I would try this formation in the future at 100 points.

Howlrunner: Swarm Tactics+Stealth Device

Mauler Mithel: Expert Handling+Stealth Device

Backstabber: Stealth Device

Academy Pilot x 3

This uses all 6 of your models and gives you options. You can set up your mini swarm in the middle with Backstabber and Mauler on each flank. Or you can set up the swarm in the middle and put both Mauler and Backstabber on one flank to really bring some pain. The trick is to slow-roll the swarm right at the enemy while your flanks get them in the side/rear. The Stealth device gives your named pilots exceptional staying power and if your opponent splits his forces, he is toast as the mini swarm should be able to take out a ship in one jousting pass while the other ships try t catch your highly maneuverable TIEs. If he focuses on the swarm, Mauler and backstabber should be able to light up a ship like a Christmas tree. The Academy Pilots will do what they do best, die a glorious, fiery death.

BTW: I love how maneuverable Mauler is with that setup. You can barrel-roll out of arcs at range 1 for some real damage against low agility ships like X's and B's (and Y's without turrets, but why would you take a Y without a turret?).

That sounds very snazzy indeed.

Ben has put an ion on his Y every time he's used it so I expect it to stay. That, and it soaking up some shots, is all it's been good for!

SDCC, since you're playing casually, does it matter if you have all of the upgrade cards or not? I see people recommending Stealth Devices but seeing as you don't have Slave 1, I don't think you have the cards.

But you can barrel roll and focus in the same turn. He become really hard to pin down.

No he can't. Expert handling doesn't give him an extra action. It takes his action to use it. If you gave him Push the Limit he could. Night beast can do what you're mentioning. But Expert Handling only lets him ditch target locks when he barrel rolls.

But you can barrel roll and focus in the same turn. He become really hard to pin down.

No he can't. Expert handling doesn't give him an extra action. It takes his action to use it. If you gave him Push the Limit he could. Night beast can do what you're mentioning. But Expert Handling only lets him ditch target locks when he barrel rolls.

Yes you can. It is a free barrel roll action. Then you can focus all while ditching target lock.

SDCC, since you're playing casually, does it matter if you have all of the upgrade cards or not? I see people recommending Stealth Devices but seeing as you don't have Slave 1, I don't think you have the cards.

Good spot.

I have one proxy at the moment, for Hull Upgrade. Between us we've agreed proxies are OK. Ben just hasn't needed any yet.

Slave 1 is a couple of months away for my wallet!

But you can barrel roll and focus in the same turn. He become really hard to pin down.

No he can't. Expert handling doesn't give him an extra action. It takes his action to use it. If you gave him Push the Limit he could. Night beast can do what you're mentioning. But Expert Handling only lets him ditch target locks when he barrel rolls.

Yes you can. It is a free barrel roll action. Then you can focus all while ditching target lock.

As Aminar says, it costs you an action, to get the free barrel roll action from Expert Handling.

For clarity, check the Errata'd card in the FAQ.

Howlrunner (23)

TIE Fighter (18), Swarm Tactics (2), Hull Upgrade (3)

Mauler Mithel (18)

TIE Fighter (17), Determination (1)

Dark Curse (16), Backstabber (16), Night Beast (15), Academy Pilot (12)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wedge Antilles (33)

X-Wing (29), R2-D2 (4)

"Dutch" Vander (28)

Y-Wing (23), Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Tycho Celchu (33)

A-Wing (26), Cluster Missiles (4), Push the Limit (3)

For what it's worth, he won the PS bid. You bid your ships at PS5 - PS8 and he just slightly outbid you. In this specific instance you would have been better off getting a 7th ship, by mixing in Academy Pilots instead. But PS bid war is jst the nature of the game, you should certainly still be able to win.

Try and setup asteroids on your side to keep the other side clear and use your speed to get through so you can dog fight in an open area.

I'd use evade instead of focus. Less relying on chance and going for a sure thing. Keeps you alive and throwing attack dice for more rounds.

Concentrate on taking out one ship at a time.

With only 2 attack dice I was looking at focus as a way to make that stronger whilst keeping my options open. But evades would maybe have kept me in the game for longer and therefore I could have rolled more times. So more attack overall?

Definitely something to consider.

