Ok, so I've been playing around with various squad ideas for the new Rebel missile boats and came up with the following combo which looks to be a pretty crazy alpha strike:

Jan Ors (25)
Decoy (2)
Blaster Turret (4)
Kyle Katarn (3)
Moldy Crow (3)

Airen Cracken (19)
Predator (3)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Munitions Failsafe (1)

Tala Squadron Pilot (13)
Homing Missiles (5)

Tala Squadron Pilot (13)
Homing Missiles (5)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

The idea would be for Jan to boost one of the Talas both in dice and in PS. Cracken fires first with his cluster missile boosting 2 targets with additional actions. One of those targets will be the boosted Tala squad to give him the TL on the desired missile target. The other action can be to the other Tala squad so he can focus+TL on his shot. You can see if Jan and Cracken will be around for another round of firing to decide if you wait to fire the second homing missile when it's upped to 5 dice, PS8, and then boosted again with Cracken for the TL on the desired target. If Jan and/or Cracken bite it, then just fire the second homing missile with 4 dice, but still boosted with both focus and TL.

Now, one of the other wrinkles is predator on the cluster missile rolls. If it looks like you had a rough roll, you can potentially reroll a hit to try and keep that cluster for another round to boost two allies with double actions another round. Otherwise, you get to reroll a die on each attack to hopefully help each attack hit harder.

If you wanna be more reliable with Cracken just give him Squad Leader instead of Predator. Thats automatically 2 actions and you dont have to worry about Cluster Missiles hitting or setting up his target lock etc.

You do realize that if either of the two Cluster Missile attacks hits it gets discarded right? Munitions Failsafe will only work if both attacks miss. I wouldn't recommend using it.

Don't you have to get within range 2 to use the cluster missiles? But outside of range 1 to use the Homing Missiles? You'll have to practice formation flying but also finding the optimal engagement range every time.

Plan old concussion missiles seem to make more sense on kraken. Why predator on kraken? Swarm tactics to get the other Tala shooting sooner.

Strongly dislike that 27 point Cracken. Munition's Failsafe just shouldn't go off although maybe you plan to use predator to try to MISS with both of its attacks. Maybe it's just me but that seems like a STUPID way to play Cracken to hand out two actions. For 21 points you take him with Squad Leader and then pass his action instead of taking the TL you'd need to fire the Cluster; once your attack comes you can attack anyone out to R3 (instead of the R2 Clusters will reach) and then pass of that second free action. You've now save SIX points and actually are trying to deal damage instead of just wiff for actions.

With the number of hits this squadron can take (not a lot) and how much damage it puts out once the missiles are gone (again not a lot) I'd be looking at something that makes a bit more of a "splash" than just Homing Missiles. Despite being able to "save" Focus tokens I'd also stay away from the Blaster Turret on Jan; don't forget that her ability causes STRESS which will make getting those tokens more difficult.

Cracken + squad leader+ cluster is icky. He garuntees TL/focus missile round for 3 others (or 2 and himself). His attacks don't have to hit to action pass. Tala/bandits are good to accompany him, and you can also torpedo up an Xwing if that's what you brought as back up.

You do realize that if either of the two Cluster Missile attacks hits it gets discarded right? Munitions Failsafe will only work if both attacks miss. I wouldn't recommend using it.

Nope. Failsafe only checks the first attack. If you miss you keep the missile, if you hit you discard it. Whatever happens with the second attack is irrelevant. Now, FFG may eventually FAQ/errata it to work differently, but that's how it works now.

Predator + Missiles seems like a good idea!

You do realize that if either of the two Cluster Missile attacks hits it gets discarded right? Munitions Failsafe will only work if both attacks miss. I wouldn't recommend using it.

Nope. Failsafe only checks the first attack. If you miss you keep the missile, if you hit you discard it. Whatever happens with the second attack is irrelevant. Now, FFG may eventually FAQ/errata it to work differently, but that's how it works now.

Where are you getting this info? I don't see anything on the munition's failsafe card that states "on the first attack only". I know there is a lot of discussion on the rules page, but I thought everyone agreed that both shots ARE Cluster Missile shots, so if either 3 dice attack hits, it discards the card. They are both the same shot from the same "Secondary Weapon card that instructs you to discard it to perform the attack". I am trying my best to piece together what you are seeing, but it seems pretty clear to me.

Now on another note, if the first one misses, and you use your Gunner attack instead of the second Cluster missile shot, you wouldn't have to discard Munition's Failsafe, since only the first shot was a Cluster Missile shot, the other was your primary weapon.

