3 firepower, meaning it mostly works on Bombers and Y-Wings.

I've only seen Advanced Protons work on one ship. Kath with Deadeye, Recon Spec, and APT. 5 Nigh on guaranteed hits is worth 7 points if it works, but it's so hard to arrange without the above that it just isn't worthwhile.

Maybe the Decimator will be ok with this, but Recon Spec on a 0-1 agility ship kinda blows.

When Rebel Aces comes out I'm looking forward to trying a B-Wing with Recon Spec, Deadeye, and a pair of APT's. It'll probably be cost prohibitive, but it'll be scary.

I am hearing that everyone agrees with me that PRs are well priced. Should I infer people think APTs are priced to high or do they think APTs are worth 2 PRs?

Okay 1st off, I want to say that I think Proton Rockets is good and appears to be well priced.

Its just that it costs 3 points and Advanced Protons cost 6. Is APT really 3 pts better than Proton Rockets?

To explain, with a TL and Focus APT has >99% chance on doing 5 pts of damage. Without the focus, it does 2.5 pts of damage on average and requires a TL on who you want to shoot.

By comparsion the Proton Rockets attack with 5 dice if mounted on a ship with 3 agility. (I choose to read the second paragraph as if it says, "Only mount this on an A-Wing, Tie Advanced or Tie Defender or its a waste"). It requires a Focus that you do not need to spend. That averages 3.75 pts of damage. With a target lock, that goes to 4.55 damage on average.

Basic analysis is that the APT does about .45 damage more on average than a Proton Rocket. Its costs 3 points more. Thats a 2nd Proton Rocket. (or double the Proton Rockets numbers above).

I get that they use to overprice missiles, but this is kinda ridiculous. I am sort of willing to say that the .5 more damage is worth 1 pt, but once you factor in TL required spend vs just needing a focus, that kind of goes away. Do you think the APT is overpriced or is the PR underpriced?

Proton Rockets are only that good on 3 ships, all of which are seen as a little overcosted.

Advanced Proton Torps work the same on every ship with a Torpedo slot.

While APTs can fit on anything with a Torp slot, it runs into the same "issue" as the PRs. I wouldn;t put it on anything with a 3 firepower, meaning it mostly works on Bombers and Y-Wings.

I've only seen Advanced Protons work on one ship. Kath with Deadeye, Recon Spec, and APT. 5 Nigh on guaranteed hits is worth 7 points if it works, but it's so hard to arrange without the above that it just isn't worthwhile.

Maybe the Decimator will be ok with this, but Recon Spec on a 0-1 agility ship kinda blows.

When Rebel Aces comes out I'm looking forward to trying a B-Wing with Recon Spec, Deadeye, and a pair of APT's. It'll probably be cost prohibitive, but it'll be scary.

That's more points in upgrades on one ship than I've run on my last half dozen lists, maybe more.

Here's the thing about using it with a Bomber and Z-95. I don't trust the Z-95 to make to range 1. Bombers will likely have Jonus, at which point, is it really that bad to use other Missiles?

I am hearing that everyone agrees with me that PRs are well priced. Should I infer people think APTs are priced to high or do they think APTs are worth 2 PRs?

Okay 1st off, I want to say that I think Proton Rockets is good and appears to be well priced.

Its just that it costs 3 points and Advanced Protons cost 6. Is APT really 3 pts better than Proton Rockets?

To explain, with a TL and Focus APT has >99% chance on doing 5 pts of damage. Without the focus, it does 2.5 pts of damage on average and requires a TL on who you want to shoot.

By comparsion the Proton Rockets attack with 5 dice if mounted on a ship with 3 agility. (I choose to read the second paragraph as if it says, "Only mount this on an A-Wing, Tie Advanced or Tie Defender or its a waste"). It requires a Focus that you do not need to spend. That averages 3.75 pts of damage. With a target lock, that goes to 4.55 damage on average.

Basic analysis is that the APT does about .45 damage more on average than a Proton Rocket. Its costs 3 points more. Thats a 2nd Proton Rocket. (or double the Proton Rockets numbers above).

I get that they use to overprice missiles, but this is kinda ridiculous. I am sort of willing to say that the .5 more damage is worth 1 pt, but once you factor in TL required spend vs just needing a focus, that kind of goes away. Do you think the APT is overpriced or is the PR underpriced?

