The only thing i don't like about B Wings is how slow they are. Whenever I play against them with faster ships, it isn't too hard to exploit their slowness my rushing into ideal positions for flanking, etc.

I mean, they have the 3 bank and 4 fwd, but they are Red. Once the B Wing is stressed, they only have 3 options for distressing, making action denial pretty easy. I suppose this only matters vs lower PS ships.

I loved the B-wing long before FFG had a gleam in it's eye that would become this game. It is a well implemented ship in this game, but I can understand why someone may choose not to fly it.

It is a popular ship, and likely subject to some unwarranted hate just based on that. Unfortuantley though it's dial isn't that great and is very reliant on Barrel roll and often advanced sensors to make up for all the red, and I can see where that could put some people off.

I disagree on the dial. It's a fantastic dial. Slow is good. This game likes slow. Fast is bad except on k-turns.

And I've never run a B-wing with advanced sensors. I will when I get my e-wings for a 2nd aand 3rd card.

I haven't really played with it enough - when I have used it I've been thrashed; people just got behind me with Tie Fighters and Interceptors and there was nothing I could to to get them back in my arc. Surely if you keep doing abbrel rolls and red one turns, everyone knows what your next move has to be?

The way B-wings fight lends well to slow. FCS means you want the same ship in your sight for at least two rounds. HLC means you wanna start pewing from far way. One forward -> Barrel Roll back helps keep somewhat stationary in terms of range.

Or you can go Adv sensor and become unpredictable, which is NOT boring!

I disagree on the dial. It's a fantastic dial. Slow is good. This game likes slow. Fast is bad except on k-turns.

And I've never run a B-wing with advanced sensors. I will when I get my e-wings for a 2nd aand 3rd card.

I'm not going to beat you up for your opinion, but I will point out that the B-Wing dial has more red than any other Rebel dial.

Over a third of it's moves are red and only three are green and that is what I based my statement on, I'm definitely not saying the B-wing is impossible to fly, just that when you look at the options the b-wing's dial is the most restrictive of the rebel dials and that probably puts some people off of flying it.

I disagree on the dial. It's a fantastic dial. Slow is good. This game likes slow. Fast is bad except on k-turns.

And I've never run a B-wing with advanced sensors. I will when I get my e-wings for a 2nd aand 3rd card.

I'm not going to beat you up for your opinion, but I will point out that the B-Wing dial has more red than any other Rebel dial.

Over a third of it's moves are red and only three are green and that is what I based my statement on, I'm definitely not saying the B-wing is impossible to fly, just that when you look at the options the b-wing's dial is the most restrictive of the rebel dials and that probably puts some people off of flying it.

The B-wing can outfly almost every ship in an up close furball. Between 1 forward, 2 turn, 2 KTurn, and 1 Turns it rarely crashes. With a sensors slot it doesn't worry so much about losing actions.

In a dogfight the B-Wing outflys the X-Wing. It can keep an A-Wing harrassed until the thing runs away. All in all it's a tricksy little ship. Barrel Roll helps a ton too. It can offset a lot of dial issues.

I disagree on the dial. It's a fantastic dial. Slow is good. This game likes slow. Fast is bad except on k-turns.

And I've never run a B-wing with advanced sensors. I will when I get my e-wings for a 2nd aand 3rd card.

I'm not going to beat you up for your opinion, but I will point out that the B-Wing dial has more red than any other Rebel dial.

Over a third of it's moves are red and only three are green and that is what I based my statement on, I'm definitely not saying the B-wing is impossible to fly, just that when you look at the options the b-wing's dial is the most restrictive of the rebel dials and that probably puts some people off of flying it.

Having red moves doesn't mean the ship has a bad dial. The HWK only has three red, but the B's dial is a damnside better! The HWK can't even K-turn!

I disagree on the dial. It's a fantastic dial. Slow is good. This game likes slow. Fast is bad except on k-turns.

And I've never run a B-wing with advanced sensors. I will when I get my e-wings for a 2nd aand 3rd card.

I'm not going to beat you up for your opinion, but I will point out that the B-Wing dial has more red than any other Rebel dial.

Over a third of it's moves are red and only three are green and that is what I based my statement on, I'm definitely not saying the B-wing is impossible to fly, just that when you look at the options the b-wing's dial is the most restrictive of the rebel dials and that probably puts some people off of flying it.

Thing is, with FCS Red isn't nearly so bad. Advanced sensors does the same.

The B-wing can outfly almost every ship in an up close furball. Between 1 forward, 2 turn, 2 KTurn, and 1 Turns it rarely crashes. With a sensors slot it doesn't worry so much about losing actions.