Sorry to give contradictory advice, but mass evade is a fairly bad idea for swarms. From the perspective of an individual ship, evade increases your expected lifespan but decreases your expected damage* relative to focus. From the perspective of the swarm's commander, though, your opponent is likely going to concentrate fire on a single ship--and if all of your ships evade, that means every ship your opponent doesn't attack has entirely wasted its action.

TL;DR: when in any doubt whatsoever, focus.

(*Even this part is actually debatable, but I'll set that aside for the sake of focusing (heh) on the action-economy issue outlined above.)

This x1000. Do NOT take mass evade actions with a swarm. Ever.

Some general comments:

• Always always always remember to use Howlrunner's reroll for your ships when it helps. You're probably already doing this but its worth mentioning anyway.
• Focus down the enemy glass cannons first. In this case that clearly means Wedge first.
• It helps when most of your ships are the same PS for moving, since you can choose what order they move in, within the same PS. Consider replacing the two PS5 TIEs with Black Squadron Pilot + Veteran Instincts so 4 out of 6 ships move and shoot at PS6.
• If you have 7 TIEs, also consider using Howlrunner + 6 other TIEs. The 7th TIE can make a difference. Howlrunner + 6 Academy Pilots is 90 points, so that leaves you 10 points for upgrades / pilots.

As Aminar says, it costs you an action, to get the free barrel roll action from Expert Handling.

For clarity, check the Errata'd card in the FAQ.

Always read to me that you this this action to get yourself an action you wouldn't otherwise have. Which is why you then have to pay for it.

SDCC - Reading some of the comment you make suggests it my just be a learning curve thing.

Amusingly enough, my wife is a better pilot than I am. She just gets the spacial stuff better than I do, and as such will often outfly me. Fortunately she's terrible at list building, so it evens things out.

But this game has a decent learning curve, and your buddy may have started at a different place on the curve then you. I would encourage setting up some asteroids in your spare time, and flying a pack of TIEs around them and seeing how you do.

I used to do my variation of a Kessel run and see if I could weave in and out of 6 asteroids in the fewest moves possible. It was a good challenge that greatly helped my piloting.

Howlrunner (23)

TIE Fighter (18), Swarm Tactics (2), Hull Upgrade (3)

Mauler Mithel (18)

TIE Fighter (17), Determination (1)

Dark Curse (16), Backstabber (16), Night Beast (15), Academy Pilot (12)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wedge Antilles (33)

X-Wing (29), R2-D2 (4)

"Dutch" Vander (28)

Y-Wing (23), Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Tycho Celchu (33)

A-Wing (26), Cluster Missiles (4), Push the Limit (3)

For what it's worth, he won the PS bid. You bid your ships at PS5 - PS8 and he just slightly outbid you. In this specific instance you would have been better off getting a 7th ship, by mixing in Academy Pilots instead. But PS bid war is jst the nature of the game, you should certainly still be able to win.

Try and setup asteroids on your side to keep the other side clear and use your speed to get through so you can dog fight in an open area.

I'd use evade instead of focus. Less relying on chance and going for a sure thing. Keeps you alive and throwing attack dice for more rounds.

Concentrate on taking out one ship at a time.

With only 2 attack dice I was looking at focus as a way to make that stronger whilst keeping my options open. But evades would maybe have kept me in the game for longer and therefore I could have rolled more times. So more attack overall?

Definitely something to consider.

Sorry to give contradictory advice, but mass evade is a fairly bad idea for swarms. From the perspective of an individual ship, evade increases your expected lifespan but decreases your expected damage* relative to focus. From the perspective of the swarm's commander, though, your opponent is likely going to concentrate fire on a single ship--and if all of your ships evade, that means every ship your opponent doesn't attack has entirely wasted its action.

TL;DR: when in any doubt whatsoever, focus.

(*Even this part is actually debatable, but I'll set that aside for the sake of focusing (heh) on the action-economy issue outlined above.)

This x1000. Do NOT take mass evade actions with a swarm. Ever.

Some general comments:

• Always always always remember to use Howlrunner's reroll for your ships when it helps. You're probably already doing this but its worth mentioning anyway.
• Focus down the enemy glass cannons first. In this case that clearly means Wedge first.
• It helps when most of your ships are the same PS for moving, since you can choose what order they move in, within the same PS. Consider replacing the two PS5 TIEs with Black Squadron Pilot + Veteran Instincts so 4 out of 6 ships move and shoot at PS6.
• If you have 7 TIEs, also consider using Howlrunner + 6 other TIEs. The 7th TIE can make a difference. Howlrunner + 6 Academy Pilots is 90 points, so that leaves you 10 points for upgrades / pilots.