Proton Rockets are only that good on 3 ships, all of which are seen as a little overcosted.

Advanced Proton Torps work the same on every ship with a Torpedo slot.

While APTs can fit on anything with a Torp slot, it runs into the same "issue" as the PRs. I wouldn;t put it on anything with a 3 firepower, meaning it mostly works on Bombers and Y-Wings.

I've only seen Advanced Protons work on one ship. Kath with Deadeye, Recon Spec, and APT. 5 Nigh on guaranteed hits is worth 7 points if it works, but it's so hard to arrange without the above that it just isn't worthwhile.

Maybe the Decimator will be ok with this, but Recon Spec on a 0-1 agility ship kinda blows.

When Rebel Aces comes out I'm looking forward to trying a B-Wing with Recon Spec, Deadeye, and a pair of APT's. It'll probably be cost prohibitive, but it'll be scary.

Good luck...

That's more points in upgrades on one ship than I've run on my last half dozen lists, maybe more.

Just because it's a bad idea doesn't mean it won't be fun. Probably would never see tournament play, but in a casual game.........

(I choose to read the second paragraph as if it says, "Only mount this on an A-Wing, Tie Advanced or Tie Defender or its a waste").

You would be very wrong about that. Put it on a Z-95 or TIE bomber and you have a 3-point "homing missile" with built-in deadeye, and the only drawback is that you lose the ability to ignore evade tokens. For three points that's still a very good deal.

Basic analysis is that the APT does about .45 damage more on average than a Proton Rocket.

The problem is that your basic analysis is too basic. Remember, X-Wing is a game with opposed dice, not just "roll to see how much damage you inflict". This means that what matters is the difference between offensive and defensive dice. So a difference of half a point of damage on average can be a huge increase in firepower if you're only averaging half a point of damage getting through the target's defense. To put this into context stacking focus + TL on a 3-dice ship only adds about half a point of damage compared to just focus, and this is considered an extremely powerful action.

So it looks like proton rockets are going to be more cost-effective against low-agility targets where you're almost guaranteed to do good damage even if you don't roll all hits, while the guaranteed 5 damage of APTs is better against high-agility targets that threaten to negate a bad proton rocket roll.

It is great, not doubt. But I don't see how it so much better than the Torpedoes. Especially since the Torpedos are far more reliable with Target Lock and Focus.

Yes, assuming you can get Target Lock and Focus it's going to be great. But that's actually a tall order. You're looking at a very nontrivial investment in order to make that happen. Proton Rockets very very close to its efficiency, if not its guarantee, for half the cost without needing the action shenanigans.

I think everyone's underestimating the use of these things on Bombers and Headhunters. Will it get to 5 dice? No... but it's the equivalent of a Homing Missile + Deadeye, a 6-point mix, for half the cost, and the only thing you really lose is that Homings nullify evades (I consider the range to be a pretty equal thing). It's going to be a good, efficient 4-dice attack for a relatively cheap cost.

I am onboard with them on Bombers. 4 dice at range 1 with no TL, its a good investment for just 3 pts.

I don't understand how people think the Proton Rockets are incredibly amazing and outclass every other missile. Range 1 is a HUGE limitation. Remember in Range 1, you get +1 attack on your primary. Therefore, only A-wings and TIE Advanced get a +2 dice attack by using the Proton Rockets. On A-wings, these cost 5 points, and the TIE Advanced sucks. Everything else gets a one-use +1 attack if you're in Range 1. That could be worth it, but most of the time I'd rather have an EPT. Of course, if you're throwing Stealth Device on any of your ships that changes things - but is Stealth really worth it on a ship with 2 base agility?

TL;DR- the TIE Advanced will love these things, and a few A-wings will use them, but for other ships the Proton Rockets will be used no more often than any other missile/torpedo.

Why do people feel 3 agi is required for PR to be good. A 2 agi ship is still a 4 atk rocket add stealth device and you have the chance at 5 atk. It's still a great missile on a z95 for that reason.

Why do people feel 3 agi is required for PR to be good. A 2 agi ship is still a 4 atk rocket add stealth device and you have the chance at 5 atk. It's still a great missile on a z95 for that reason.

a 1 attack dice increase at range 1 is questionable. On the Firespray its redundant. On everything else it's not as big an increase to the point it's barely worth the 3 points. Ooh, 4 dice versus 3 on a z-95 at range 1.