I'd much rather see missile enhancements like Jonus and Failsafe, that work to make the missiles we have more viable. Instead we get a missile that's pretty much the equivalent of the few good missiles we have, at half the cost. Proton Rockets basically invalidate every missile we've already got. It's dumb, lazy design, just like the Chardaan refit. Getting less and less impressed with the Rebel Aces design.

I'd much rather see missile enhancements like Jonus and Failsafe, that work to make the missiles we have more viable. Instead we get a missile that's pretty much the equivalent of the few good missiles we have, at half the cost. Proton Rockets basically invalidate every missile we've already got. It's dumb, lazy design, just like the Chardaan refit. Getting less and less impressed with the Rebel Aces design.

Deadeye doesn't do it.

Munitions Failsafe doesn't do it.

Jonus doesn't do it.

That means either they errata the cards we have or start printing missiles that don't suck. They would need to print a low cost modification that read, when using a card that says when you discard a target lock token to fire a missile immediatly acquire an target lock on the defending ship or possibly take a free focus action in order to make them work. Even then, they cost too much, and there's not much to be done about it.

I really don't see how. Range 1 really is a big limitation. Other missiles fill different roles. They might "invalidate" concussion and cluster missiles, but all the others still have a place and role. Other missiles just need to be built towards a little more.

These are cheap and reliable but you've got to throw yourself in harm's way to make them pay off.

Proton Rockets on Rexler Brath is going to be the best use of it imho. 5 dice at R1, 6 w/opportunist (although I prefer Predator on Brath, ymmv). You can k-turn into it, and you don't have to spend the focus so you can cause fun critical shenanigans. It'll be pretty great on Vessery too, TL focus fun!

I would be careful, with 5 dice chances are you will need the focus to increase your hits granted predator may alleviate that a bit something to just keep you on Earth when thinking of that Combo

For the A-wing, TIE Advanced, and TIE Defender, I can see why the Proton Rockets are the go to missile. But for the Bomber, Z-95, Firespray, Falcon, and Outrider, I'm not seeing it quite so much as the only choice. It is still useful, sure. 4 Atk at Range 3, with no bonus defensive die, is still handy in a lot of cases.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at the spread image, it appears the only card in the set we don't know is the second B-wing Pilot. Probably could have just included that in this release...

For the A-wing, TIE Advanced, and TIE Defender, I can see why the Proton Rockets are the go to missile. But for the Bomber, Z-95, Firespray, Falcon, and Outrider, I'm not seeing it quite so much as the only choice. It is still useful, sure. 4 Atk at Range 3, with no bonus defensive die, is still handy in a lot of cases.

For the Bomber, it's more so it can have many attacks with a lot of dice.

A Scimitar with 2 Flechette and 2 Proton Rockets cost 26pts. It now has 2 range 2-3 attack at 3 dice that give stress and 2 range 1 attack at 4 dice that you keep your focus. It is now a real threat.

Cheap ordnance is what ships with lot of slots was waiting for to be very effective. With Flechette torpedo now out and Ion missiles and Proton Rockets coming, I can see a lot more Bombers getting used.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at the spread image, it appears the only card in the set we don't know is the second B-wing Pilot. Probably could have just included that in this release...

We won't get that infor until gencon if the wave 4 pattern of leaving one thing secret plays out in the aces.

I'd much rather see missile enhancements like Jonus and Failsafe, that work to make the missiles we have more viable. Instead we get a missile that's pretty much the equivalent of the few good missiles we have, at half the cost. Proton Rockets basically invalidate every missile we've already got. It's dumb, lazy design, just like the Chardaan refit. Getting less and less impressed with the Rebel Aces design.

Then propose your alternate fix, with the restriction that it isn't just a straight-up errata to lower costs across the board. I think it's clever design given the limited design variables there are.

Nah, we will get the second B-wing pilot when they do the B-wing article next month.

While Proton Rockets are nice, Jonus enhance Cluster Missiles are really, really fun against 1 Agi ships. Also, Assault Missiles are still very handy for spreading damage around. I just don't see Proton Rockets out right replacing the missiles we do have on Bombers.

Agility-based damage and range 1 limitation pretty much scream A-wing only (or at least something with engine upgrade), so maybe Vader since he often takes that upgrade already. Sure you can get plenty of ships into range 1 sometimes, but boosting is the most reliable way to do it, and the A-wing is the only ship that can boost and take a missile naturally.