I didn't think I'd need more than 6 TIEs. But it seems as though 8 is the magic number! My younger brother is getting his own core set tomorrow, and is a rebel....

Sharing PS would make my formation flying much easier, especially as I'm still prone to making silly mistakes!

So many ways I could just with TIEs. What am I going to do with myself when I start using the Squints?

Not to mention I've got Imp Aces on the way, and a Defender. Craziness I tell you!

SDCC - Reading some of the comment you make suggests it my just be a learning curve thing.

Amusingly enough, my wife is a better pilot than I am. She just gets the spacial stuff better than I do, and as such will often outfly me. Fortunately she's terrible at list building, so it evens things out.

But this game has a decent learning curve, and your buddy may have started at a different place on the curve then you. I would encourage setting up some asteroids in your spare time, and flying a pack of TIEs around them and seeing how you do.

I used to do my variation of a Kessel run and see if I could weave in and out of 6 asteroids in the fewest moves possible. It was a good challenge that greatly helped my piloting.

I honestly thought I'd pick it up quicker than I am doing. Judging distance comes well to me. It's the decisions I make that seems to be my undoing.

I've heard others say rebels are easier to get into at first. Maybe, but I'm so competitive I feel I should be getting this quicker. At least I'm learning from the beatings!

I had the TIEs out on a desk at work on Wednesday. Figuring out spacing between them and how they'd move. It was helpful for half hours practice. I'll have to do more of it!

Sharing PS would make my formation flying much easier, especially as I'm still prone to making silly mistakes!

It happens to the best of us. It's not always an issue of player skill either, because you're reacting to what your opponent does. When it really turns into a furball there are many times that you will want to change the ordering of when your ships move so they can all get out of each others' way effectively, and you can keep as many actions as possible.

Sharing PS would make my formation flying much easier, especially as I'm still prone to making silly mistakes!

It happens to the best of us. It's not always an issue of player skill either, because you're reacting to what your opponent does. When it really turns into a furball there are many times that you will want to change the ordering of when your ships move so they can all get out of each others' way effectively, and you can keep as many actions as possible.

I think this is what I needed. Last night I was quite down about it. I know it's a game, but I play every game to win. I don't mind losing to someone who is better than me. That's cool and I'm gracious about it. But I didn't think I was doing myself justice, and that felt like a kick in the nuts.

You guys have helped me dust myself off, and I'll keep it up! I've got plenty of ideas, and things I should do/not do now. It's been awesome and extremely helpful.

To the next game! Which may be against my other brother with his Falcon and X-Wing. That should be interesting.

Why are you taking 6 named ties? grab Howlrunner and 5 other ties. That will give you points to add other things into your list. And intercepter for flanking, or a bomber or something. In this game Quality is not always better than quantity.

And intercepter for flanking, or a bomber or something.

People should really read the whole post and at least part of the thread before posting... If you did you'd see why he doesn't do that.

SDCC - Reading some of the comment you make suggests it my just be a learning curve thing.

Amusingly enough, my wife is a better pilot than I am. She just gets the spacial stuff better than I do, and as such will often outfly me. Fortunately she's terrible at list building, so it evens things out.

But this game has a decent learning curve, and your buddy may have started at a different place on the curve then you. I would encourage setting up some asteroids in your spare time, and flying a pack of TIEs around them and seeing how you do.

I used to do my variation of a Kessel run and see if I could weave in and out of 6 asteroids in the fewest moves possible. It was a good challenge that greatly helped my piloting.

I honestly thought I'd pick it up quicker than I am doing. Judging distance comes well to me. It's the decisions I make that seems to be my undoing.

I've heard others say rebels are easier to get into at first. Maybe, but I'm so competitive I feel I should be getting this quicker. At least I'm learning from the beatings!

I had the TIEs out on a desk at work on Wednesday. Figuring out spacing between them and how they'd move. It was helpful for half hours practice. I'll have to do more of it!

I definitely understand this sentiment. I'm actually pretty good with visual acuity and figured this would be easy to pick up. It took me weeks and many many matches before I felt like I was even a halfway decent pilot.