In a dogfight the B-Wing outflys the X-Wing. It can keep an A-Wing harrassed until the thing runs away. All in all it's a tricksy little ship. Barrel Roll helps a ton too. It can offset a lot of dial issues.

I completely agree with you.

A 22 point ship that either needs to not focus/TL for mobility, or spend 2 to 3 more points to take actions does put some people off though.

Not me; but I think the beauty of the B-wing is that it's front loaded and durable enough to kill ships before it makes the inevitable red move and becomes predictable. It's dial is just enough to make this work with it's upgrade options, but it's not a "good" dial per say.

I disagree on the dial. It's a fantastic dial. Slow is good. This game likes slow. Fast is bad except on k-turns.And I've never run a B-wing with advanced sensors. I will when I get my e-wings for a 2nd aand 3rd card.

I'm not going to beat you up for your opinion, but I will point out that the B-Wing dial has more red than any other Rebel dial. Over a third of it's moves are red and only three are green and that is what I based my statement on, I'm definitely not saying the B-wing is impossible to fly, just that when you look at the options the b-wing's dial is the most restrictive of the rebel dials and that probably puts some people off of flying it.

Having red moves doesn't mean the ship has a bad dial. The HWK only has three red, but the B's dial is a damnside better! The HWK can't even K-turn!

The Hawk doesn't need a K-Turn. It just needs to lazily broadside everything with its turret. Just amble along the outside of a fight. It's almost sily how good that dial can be because it doesn't need to do much other than 2 Turns to stay near a fight. much like Y-Wings.

Once Rebel Aces comes out for 2 points you can make the B-wing pretty fast. Nien Numb + the crew slot upgrade and suddenly that red 4 forward is green. Not so slow now.

Once Rebel Aces comes out for 2 points you can make the B-wing pretty fast. Nien Numb + the crew slot upgrade and suddenly that red 4 forward is green. Not so slow now.

For 4 Points I could also take Engine Upgrade, which I hear is beastly on a B-Wing.

I disagree on the dial. It's a fantastic dial. Slow is good. This game likes slow. Fast is bad except on k-turns.

And I've never run a B-wing with advanced sensors. I will when I get my e-wings for a 2nd aand 3rd card.

I'm not going to beat you up for your opinion, but I will point out that the B-Wing dial has more red than any other Rebel dial.

Over a third of it's moves are red and only three are green and that is what I based my statement on, I'm definitely not saying the B-wing is impossible to fly, just that when you look at the options the b-wing's dial is the most restrictive of the rebel dials and that probably puts some people off of flying it.

I've got to disagree. It can do everything an X-wing can do at speed 1 and 2, plus it has the option to hard turn 1, and it's more survivable on top of that. We can all agree it's not a closer, or a ship that can easily chase down a ship at range 3, but since most people target them first, there isn't much of a need for faster speed moves anyway.

Bwing durability is the main reason for it's love on the rebel side (and hate on the imperial side). The Bwing has about .5 to 1 too many HPs. If the green dice are on it's side at all it starts getting up to falcon durability quick for about half the cost. Bwings also seldom get screwed by crits... they are usually dead the same time or shortly after getting to hull.

The fact that it gets mobility shenanigans allows even imperial pilots to enjoy them. I didn't like them as a primarily imperial player either, at the beginning. I had to put in about 8 games with them before I really got the feel for it- now I do some really crazy stuff with a PTL Ibi and EU, just like a slower interceptor with almost 3x the hp.

They will soon have just about every slot you could want (sans missiles and bombs) and are getting another great named pilot. Bwings are a thing... a thing I look forward to killing but hate facing none the less.

I just dislike how the b wing is the rebel crutch just like howlerunner is the imperial crutch. 8 hp for 22 pts with 3 attack ouch. In my local meta the world champs list in a few different forms are the most common rebel build, even played a guy to take out a tournament who's first 4/5 moves were a copy and paste from that win, he had great dice luck and did big damage buy the end of the 5th, I had 1 RGP with PTL and he had one x and b left all on full health and I got them both down to 1 hull before I clipped an asteroid and blew up, he secured the tournament with that win. And that's my point they are very solid for there points cost and require very little brain power to fly them at a target but are a great strain on mental effort past the first joust.

I just dislike how the b wing is the rebel crutch just like howlerunner is the imperial crutch. 8 hp for 22 pts with 3 attack ouch. In my local meta the world champs list in a few different forms are the most common rebel build, even played a guy to take out a tournament who's first 4/5 moves were a copy and paste from that win, he had great dice luck and did big damage buy the end of the 5th, I had 1 RGP with PTL and he had one x and b left all on full health and I got them both down to 1 hull before I clipped an asteroid and blew up, he secured the tournament with that win. And that's my point they are very solid for there points cost and require very little brain power to fly them at a target but are a great strain on mental effort past the first joust.