So basically the rocket is 5 points on the A-wing if you consider the opportunity cost of losing the refit, and 7 points on any other ship if you include engine upgrade. It is also completely unusable in the traditional range 3 alpha strike, except maybe by Rhymer who can try to get a range 2 attack but only gains +2 attack with his lower agility ship (unless you add stealth device and then you are raising the cost again)

Best missile for the A-wing? Probably (excluding refit), but it hardly invalidates all other missiles and torpedoes, which hardly anyone uses anyway as it is.

Hello,

The cards are available in the Fab's Squadrons generator.

I updated the Rebel Aces expansion and the YT-2400 with the Proton Rockets.

http://fabpsb.free.fr/gindex.php

bye

Agility-based damage and range 1 limitation pretty much scream A-wing only (or at least something with engine upgrade), so maybe Vader since he often takes that upgrade already. Sure you can get plenty of ships into range 1 sometimes, but boosting is the most reliable way to do it, and the A-wing is the only ship that can boost and take a missile naturally.

So basically the rocket is 5 points on the A-wing if you consider the opportunity cost of losing the refit, and 7 points on any other ship if you include engine upgrade. It is also completely unusable in the traditional range 3 alpha strike, except maybe by Rhymer who can try to get a range 2 attack but only gains +2 attack with his lower agility ship (unless you add stealth device and then you are raising the cost again)

Best missile for the A-wing? Probably (excluding refit), but it hardly invalidates all other missiles and torpedoes, which hardly anyone uses anyway as it is.

That's both blessing and curse. They'd have to take Push to be able to Boost and focus in the same turn.

Proton Rockets for the win! only cost 3? wow man that is tight.

Seems balanced as far as gameplay, but makes advanced protons seem way overcosted by comparison.

APTs have a very high chance of five hits. Proton Rockets also require an A-wing, TIE defender or TIE advanced (the three ships most often accused of being overpriced) for full awesome, stick them on a TIE bomber, Firespray or Z-95 and you reduce their viability to a level in line with other rockets.

APTs are pretty clearly a better buy on anything with 1-2 Agility, and they're not all that popular.

Not sure how Proton Rockets aren't instantly the best missile in the game. Even on a Headhunter it's basically a Range 1 Homing Missile for two points less. On an A-wing or Advanced it's very close to an APT, for half the price and without the need for bonus action tricks. The only limitation is range, and IMHO it's easier to get Range 1 shots than Range 2-3.

Dumb.

I think you're really underestimating how hard it is to get to Range 1 against a ship that doesn't want to be caught there--unless you have boost. And the number of ships with 3 Agility, boost, and a missile slot…?

It's tailored to fit the A-wing (with a little Advanced on the side), and for everybody else it has a fairly punitive range requirement in exchange for relaxed targeting requirements. How is it dumb or lazy design?

For me, dumb design would have been (e.g.) reprinting Homing Missiles at 3 points with an "A-wing only" restriction. This is much, much more interesting to me.

Agility-based damage and range 1 limitation pretty much scream A-wing only (or at least something with engine upgrade), so maybe Vader since he often takes that upgrade already. Sure you can get plenty of ships into range 1 sometimes, but boosting is the most reliable way to do it, and the A-wing is the only ship that can boost and take a missile naturally.

So basically the rocket is 5 points on the A-wing if you consider the opportunity cost of losing the refit, and 7 points on any other ship if you include engine upgrade. It is also completely unusable in the traditional range 3 alpha strike, except maybe by Rhymer who can try to get a range 2 attack but only gains +2 attack with his lower agility ship (unless you add stealth device and then you are raising the cost again)

Best missile for the A-wing? Probably (excluding refit), but it hardly invalidates all other missiles and torpedoes, which hardly anyone uses anyway as it is.

Boost is surprisinly innefective with Proton Rockets because they need a focus to fire them.

That's both blessing and curse. They'd have to take Push to be able to Boost and focus in the same turn.

Or, just be Jake:

Agility-based damage and range 1 limitation pretty much scream A-wing only (or at least something with engine upgrade), so maybe Vader since he often takes that upgrade already. Sure you can get plenty of ships into range 1 sometimes, but boosting is the most reliable way to do it, and the A-wing is the only ship that can boost and take a missile naturally.

So basically the rocket is 5 points on the A-wing if you consider the opportunity cost of losing the refit, and 7 points on any other ship if you include engine upgrade. It is also completely unusable in the traditional range 3 alpha strike, except maybe by Rhymer who can try to get a range 2 attack but only gains +2 attack with his lower agility ship (unless you add stealth device and then you are raising the cost again)

Best missile for the A-wing? Probably (excluding refit), but it hardly invalidates all other missiles and torpedoes, which hardly anyone uses anyway as it is.

