Tbh any shuttle without an engine upgrade is a waste of points, if your opponent ignores it and just gets behind it then its out of the game.

Even the vader doom bus should take the EU.

Im sure people will argue that's 4 more point you are killing yourself but no engine to me means that 24's points that will probably only get one pass of combat then spend another 3-4 turns trying to get back in the fight.

Tbh any shuttle without an engine upgrade is a waste of points, if your opponent ignores it and just gets behind it then its out of the game.

Even the vader doom bus should take the EU.

Im sure people will argue that's 4 more point you are killing yourself but no engine to me means that 24's points that will probably only get one pass of combat then spend another 3-4 turns trying to get back in the fight.

I get your point about engine upgrade, but I would only use it on a non doom shuttle. Doom shuttle should never take a move above a 1 once in range. You should get at least three shots, and that should be three Vader uses that will pretty much end your ship by itself. I love the shuttle. I use it all the time, and the doom shuttle is still my favorite. So good against annoying squints.

Of course for any non doom shuttle EU is a must. To me those 4 points can be a big deal on other ships. Imperial lists are all about attrition. For the points the doom shuttle is great at attrition. If it dies it is supposed to. Just don't rush up with it and it is amazing.

I haven't tried the doomshuttle yet, but my thinking is that without the EU you should hold it back a little behind the rest of your force.

My theory on this is twofold:

- After the first pass, the enemy has 2 choices - turn to face your main force and stay in front of your doomshuttle, or continue to get behind your doomshuttle, giving the rest of your force plenty of time to make their own turns.

- By holding back a little, Vader is more likely to be using his ability after the rest of your force has stripped shields for him.

Anyone else have any thoughs on my thinking here? Does it have promise, or am I just squandering imperial hardware?

Tbh any shuttle without an engine upgrade is a waste of points, if your opponent ignores it and just gets behind it then its out of the game.Even the vader doom bus should take the EU.Im sure people will argue that's 4 more point you are killing yourself but no engine to me means that 24's points that will probably only get one pass of combat then spend another 3-4 turns trying to get back in the fight.

I get your point about engine upgrade, but I would only use it on a non doom shuttle. Doom shuttle should never take a move above a 1 once in range. You should get at least three shots, and that should be three Vader uses that will pretty much end your ship by itself. I love the shuttle. I use it all the time, and the doom shuttle is still my favorite. So good against annoying squints.Of course for any non doom shuttle EU is a must. To me those 4 points can be a big deal on other ships. Imperial lists are all about attrition. For the points the doom shuttle is great at attrition. If it dies it is supposed to. Just don't rush up with it and it is amazing.

I strongly disagree, you might get three shots but there is a good chance you will be wasting vader on shields.

Vader works better in the mid -late game when most ships won't have any shields left but with no engine good luck in getting even Y-Wings in your arc.

Sure you can use the stop maneuver but now you don't have a focus for your attack.

But hey, each to their own. :-)

Tbh any shuttle without an engine upgrade is a waste of points, if your opponent ignores it and just gets behind it then its out of the game.Even the vader doom bus should take the EU.Im sure people will argue that's 4 more point you are killing yourself but no engine to me means that 24's points that will probably only get one pass of combat then spend another 3-4 turns trying to get back in the fight.

I get your point about engine upgrade, but I would only use it on a non doom shuttle. Doom shuttle should never take a move above a 1 once in range. You should get at least three shots, and that should be three Vader uses that will pretty much end your ship by itself. I love the shuttle. I use it all the time, and the doom shuttle is still my favorite. So good against annoying squints.Of course for any non doom shuttle EU is a must. To me those 4 points can be a big deal on other ships. Imperial lists are all about attrition. For the points the doom shuttle is great at attrition. If it dies it is supposed to. Just don't rush up with it and it is amazing.

I strongly disagree, you might get three shots but there is a good chance you will be wasting vader on shields.

Vader works better in the mid -late game when most ships won't have any shields left but with no engine good luck in getting even Y-Wings in your arc.

Sure you can use the stop maneuver but now you don't have a focus for your attack.