Neither ship you've mentioned is nearly good enough to be a crutch. B-Wings drop slightly slower than X-Wings. About enough to justify their 1 point increase. They're adaptable, and fun, but X-Wings are still good ships. IF B-Wings were as much of a crutch as you say X-Wings would never see play, and yet we see them run together all the time.

If you don't like them you don't have to use them. FFG built this game in a way that doesn't force you to use a particular ship.

I just dislike how the b wing is the rebel crutch just like howlerunner is the imperial crutch. 8 hp for 22 pts with 3 attack ouch. In my local meta the world champs list in a few different forms are the most common rebel build, even played a guy to take out a tournament who's first 4/5 moves were a copy and paste from that win, he had great dice luck and did big damage buy the end of the 5th, I had 1 RGP with PTL and he had one x and b left all on full health and I got them both down to 1 hull before I clipped an asteroid and blew up, he secured the tournament with that win. And that's my point they are very solid for there points cost and require very little brain power to fly them at a target but are a great strain on mental effort past the first joust.

Neither ship you've mentioned is nearly good enough to be a crutch. B-Wings drop slightly slower than X-Wings. About enough to justify their 1 point increase. They're adaptable, and fun, but X-Wings are still good ships. IF B-Wings were as much of a crutch as you say X-Wings would never see play, and yet we see them run together all the time.

Yeah ya do see x wings (bigs helps b wings stay alive a lot longer) but have you had a look at what is winning events, most top list ( not all ) have a couple of b wings or howlerunner , that sound crutch like to me

It's an extremely capable ship, but like anything it has some tradeoffs.

To put some numbers to it, the B-wing is around 19% to 24% more durable than the X-wing. That's certainly worth 1 point, and is reflected in its raw jousting value (97%) which is currently the highest of any Rebel ship. It's handily more points efficient than the X-wing (~92% jousting efficiency), although still a tad lower than a naked TIE Fighter (by definition 100%). The Z-95 will actually be better (106%), but until then the B-wing is the best value for simply slugging it out as the rebels.

The non-jousting factors are also quite good:

• the dial is different than the X-wing's but roughly about as useful
• the System Upgrade slot can obviously be extremely useful
• barrel roll is a great action to have available
• the cannon slot is a nice bonus; cannons themselves tend to be quite expensive and self-balancing.

All said and done it is arguably about the same "value" as a TIE Fighter for the points, or even a hair better. Of non-named ships, for 2014 Regionals it's #2 in usage behind TIE Fighters. Non-named B-wing usage more than doubles non-named X-wing usage by points, although this is certainly due to the sheer volume of spectacular named X-wing abilities that tend to pull people into named X's.

I just dislike how the b wing is the rebel crutch just like howlerunner is the imperial crutch. 8 hp for 22 pts with 3 attack ouch. In my local meta the world champs list in a few different forms are the most common rebel build, even played a guy to take out a tournament who's first 4/5 moves were a copy and paste from that win, he had great dice luck and did big damage buy the end of the 5th, I had 1 RGP with PTL and he had one x and b left all on full health and I got them both down to 1 hull before I clipped an asteroid and blew up, he secured the tournament with that win. And that's my point they are very solid for there points cost and require very little brain power to fly them at a target but are a great strain on mental effort past the first joust.

Neither ship you've mentioned is nearly good enough to be a crutch. B-Wings drop slightly slower than X-Wings. About enough to justify their 1 point increase. They're adaptable, and fun, but X-Wings are still good ships. IF B-Wings were as much of a crutch as you say X-Wings would never see play, and yet we see them run together all the time.

Yeah ya do see x wings (bigs helps b wings stay alive a lot longer) but have you had a look at what is winning events, most top list ( not all ) have a couple of b wings or howlerunner , that sound crutch like to me

It's an extremely capable ship, but like anything it has some tradeoffs.

To put some numbers to it, the B-wing is around 19% to 24% more durable than the X-wing. That's certainly worth 1 point, and is reflected in its raw jousting value (97%) which is currently the highest of any Rebel ship. It's handily more points efficient than the X-wing (~92% jousting efficiency), although still a tad lower than a naked TIE Fighter (by definition 100%). The Z-95 will actually be better (106%), but until then the B-wing is the best value for simply slugging it out as the rebels.

The non-jousting factors are also quite good:

• the dial is different than the X-wing's but roughly about as useful
• the System Upgrade slot can obviously be extremely useful
• barrel roll is a great action to have available
• the cannon slot is a nice bonus; cannons themselves tend to be quite expensive and self-balancing.

All said and done it is arguably about the same "value" as a TIE Fighter for the points, or even a hair better. Of non-named ships, for 2014 Regionals it's #2 in usage behind TIE Fighters. Non-named B-wing usage more than doubles non-named X-wing usage by points, although this is certainly due to the sheer volume of spectacular named X-wing abilities that tend to pull people into named X's.

