So I've witnessed a few matches where the phantom just murders or sometimes is destroyed quickly so I do see a balance in the game. I wanted to start a thread of viable squads that can handle highly maneuverable ships but can still have somewhat of a chance against other builds. One I'd like to try is:

chewies got the phantom blues

chewie+marksmanship+gunner+ml title

bsp+fcs

bsp+fcs

99 points

Most decent lists can Handle a Phantom. You don't need to build a counter Phantom list, just have a plan built in for when Phantoms come to town.

This can be something as specialized as Roark, Han with vet Instincts, or Rebel Captive. It can be something as generic as, Split my force so that my opponent can't flank with the Phantom. 4 Dice isn't invincible, and engaging the thing at range will do wonders. That said, typically you'll want a high PS pilot capable of shooting before the Phantom for now, but all things considered, their a bit like engaging Turr Phennir. Trap them. And take multiple ships.

Most decent lists can Handle a Phantom. You don't need to build a counter Phantom list, just have a plan built in for when Phantoms come to town.This can be something as specialized as Roark, Han with vet Instincts, or Rebel Captive. It can be something as generic as, Split my force so that my opponent can't flank with the Phantom. 4 Dice isn't invincible, and engaging the thing at range will do wonders. That said, typically you'll want a high PS pilot capable of shooting before the Phantom for now, but all things considered, their a bit like engaging Turr Phennir. Trap them. And take multiple ships.

I like how you say you don't need to build a counter Phantom list and then start listing counters to Phantoms.

Turrets are always useful.

Heavy Laser Cannons are always useful.

Pilot Skill, while overcosted is useful.

Etc.

Most decent lists can Handle a Phantom. You don't need to build a counter Phantom list, just have a plan built in for when Phantoms come to town.

This can be something as specialized as Roark, Han with vet Instincts, or Rebel Captive. It can be something as generic as, Split my force so that my opponent can't flank with the Phantom. 4 Dice isn't invincible, and engaging the thing at range will do wonders. That said, typically you'll want a high PS pilot capable of shooting before the Phantom for now, but all things considered, their a bit like engaging Turr Phennir. Trap them. And take multiple ships.

This is good advice: fire at range, split forces, higher pilot skill, and trapping

might try a 4-6 ship squad

maybe OSR blocker with a mini swarm

thanks!

Most decent lists can Handle a Phantom. You don't need to build a counter Phantom list, just have a plan built in for when Phantoms come to town.

This can be something as specialized as Roark, Han with vet Instincts, or Rebel Captive. It can be something as generic as, Split my force so that my opponent can't flank with the Phantom. 4 Dice isn't invincible, and engaging the thing at range will do wonders. That said, typically you'll want a high PS pilot capable of shooting before the Phantom for now, but all things considered, their a bit like engaging Turr Phennir. Trap them. And take multiple ships.

I like how you say you don't need to build a counter Phantom list and then start listing counters to Phantoms.

I saw this as good advice for ships designed to dodge arcs: interceptors and phantoms

Most decent lists can Handle a Phantom. You don't need to build a counter Phantom list, just have a plan built in for when Phantoms come to town.

This can be something as specialized as Roark, Han with vet Instincts, or Rebel Captive. It can be something as generic as, Split my force so that my opponent can't flank with the Phantom. 4 Dice isn't invincible, and engaging the thing at range will do wonders. That said, typically you'll want a high PS pilot capable of shooting before the Phantom for now, but all things considered, their a bit like engaging Turr Phennir. Trap them. And take multiple ships.

Han with Rebel Captive can be hard to play

Rebel Captive is Imperial Only.

Unless it's actually Lando with Han Captive...but we all know that ends with the Imperials winning anyway.

Rebel Captive is Imperial Only.

I'm willing to stake my entire collection that Aminar knows that. .

Specialized sticks to beat Phantoms with he forgot to mention: bombs.

Rebel Captive is Imperial Only.

I'm willing to stake my entire collection that Aminar knows that. .