If you want to stick with 6 TIEs, then you could try something like:

100 points. PS 8, 7, 4x6

Howlrunner + Stealth Device/Hull Upgrade (21)

Mauler Mithel (17)

Backstabber (16)

Dark Curse (16)

2x Black Squadron Pilot + Veteran Instincts (30)

If you get your hands on a 7th TIE, then you can try out an Academy Swarm with a couple of PS6 sprinkled in:

100 points. PS 8, 2x6, 4x1

Howlrunner + Stealth Device/Hull Upgrade (21)

Backstabber/Dark Curse (16)

Black Squadron Pilot + Veteran Instincts (15)

4x Academy Pilot (48)

There are many variants. You can check out the Regionals thread to get some inspiration, but the real trick is figuring out the optimal way to fly them. It can differ slightly by the flavor of the swarm.

Also, asteroid placement matters. As a swarm player you will generally want to place the asteroids in the corners to give yourself room to maneuver all your ships.

Focus fire.

Focus fire.

This is what I had to ram into my head before I got better. 3 wounded ships put out as much damage potential as 3 healthy ships (more or less) and this game is all about maximizing your damage output and minimizing your damage input.

sorry its a long thread and I am at work.

And intercepter for flanking, or a bomber or something.

People should really read the whole post and at least part of the thread before posting... If you did you'd see why he doesn't do that.

We see but it's not working is it and we are offering viable alternatives.

His being stubborn and insisting on only using ties is not to his benefit, we are not trying to be dicks but helpful fellow imperials.

Do you know what the definition of madness is? doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

We see but it's not working is it and we are offering viable alternatives.

That would make sense if the issue was just with his list, like say someone was trying to figure out how to make 6 HWK's without turrets work in a competitive list... '

But there's no reason why 6 named Ties can't beat the list the other guy is playing. The issue here is with the player not the list.

Do you know what the definition of madness is? doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Which fly's directly in the face of If at first you don't succeed then try again, or Practice makes Perfect. Just because I sucked the first time I picked up a Bass doesn't mean I should of stopped playing because I'd never get any better.

If you want to stick with 6 TIEs, then you could try something like:

100 points. PS 8, 7, 4x6

Howlrunner + Stealth Device/Hull Upgrade (21)

Mauler Mithel (17)

Backstabber (16)

Dark Curse (16)

2x Black Squadron Pilot + Veteran Instincts (30)

If you get your hands on a 7th TIE, then you can try out an Academy Swarm with a couple of PS6 sprinkled in:

100 points. PS 8, 2x6, 4x1

Howlrunner + Stealth Device/Hull Upgrade (21)

Backstabber/Dark Curse (16)

Black Squadron Pilot + Veteran Instincts (15)

4x Academy Pilot (48)

There are many variants. You can check out the Regionals thread to get some inspiration, but the real trick is figuring out the optimal way to fly them. It can differ slightly by the flavor of the swarm.

Also, asteroid placement matters. As a swarm player you will generally want to place the asteroids in the corners to give yourself room to maneuver all your ships.

Nice suggestions. This will keep the rebel scum on their toes! Cheers

Focus fire.

This is what I had to ram into my head before I got better. 3 wounded ships put out as much damage potential as 3 healthy ships (more or less) and this game is all about maximizing your damage output and minimizing your damage input.

Spot on. I need to hammer this into my mind!!!

And intercepter for flanking, or a bomber or something.

People should really read the whole post and at least part of the thread before posting... If you did you'd see why he doesn't do that.

We see but it's not working is it and we are offering viable alternatives.

His being stubborn and insisting on only using ties is not to his benefit, we are not trying to be dicks but helpful fellow imperials.

Do you know what the definition of madness is? doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Whilst I appreciate the suggestions. I have to disagree with the madness.

I'm not winning at the moment. But 6 TIEs is viable and I think I can do a lot better. I'm not one to quit and I know I'll be really pleased when it works.

With 6 ties vs a squad of 3 your advantage is range 1. Try to block his ships and make them lose actions and then smoke them with range 1 shots by your other guys. Remember that each of your guys is a smaller part of your point total than any one of his. If you can trade shots at range 1 and he gets 1 of yours and you get one of his you win. Also once you get close, try to spread out and block movement. Use barrel rolls at different levels to make a minefield for his movement. Howl runner is good but don't go crazy trying to keep everyone too close after the initial joust. Backstabber is better as a flanker if you are using him. Reevaluate your tactics. Try to keep your strategies varied enough to keep him off balance. Also practice movement and tactics in your spare time, if you have any.