But hey, each to their own. :-)

My opponents just ignore it when they see it has no engines and get behind it and now a third of my force is out of the game.

I play against quite a few different people and we all agree that the engine is mandatory.

My opponents just ignore it when they see it has no engines and get behind it and now a third of my force is out of the game.

I play against quite a few different people and we all agree that the engine is mandatory.

Maybe in your Meta. In mine the Shuttle is clearly the most dangerous when firing. I mean, it can stall more than long enough to put out that hurt before passing on. 1 Forward, then stop. 1 Forward then stop. You're averaging 1.5 forward a turn. That's a lot of shots. Against anything but B-Wings and Chewie those crits are killer. Even then, the extra damage can be good.

On Non-Doom Shuttles I 100% agree. But with a Doom Shuttle you should be actively trying to kill your shuttle before they can. Some good blocking can really stall ships in your arc as well.

If my opponent is maneuvering that hard to get behind my 24 point blanc space bison, I'm gonna feel like that that's a win anyway. As others have mentioned, the thing is capable of crawling forward, getting behind that will take some serious work, and make them really predictable for the rest of my squad to get some really good flank shots.

The only shuttle loadouts I ever use are omicron with advanced sensors and engine upgrade or omicron with vader

I have used the buzzsaw shuttle a couple times but mostly just ran into low agility targets and the gunner/fcs combo didn't do much. plus at that price (assumign you also have engine upgrade) you are pretty close to a firespray and I would rather just take that.

Shuttles are cheap HP and can hit hard when you put points into them, but I'm not really a fan of using them often. Epic play seems like a really good fit for them though as even with minimal upgrades and no boost action they have plenty of things to point at and can give your fleet some much needed durability against huge ships

On a Vader shuttle I usually find Advanced Sensors to be the most useful. I am trying to deal at least 2/3 of my ship's own THP in damage to itself provided I pointed it in the right direction. So there are either two things that happen: A ) After three Vader shots, my opponent deals the final blow, or B ) I've destroyed the ships before even needing Vader.

In the first case, an Engine Upgrade just means wasted points - the shuttle doesn't need to get back into combat if it's dead. In the second case, I'm already winning or have won and the shuttle being alive is just a bonus - it's okay that I need a turn or two extra to get back into the fight.

But having Advanced Sensors means that I can always get that Focus or Target Lock even when I am holding my position or for some reason must do a hard turn. Fire Control System is alright, but in my experience the Vader shuttle does not get to fire at the same target two turns in a row, and if it is, then the thing wasn't going to survive with or without the free Target Lock.

While I can't speak for experience I realized that you can run

Omicron with Advanced Sensors and Engine Upgrade,

Doom Shuttle

4 Academy ties.

I call it Doom and Zoom.

It looks like it could put out a lot of hurt and take just as much. It's got more HP than Triple Firespray, until you start using Vader and as many attack dice as a Howlswarm plus Vader's shenanigans.

Jendon st title hlc

Jonus seismic

Scimitar conc missile

Scimitar conc missile

Shuttle is seemingly terrible but one of the best ships out there.

Also adv sensors is good for a poor mans engine upgrade. Good for the self bumps and the like too

Ion cannon tactician and Mara jade are pretty hilarious.

I can't help but notice that there are few named shuttle pilots in the builds that are being tossed around. Probably for good reason -- Buzzsaw Shuttle, Fast Shuttle and Doom Shuttle are cheap, and plenty effective. However, I recently had surprising success with Captain Kagi. Here's the build:

Captain Kagi (Sensor Jammer, Darth Vader) [36]

Carnor Jax (Push the Limit, Hull Upgrade, Royal Guard TIE, Shield Upgrade) [34]

Royal Guard Pilot (Push the Limit, Hull Upgrade, Royal Guard TIE, Targeting Computer) [30]

2 Problems that I saw with Kagi while testing a pretty similar build. See my Royal Shuttle thread.

First, he moves late and since Jax is going close for a Range 1 action denial, there is sometimes when he will not be close enough to take the Target Lock.

