You guys are arguing a pointless circle. Lucas said he drew on martial traditions both eastern and western for inspiration in creating the Jedi.

You misunderstand, 2P51.

This isn't arguing. It's sharing points of view (at least, I think so) and the factors that shaped them.

I don't feel that Sylpheed is attempting to change my mind and I have stated outright that I have no desire to change theirs.

in anticipation of more fully realized Jedi PCs (and other Force Users) getting a glimpse of other... well, I'll say "denominations"... of enthusiast can only be good for the fandom in general and for RPGers in specific.

Perhaps a separate thread to discuss the fictional origins of the Jedi and their use (or avoidance) of violence is in order.

Obi wan lops that dudes arm off, and I never got the impression that Luke was holding back.

They carry lethal cutting weapons.

Honestly, it seemed reasonable to me.

In the cantina Obi Wan moves Luke (who the outlaws are pissed at) away and tries to shift their attention to himself, talking to the assholes a whole lot friendlier than Luke did. He then tries to make any perceived slight "right" by offering to buy them a drink. That fails, but only when one of them pulls a lethal weapon does he whip out his own lethal weapon. And even then he strikes to disable, not kill. (And even though he did his best to make sure his attacker didn't die, someone calls the cops - even defending yourself has repercussions.)

Obi Wan knows he can destroy these guys without breaking a sweat, but he still does everything he can to avoid a fight (short of mind control). Sure they're trying to avoid notice, but it's still a **** sight more restrained than most PCs would have been.

I think the whole use the Force for Knowledge and Defense as opposed to Attack isn't meant to be taken completely literally. It's fairly impossible to defend yourself, other than running away, without fighting back. So I think if one is employing the Force in defense of self, or particularly others, it's ok if it is used in an offensive fashion.

Couldn't one use the force to turn an opponent's attack against themselves. Like deflecting blaster bolts back. Then you've used it in defense and never actually attacked. There is a form or martial arts that does this, just uses the opponents own force against them. I've seen it described as "pacifist". Just my .02

Obi wan lops that dudes arm off, and I never got the impression that Luke was holding back.

They carry lethal cutting weapons.

Honestly, it seemed reasonable to me.

he strikes to disable, not kill. (And even then, someone calls the cops - even defending yourself has repercussions.)

I took that as more there being a jedi (illegal), and the reward for such. Peeps are poor and despite and jedi are the devil. Oddly enough, I never took it as there was "violence", which seems the most obvious reason.

Couldn't one use the force to turn an opponent's attack against themselves. Like deflecting blaster bolts back. Then you've used it in defense and never actually attacked. There is a form or martial arts that does this, just uses the opponents own force against them. I've seen it described as "pacifist". Just my .02

I believe you're referring to jujutsu , and you're partially correct in that it involves using an opponent's strength and emotion against them. It's not exactly pacifist, however, since it requires conflict to be effective in the first place and has several fatal moves. A more pacifistic option might be tai chi , but again, it's still a martial art, even if it doesn't emphasize its combat roots.

You might be thinking of the Hollywood construct, the martial pacifist , but that's not actually pacifism. That's just a general distaste for violence and treating it as a last (but viable) resort. Actual pacifism would involve making no moves that put anyone in harm's way for anything. In a fight, a true pacifist would either flee or take the beating, even die rather than fight back. Any retaliation is, by definition, against pacifism.

Back on topic, I think it's a given that any and all careers in F&D will have a Force Rating involved, since the book is supposed to be all about the Force. Since FFG seems to be skirting the line between canon and Legends status, it's up in the air what these careers could be, but it makes sense that they might follow some sort of doctrinal lines. Aside from "Republic Jedi" and "Grey Paladin," though, I'm at a loss what the others might be called. They'd have to be non-xenophobic, so the Baran-Do are out, and the Nightsisters are too villainous for how the books have been so far.

The Force powers will, like EotE and AoR, probably not be tied to specific careers, so any Force-sensitive with the requisite Force Rating should be able to use whatever powers they choose to buy. (Caveat: I don't know for sure that Force powers aren't tied to careers, but it seems like the powers in both EotE and AoR are purchasable by either the Exile or Emergent from their respective books.)

I assume that FFG already has some idea about what careers will be made available and how the Force will work with properly trained individuals; I doubt they went into F&D completely blind and flying by the seat of their pants.

I think it's a given that any and all careers in F&D will have a Force Rating involved, since the book is supposed to be all about the Force.

god I hope not... I was really hoping to get those rangers (the jedi helpers), and stuff like that.

I think it's a given that any and all careers in F&D will have a Force Rating involved, since the book is supposed to be all about the Force.

god I hope not... I was really hoping to get those rangers (the jedi helpers), and stuff like that.

That I could see. Rangers and some form of Acolyte, those who aren't actually Force sensitive but serve the Jedi in hopes that either they or their children will become so. Acolyte could even include the aforementioned Scholar specialization, those who study Force users and their culture.

Antaran Rangers, yeah. I could also see Jedi Service Corps getting a mention (if the Lucasfilm Story Group allows it!).

Baran-Do don't have to be out. And the Nightsisters in TCW actually aren't completely evil like they are in Courtship of Princess Leia and onward.

Anyway, the MO of FFG so far has been to create generic careers and generic specializations . I believe, whatever they do in terms of Force usage, they will be creating generic careers and specializations upon which many a character concept can be framed.

For example, the Baran-Do Sage might fit really well into left side of the "Monk" talent tree (just spit-balling, not saying I expect a Monk specialization) whereas the right side of the talent tree might be conducive to building a Jal Shey Advisor.

I would expect that any mention of specific Force traditions would appear in the fluff and descriptions, not as titles on talent trees or careers. "Jedi," of course, is a bit of an exception to this IMO simply because it is so iconic. Moreso, I feel, even than Bounty Hunter, Smuggler, Ace Pilot.