Boost is surprisinly innefective with Proton Rockets because they need a focus to fire them.

That's both blessing and curse. They'd have to take Push to be able to Boost and focus in the same turn.

Or, just be Jake:

But it's interesting that he shows up in the same pack with Proton Rockets, which require a Focus token, and Range 1. So he can be a prime user of these missiles.

Proton Rockets for the win! only cost 3? wow man that is tight.

Seems balanced as far as gameplay, but makes advanced protons seem way overcosted by comparison.

APTs have a very high chance of five hits. Proton Rockets also require an A-wing, TIE defender or TIE advanced (the three ships most often accused of being overpriced) for full awesome, stick them on a TIE bomber, Firespray or Z-95 and you reduce their viability to a level in line with other rockets.

APTs are pretty clearly a better buy on anything with 1-2 Agility, and they're not all that popular.

Not sure how Proton Rockets aren't instantly the best missile in the game. Even on a Headhunter it's basically a Range 1 Homing Missile for two points less. On an A-wing or Advanced it's very close to an APT, for half the price and without the need for bonus action tricks. The only limitation is range, and IMHO it's easier to get Range 1 shots than Range 2-3.

Dumb.

I think you're really underestimating how hard it is to get to Range 1 against a ship that doesn't want to be caught there--unless you have boost. And the number of ships with 3 Agility, boost, and a missile slot…?

It's tailored to fit the A-wing (with a little Advanced on the side), and for everybody else it has a fairly punitive range requirement in exchange for relaxed targeting requirements. How is it dumb or lazy design?

For me, dumb design would have been (e.g.) reprinting Homing Missiles at 3 points with an "A-wing only" restriction. This is much, much more interesting to me.

Just to add, every ship that it is most effective on has some kind of opportunity cost. With the A-wing, you are giving up a -2 point Chaardan Refit. The Defender is another ship it can work on but is an expensive ship. The Advanced also has some use (and it looks like a very nice choice for Vader), but with the advanced already being overcosted you're adding an effective one-shot to a currently ineffective ship.

Beyond those ships, it's not really a good choice, imo (and certainly doens't invalidate other missile choices), if you are loading missiles since most other missiles have better utility and damage potential for most ships.

Ha! I knew I couldn't be the only person excited about Jake Farrell! PTL & Proton Rockets might make him a little pricey @ 30 pts (my first thought was PTL & Refit, 25pts), but 3 actions! 3! Actions! (almost) every round!

I'd much rather see missile enhancements like Jonus and Failsafe, that work to make the missiles we have more viable. Instead we get a missile that's pretty much the equivalent of the few good missiles we have, at half the cost. Proton Rockets basically invalidate every missile we've already got. It's dumb, lazy design, just like the Chardaan refit. Getting less and less impressed with the Rebel Aces design.

Then propose your alternate fix, with the restriction that it isn't just a straight-up errata to lower costs across the board. I think it's clever design given the limited design variables there are.

There are any number of relatively simple enhancements:

EPT: When attacking with a Secondary Weapon that requires you to spend your target lock, gain a Focus token.

Mod: When you discard a Secondary Weapon in order to perform an attack, discard this card instead.

And so forth. Anything along those lines, as cheap or even free mods/EPTs, could enhance the capability of missiles

I think you're really underestimating how hard it is to get to Range 1 against a ship that doesn't want to be caught there--unless you have boost. And the number of ships with 3 Agility, boost, and a missile slot…?

IMHO it's far easier to get to Range 1 than it is to stop an opponent from getting to Range 1. I've tried Bomber-heavy builds, and their major weakness against most of the missiles is any TIE that jumps on you, and makes those missiles useless.

Proton Rockets for the win! only cost 3? wow man that is tight.

Seems balanced as far as gameplay, but makes advanced protons seem way overcosted by comparison.

APTs have a very high chance of five hits. Proton Rockets also require an A-wing, TIE defender or TIE advanced (the three ships most often accused of being overpriced) for full awesome, stick them on a TIE bomber, Firespray or Z-95 and you reduce their viability to a level in line with other rockets.

APTs are pretty clearly a better buy on anything with 1-2 Agility, and they're not all that popular.

Not sure how Proton Rockets aren't instantly the best missile in the game. Even on a Headhunter it's basically a Range 1 Homing Missile for two points less. On an A-wing or Advanced it's very close to an APT, for half the price and without the need for bonus action tricks. The only limitation is range, and IMHO it's easier to get Range 1 shots than Range 2-3.