Second, if you already have a Target Lock on Kagi, you can take a Target Lock action on somebody else. So the trick is to target lock Kagi and then not use it. You will have one turn to attack without modifier but next turn will be able to TL any other ship you want.

After a couple of games, I decided to switch him for a OGP and had better success then by taking some more upgrades for the ships with the 6 points left.

Final build looked like this:

Carnor Jax + PtL + Hull Upgrade + Stealth Device (35pts)

Royal Guard + PtL + Hull Upgrade (28pts)

OGP + AdvS + HLC + Mercenary Copilot + Engine Upgrade (37 pts) (Mercenary Copilot would be switch for tactician once legal)

Second, if you already have a Target Lock on Kagi, you can take a Target Lock action on somebody else. So the trick is to target lock Kagi and then not use it. You will have one turn to attack without modifier but next turn will be able to TL any other ship you want.

Oh. Forgot about that one. Kagi is so easily neutered, isn't he? My other fear was Fire-Control System, which also bypasses Kagi's ability. -sigh- I was just so excited to put Kagi into play. He can probably wreak havoc on a secondary weapon alpha strike, but I don't know how many of those exist these days. Mainly I was hoping to keep my interceptors safe from the impending Flechette Torpedoes, but those don't seem to have picked up momentum in my area. Looks like I'll keep the shuttle off the table for now and stick to my interceptor squad.

Yeah, same here. Synergy with Jax look so nice on paper, but once you get to the table, you realise that it is not that useful and regret not having taken another pilot.

I've recently try OGP + HLC and I thought it work out great. Some have already said it before, but the point of the shuttle is not to outlive everybody else on the mat. You want to throw out a few punches and then it's out of the game.

I've used 4 TIEs (you can switch them up with whatever you prefer flying) to flank and send into the dogfight and it work. It's a versatile squad that can easyly adapt to what's on the mat.

Has anyone put any thought in Yorr aiding some tie defenders in shedding stress for their tight red turns ? Being something of a shuttle lover, I can't help but wish to take on the Defender as another project with its somewhat scattered and inconsistent review. Would Defenders and shuttle/s be a good mix ? Let us talk about it, today, in Shuttle Talk.

Has anyone put any thought in Yorr aiding some tie defenders in shedding stress for their tight red turns ? Being something of a shuttle lover, I can't help but wish to take on the Defender as another project with its somewhat scattered and inconsistent review. Would Defenders and shuttle/s be a good mix ? Let us talk about it, today, in Shuttle Talk.

I don't think the red turns are what's really holding the defender back. Stat-wise, it's a great ship. The main issue is justifying whether or not it's actually worth the cost to field one. Personally, I think the named pilot abilities should've been nothing short of amazing. From a first glance, they seem like it, but in practice, they're too circumstantial.

Regarding shuttles, I have flown the defender with the shuttle and I like it. Doomshuttle is cheap and can take some pressure off the defender.

Has anyone put any thought in Yorr aiding some tie defenders in shedding stress for their tight red turns ? Being something of a shuttle lover, I can't help but wish to take on the Defender as another project with its somewhat scattered and inconsistent review. Would Defenders and shuttle/s be a good mix ? Let us talk about it, today, in Shuttle Talk.

The obvious problem there would be that Yorr has to take the stress token is received by the Defender, i.e., at the moment the Defender executes a red turn. Seems like the Defender would only be executing a red turn if you were using it as a flanker, but if so, you probably won't be within Range 2 of Yorr when you execute the red turn and he can't eat your stress.

I'd had a similar thought about using BSP and Wingman, but Wingman only allows you to remove the stress token during the Combat phase, so while it saves you from having to do a green straight on your next move, the Defender still won't be able to do an action that turn. I guess this would be less of a problem for Vessery, though.

Doomshuttle..

24 pts of glorious, unmitigated, deep-space bison..

...One of my sugar daddies bought me one..

Where can I get me one of those? I'll even flash my man boobs..

how about

OGP+ Ion Cannon+ Tactician+ Advanced Sensors+ EU X3

Thoughts?