Specialized sticks to beat Phantoms with he forgot to mention: bombs.

It's going to be hard to pin a Phantom with a bomb. Most Phantoms fly high PS and bombs only explode at the end of the activation phase. Any Phantom caught inside that radius at the end of the activation phase would have to be literally flying into it.

Rebel Captive is Imperial Only.

I'm willing to stake my entire collection that Aminar knows that. .

Specialized sticks to beat Phantoms with he forgot to mention: bombs.

It's going to be hard to pin a Phantom with a bomb. Most Phantoms fly high PS and bombs only explode at the end of the activation phase. Any Phantom caught inside that radius at the end of the activation phase would have to be literally flying into it.

Gotta love proximity mines, they stick around until somebody barrel rolls over them.

Rebel Captive is Imperial Only.

Unless it's actually Lando with Han Captive...but we all know that ends with the Imperials winning anyway.

He meant Han with the "landos wearing my clothes "upgrade its causes you to stress you self once each turn.

The Comma placement clearly makes it a list... Rebel Captive just protects a ship from Phantoms most of the time.

Anyway, if your entire strategy is winning you have no need for discussion because you are clearly better than everyone you play against.

There are many build/upgrades currently that are perfectly capable of bringing down a Phantom, while being effective against standard builds as well. You do not have to build a rock/papper/scissors counter list in order to turn a Phantom list into space debris.

Improvise, overcome, and adapt your strategy when your opponent places a Phantom across from you. Pretty sound advice there in general if you ask me.

Placing the Phantom on the table, an automatic win it does not make.

To say otherwise is pretty arrogant.

Speaking of arrogant...

There's a difference between a counter list, and having a counter.

In my book, there is a difference between winning and losing. If you want to call your winning list a counter or to say you had a a counter to the list you defeated, fine.

My counter to any list is I win. That's how I build a counter list.

I Win? Seriously, your strategy when you play XWMG is "I Win?"

Well whenever I a seen my opponent split his force and go after my phantom with one have and my main with the other, I'd almost smile.

As now I can focus fire more heavily on his ships than he can of mine.

It usually never ended to well for them

Well whenever I a seen my opponent split his force and go after my phantom with one have and my main with the other, I'd almost smile.

As now I can focus fire more heavily on his ships than he can of mine.

It usually never ended to well for them

In addition you've split your force 35 65 already. Having a similar ratio means splitting doesn't kill focus fire nearly as much.

There are plenty of tools out there that enable you to build a list that will work vs the vaunted Phantom and other lists as well. The first 3 waves and huge ships gave us all the tools needed. (I mean cards, not flying the huge ships)

High PS, turrets, stress inducing traits etc.

The Phantom is the new "omg it can't be beaten" ship and will be so for about as long as every other "omg it can't be beaten" ship from the first 3 waves was.....

Well whenever I a seen my opponent split his force and go after my phantom with one have and my main with the other, I'd almost smile.

As now I can focus fire more heavily on his ships than he can of mine.

It usually never ended to well for them

Depends how the ship split works. If I'm three ships bases apart I can still focus fire and your Phantom will have a hard time approaching or flanking.

In addition you've split your force 35 65 already. Having a similar ratio means splitting doesn't kill focus fire nearly as much.

I've seen it and it didn't work well for my opponent.

Imo split forces didn't seem to be the best interest

interest I still make sure I'm focus firing with my ships even the ones who are trying to go after the Phantom.

They now become priority

Didn't work to well for wedge with swarm tactics and Howlrunner with swarm tactics, just to name a couple

Well whenever I a seen my opponent split his force and go after my phantom with one have and my main with the other, I'd almost smile.

As now I can focus fire more heavily on his ships than he can of mine.

It usually never ended to well for them

Depends how the ship split works. If I'm three ships bases apart I can still focus fire and your Phantom will have a hard time approaching or flanking.

In addition you've split your force 35 65 already. Having a similar ratio means splitting doesn't kill focus fire nearly as much.