I just dislike how the b wing is the rebel crutch just like howlerunner is the imperial crutch. 8 hp for 22 pts with 3 attack ouch. In my local meta the world champs list in a few different forms are the most common rebel build, even played a guy to take out a tournament who's first 4/5 moves were a copy and paste from that win, he had great dice luck and did big damage buy the end of the 5th, I had 1 RGP with PTL and he had one x and b left all on full health and I got them both down to 1 hull before I clipped an asteroid and blew up, he secured the tournament with that win. And that's my point they are very solid for there points cost and require very little brain power to fly them at a target but are a great strain on mental effort past the first joust.

Neither ship you've mentioned is nearly good enough to be a crutch. B-Wings drop slightly slower than X-Wings. About enough to justify their 1 point increase. They're adaptable, and fun, but X-Wings are still good ships. IF B-Wings were as much of a crutch as you say X-Wings would never see play, and yet we see them run together all the time.

Yeah ya do see x wings (bigs helps b wings stay alive a lot longer) but have you had a look at what is winning events, most top list ( not all ) have a couple of b wings or howlerunner , that sound crutch like to me

Lots of people lose with B-Wings to non B-Wings as well. A crutch is a ship that is so much better you can't help but win with it unless you're also using it or another crutch ship. It can aslo mean it allows worse players to beat better players. The B-Wing doesn't do that either. People without B-Wings and without Howlrunner win all the time. Just because something performs well doesn't make it a crutch.

I frequently fly 3 B's all with FCS and HLC. I find them very successful. If all you have is B-Wings speed really doesn't matter. Your opponent has to come to you at some point. With 1 forward, 1 hard turns, and the unique 2-speed Kturn, it's very easy to keep opponents in front of you. And thanks to HLC I have 4 dice at range 3 at all times. Let my opponent close in on me, firing all the way, sustain the damage with my 5 shields, then even if they try to fly past you can do a short Kturn to keep them in range. I like pairing with Ibtisam because I have a few pts left over and she doesn't mind stress.

It's also possible to out fly two B's with a single high PS PTL interceptor. I don't really like B-wings because of their low agility, but I also like the fast Imperial ships (can't wait to get a Phantom).

Point is, while B-wings are very good because of hit points and attack dice, they are not invincible. Just don't joust them without a swarm.

I just dislike how the b wing is the rebel crutch just like howlerunner is the imperial crutch. 8 hp for 22 pts with 3 attack ouch. In my local meta the world champs list in a few different forms are the most common rebel build, even played a guy to take out a tournament who's first 4/5 moves were a copy and paste from that win, he had great dice luck and did big damage buy the end of the 5th, I had 1 RGP with PTL and he had one x and b left all on full health and I got them both down to 1 hull before I clipped an asteroid and blew up, he secured the tournament with that win. And that's my point they are very solid for there points cost and require very little brain power to fly them at a target but are a great strain on mental effort past the first joust.

Neither ship you've mentioned is nearly good enough to be a crutch. B-Wings drop slightly slower than X-Wings. About enough to justify their 1 point increase. They're adaptable, and fun, but X-Wings are still good ships. IF B-Wings were as much of a crutch as you say X-Wings would never see play, and yet we see them run together all the time.

Yeah ya do see x wings (bigs helps b wings stay alive a lot longer) but have you had a look at what is winning events, most top list ( not all ) have a couple of b wings or howlerunner , that sound crutch like to me

Lots of people lose with B-Wings to non B-Wings as well. A crutch is a ship that is so much better you can't help but win with it unless you're also using it or another crutch ship. It can aslo mean it allows worse players to beat better players. The B-Wing doesn't do that either. People without B-Wings and without Howlrunner win all the time. Just because something performs well doesn't make it a crutch.

i gotta ask do run b wings or howlerunner cos I don't and the last 2 tournaments I played with vader in an advance and played for the tournament against people who ran the last 2 world champ lists, I lost but I had never played against those type of lists and could easy see how strong they are

Howlrunner is only as good as the number of teamates you can fit around her. Flying your ties in a clump is a great way to get outflown, but it can put out a fair bit of damage.

B-wings are good, but any 4 rebel ship list with 4 ships with 3 attack dice is good. 4 Xs is good. BBEX is good. EXXX is good, etc.

I can make any number of good rebel lists without B-Wings. i can make any number of good Imperial lists without Howlrunner. In truth Howlrunner is only good if you throw 5 ships or so out there with her. Otherwise Dark Curse, Night Beast, Backstabber, BSP's with a good EPT, and Mauler are both much better fighters for their cost.