Dumb.

I think you're really underestimating how hard it is to get to Range 1 against a ship that doesn't want to be caught there--unless you have boost. And the number of ships with 3 Agility, boost, and a missile slot…?

It's tailored to fit the A-wing (with a little Advanced on the side), and for everybody else it has a fairly punitive range requirement in exchange for relaxed targeting requirements. How is it dumb or lazy design?

For me, dumb design would have been (e.g.) reprinting Homing Missiles at 3 points with an "A-wing only" restriction. This is much, much more interesting to me.

Just to add, every ship that it is most effective on has some kind of opportunity cost. With the A-wing, you are giving up a -2 point Chaardan Refit. The Defender is another ship it can work on but is an expensive ship. The Advanced also has some use (and it looks like a very nice choice for Vader), but with the advanced already being overcosted you're adding an effective one-shot to a currently ineffective ship.

Beyond those ships, it's not really a good choice, imo (and certainly doens't invalidate other missile choices), if you are loading missiles since most other missiles have better utility and damage potential for most ships.

On lower-PS pilots, Chaardon remains the superior option.

I'd much rather see missile enhancements like Jonus and Failsafe, that work to make the missiles we have more viable. Instead we get a missile that's pretty much the equivalent of the few good missiles we have, at half the cost. Proton Rockets basically invalidate every missile we've already got. It's dumb, lazy design, just like the Chardaan refit. Getting less and less impressed with the Rebel Aces design.

Then propose your alternate fix, with the restriction that it isn't just a straight-up errata to lower costs across the board. I think it's clever design given the limited design variables there are.

There are any number of relatively simple enhancements:

EPT: When attacking with a Secondary Weapon that requires you to spend your target lock, gain a Focus token.

Mod: When you discard a Secondary Weapon in order to perform an attack, discard this card instead.

And so forth. Anything along those lines, as cheap or even free mods/EPTs, could enhance the capability of missiles

Those aren't bad ideas, but the potential problem is their scope. An EPT is limited to ships that can take it (High PS ships or A-wings with the Test Pilot card -- unless that's also a "dumb" upgrade you want to chuck out.). The Mod you suggest could be taken by any ship (unless you meant A-wing only) and might have the potential for abuse by other ship types.

Like I said, these ideas aren't bad, but they don't seem intrinsically better than what FFG has come up with. You just don't like them, but your insistence that they invalidate previous missiles is hyperbole. As Vorpal pointed out, the Range difference requires a different playstyle. Also, nothing about Proton Rockets is comparable to the area of effect that Assault missiles achieves.

I'd much rather see missile enhancements like Jonus and Failsafe, that work to make the missiles we have more viable. Instead we get a missile that's pretty much the equivalent of the few good missiles we have, at half the cost. Proton Rockets basically invalidate every missile we've already got. It's dumb, lazy design, just like the Chardaan refit. Getting less and less impressed with the Rebel Aces design.

Then propose your alternate fix, with the restriction that it isn't just a straight-up errata to lower costs across the board. I think it's clever design given the limited design variables there are.

There are any number of relatively simple enhancements:

EPT: When attacking with a Secondary Weapon that requires you to spend your target lock, gain a Focus token.

Mod: When you discard a Secondary Weapon in order to perform an attack, discard this card instead.

And so forth. Anything along those lines, as cheap or even free mods/EPTs, could enhance the capability of missiles

Those aren't bad ideas, but the potential problem is their scope. An EPT is limited to ships that can take it (High PS ships or A-wings with the Test Pilot card -- unless that's also a "dumb" upgrade you want to chuck out.). The Mod you suggest could be taken by any ship (unless you meant A-wing only) and might have the potential for abuse by other ship types.

Like I said, these ideas aren't bad, but they don't seem intrinsically better than what FFG has come up with. You just don't like them, but your insistence that they invalidate previous missiles is hyperbole. As Vorpal pointed out, the Range difference requires a different playstyle. Also, nothing about Proton Rockets is comparable to the area of effect that Assault missiles achieves.

I like the Idea of a mod like that (I think I posted something like that somewhere awhile ago) that said Proton Rockets are still nice to help out the Advanced (shame you can't take 4 Storms with Proton Rockets)

So I'm guessing the Proton Rockets play nice with Dark Curse? You're not actually spending the Focus token, and you're not re-rolling, so DC's ability shouldn't hinder you from shoving one of these at him, right?