Just saying.

I've seen it and it didn't work well for my opponent.

Imo split forces didn't seem to be the best interest

Then they split wrong. I frequently run two groupings. You have to slowroll in, keep on with their aide or back to a wall, and play smart, but so long as you converge together, it works great.

I like thinking of this type of "formation" as the Hammer and Anvil.

How do you know they played it wrong?

We're you there watching the game?

I think they played it well.

My opponents are pretty smart at these type of tacticle games. They don't just fly in head first.

Also if you play your Phantom smart you can see it coming a mile away and can prepare for it

I can easily suggest that your opponent played his wrong.

But I wasnt there watching so I don't speculate.

I just know I've seen people try to do this to me a few times and I was ready for it.

So imo splitting forces is not always the best decision

My opponents are getting use to the Phantom because it's what I've been using 2 out of 3 games.

The way they beat it now is they are really understanding is movements as well as I do.

After awhile you can figure out where is going to be.

How do you know they played it wrong?

We're you there watching the game?

I think they played it well.

My opponents are pretty smart at these type of tacticle games. They don't just fly in head first.

Also if you play your Phantom smart you can see it coming a mile away and can prepare for it

I can easily suggest that your opponent played his wrong.

But I wasnt there watching so I don't speculate.

I just know I've seen people try to do this to me a few times and I was ready for it.

So imo splitting forces is not always the best decision

Fair enough.

Any suggestions on how to handle the "Phantom Situation" than?

How do you know they played it wrong?

We're you there watching the game?

I think they played it well.

My opponents are pretty smart at these type of tacticle games. They don't just fly in head first.

Also if you play your Phantom smart you can see it coming a mile away and can prepare for it

I can easily suggest that your opponent played his wrong.

But I wasnt there watching so I don't speculate.

I just know I've seen people try to do this to me a few times and I was ready for it.

So imo splitting forces is not always the best decision

My opponents are getting use to the Phantom because it's what I've been using 2 out of 3 games.

The way they beat it now is they are really understanding is movements as well as I do.

After awhile you can figure out where is going to be.

That said, sticking to a wall is one of the best ways to kill Phantoms. The longer you hold your flanks protected the better. Force them to come at you in a way you can exploit. Phantoms move fast though.

Just learn how it moves is my honest opinion.

I guess it's not fair for me to say not to split your force, but In cases I've seen this can weaken your force.

The way I've lost lately is my opponent knew where I was going to decloak.

He knew the general location I was going to go and managed to line up the shots.

Imo the Phantom is not much different than any other ship. Plus it's very fragile. Even at four dice.

I had 5 dice and a focus and rolled four blanks and one Focus the other day. One shot, shields were down.

Flying against turrets and ions is a pain. They are not your beat all Phantoms lists, but it does hinder them. Especially being ioned. If you ion one just make sure your really line up that next shot or he 's gone

I've been ioned twice some games and the **** thing still lived lol.

He just didn't have the fire power to follow up the ion shot.

How do you know they played it wrong?

We're you there watching the game?

I think they played it well.

My opponents are pretty smart at these type of tacticle games. They don't just fly in head first.

Also if you play your Phantom smart you can see it coming a mile away and can prepare for it

I can easily suggest that your opponent played his wrong.

But I wasnt there watching so I don't speculate.

I just know I've seen people try to do this to me a few times and I was ready for it.

So imo splitting forces is not always the best decision

My opponents are getting use to the Phantom because it's what I've been using 2 out of 3 games.

The way they beat it now is they are really understanding is movements as well as I do.

After awhile you can figure out where is going to be.

If a viable strategy didn't work out well it was played wrong or the dice doomed it. Neither of which harm the strategy itself.

That said, sticking to a wall is one of the best ways to kill Phantoms. The longer you hold your flanks protected the better. Force them to come at you in a way you can exploit. Phantoms move fast though.

If one fails more so than the other it doesn't mean it was played wrong at all. How can yout say that. I have to ask are yout able to watch in some way I should maybe be concerned about.

Maybe it just wasn't the best strategy for the current situation, or maybe the other player strategy was better.

Again it doesn't have to mean a player played bad or wrong.

All I can ask is how would you know since you're not there. If I know my opponents play then maybe my strategy is ahead of his. Nothing about playing wrong.

I can say the exact same thing about your opponents. I don't because I wasn't there.

Maybe if I watched that game id be shaking my head wondering "why did he move his Phantom there "

Edit:

I do find it funny that even though I've seen it done in more than one occasion and not succeed.

So imo not always the best choice.

But you just say "nope, you're opponents play bad because this strategy works because I say so "

Sounds pretty arrogant imo

So my opponent is a bad player and maybe not your Phantom opponent?

I never accused your opponent to be a bad player because it works for you btw. I just saying it's got as much of a chance of working as any other strategy,depending how is played

How do you know they played it wrong?

We're you there watching the game?

I think they played it well.

My opponents are pretty smart at these type of tacticle games. They don't just fly in head first.

Also if you play your Phantom smart you can see it coming a mile away and can prepare for it

I can easily suggest that your opponent played his wrong.

But I wasnt there watching so I don't speculate.

I just know I've seen people try to do this to me a few times and I was ready for it.

So imo splitting forces is not always the best decision

My opponents are getting use to the Phantom because it's what I've been using 2 out of 3 games.

The way they beat it now is they are really understanding is movements as well as I do.

After awhile you can figure out where is going to be.

If a viable strategy didn't work out well it was played wrong or the dice doomed it. Neither of which harm the strategy itself.

That said, sticking to a wall is one of the best ways to kill Phantoms. The longer you hold your flanks protected the better. Force them to come at you in a way you can exploit. Phantoms move fast though.

Well both players have their own strategy.

If one fails more so than the other it doesn't mean it was played wrong at all. How can yout say that. I have to ask are yout able to watch in some way I should maybe be concerned about.

Maybe it just wasn't the best strategy for the current situation, or maybe the other player strategy was better.

Again it doesn't have to mean a player played bad or wrong.

All I can ask is how would you know since you're not there. If I know my opponents play then maybe my strategy is ahead of his. Nothing about playing wrong.

I can say the exact same thing about your opponents. I don't because I wasn't there.

Maybe if I watched that game id be shaking my head wondering "why did he move his Phantom there "

Edit:

I do find it funny that even though I've seen it done in more than one occasion and not succeed.

So imo not always the best choice.

But you just say "nope, you're opponents play bad because this strategy works because I say so "

Sounds pretty arrogant imo

So my opponent is a bad player and maybe not your Phantom opponent?

I never accused your opponent to be a bad player because it works for you btw. I just saying it's got as much of a chance of working as any other strategy,depending how is played

Both ships are fragile, but if the Interceptor dies forcing the Phantom out of position long enough for my 70ish points to beat your 60ish points I've probably got enough ships left to corral and hunt down your Phantom if I play it smart.

Same with sending 2 Xs at the Phantom.

2 b-Wings can take on most of what remains of a list with a capable troublesome Phantom.(That meaning Whisper or Echo with Advanced Cloak and Vet instincts for the most part, as they are the only truly problematic Phantoms assuming you pack anything with high Pilot Skill.

Meanwhile the 2 Xs should be able to take down the Phantom, losing one of their number in the process.

The Two b-Wings stall and kill what they can, and then the remaining X-Wing returns.

IF you're running a Phantom you are splitting a big chunk of your force off.

If that's a PS 3-5 Phantom with Advanced Sensors it's dangerous but drops fast.

If it's Whisper or Echo you have to kill it fast or it eats your list alive(unless you're running something very good at killing Phantoms.

Even so, when I said split your force I meant spread your firing arcs wider, not have your forces on opposite edges of the map.

It is far from impossible to catch a Phantom in a firing arc.