Not to take away from your squadron but i was working on something with a similar 'Alpha strike' tactic though mine is more a Formation breaker than a single target obliterator and its more about the Headhunters

Cracken + Squad Leader

Blount + Assault Missiles

Tala Squadron + Assault Missiles x2

Kyle Katarn

(100pts)

So Cracken passes 2 Actions, each to 2 of the Tala Squadron guys. Blount gets his own Target Lock and Kyles focus then fires into the target formation (since he cant miss) and strips off any defensive buffs (ie Stealth Device) and the two with Target Lock and Focus unload into the same swarm.

The only thing im considering is something to help with more damage after that alpha strike (or to players that arent dumb enough to line up in Formation for me). I could drop Kyle for a standard HWK with an Ion Turret, a Naked Rookie X-Wing or an A-Wing etc, save some points and add Failsafes.

Where are you getting this info? I don't see anything on the munition's failsafe card that states "on the first attack only".

It isn't explicitly stated, but that's how the rules work if you look at them carefully.

The munitions failure card specifically refers to THE attack. You are absolutely not allowed to check two attacks for hit/miss, so you have to identify one of the two cluster missile attacks as the one that counts for the failsafe. So now the only question is which of the two attacks counts?

With cluster missiles the precedent is that the two attacks are entirely separate, you resolve absolutely everything about the first attack before moving on to the second one. This presumably includes seeing if the card is discarded or not, since there is nothing in the rules that suggests that it doesn't happen immediately after the attack hits or misses. By the time you make the second attack you're done with the missile/failsafe interaction and the discard/no-discard decision has already been made.

Now, you might be able to come up with an argument for the second attack being the one that counts, but since the two attacks are the same it really wouldn't make much difference. And nothing you can say will change the first argument, that you are not permitted to check both attacks for hit/miss.

They are both the same shot from the same "Secondary Weapon card that instructs you to discard it to perform the attack".

This is absolutely wrong. They are NOT the "same shot", they are two entirely separate attacks. You roll evade dice separately against them, gunner triggers off either of the missing, etc.

OK, munitions fail safe. when attacking with a secondary weapon.......

if you miss with the first shot...cool, don't discard the clusters.

but then you attack with the second shot...witch should trigger fail safe again, because it says "when attacking", not when you use the card. so if you have 2 attacks, it would have the chance to trigger twice.

the contingent of discarding the card applies to both attacks, not just the first.

witch should trigger fail safe again, because it says "when attacking"

No, it says when attacking with a secondary weapon that requires you to discard the card. The second attack does not require you to discard the card because you already paid that price for the first attack, and the failsafe effect has already been resolved.

Regarding Cluster Missiles + Munitions Failsafe, just don't use them until FFG drops an FaQ regarding their usage. That way you get to avoid a Dreadsock to the face and get to save time trying to argue over it.

Attack (target lock): Spend your target lock and discard this card to perform this attack twice.

From the FAQ: Cluster Missiles is treated as two separate attacks against the same target

When attacking with a secondary weapon that instructs you to discard it to perform the attack, do not discard it unless the attack hits.

I'm pretty sure Munitions Failsafe is discarded if any of the 2 Cluster Missile attacks hit.

If we break the Munitions Failsafe card into 3 separate parts :

• When attacking with a secondary weapon
• that instructs you to discard it to perform the attack
• do not discard it unless the attack hits.

When I'm performing either of the 2 Cluster Missile attacks I check the conditions :

• Am I attacking with a secondary weapon? Yes.
• Does the secondary weapon instruct me to discard it to perform the attack (ie: the current attack)? Yes. Both Cluster Missiles attacks carry the "discard this card" as a condition.
• Did the attack (ie: the current attack) hit? If yes -> discard. If not -> don't discard.

How I see it, when Munitions Failsafe refers to "the attack", it's referring to the current attack (either the first OR the second).

The second attack does not require you to discard the card because you already paid that price for the first attack

The Cluster Missiles "discard this card" is a condition for BOTH of the attacks. You don't discard the card to perform an attack, and then get to perform a second attack. You discard the card to perform TWO attacks.

Therefore, both attacks carry the condition of having to discard Cluster Missiles, therefore they are both attacks from "a secondary weapon that instructs you to discard it to perform the attack".

The munitions failure card specifically refers to THE attack. You are absolutely not allowed to check two attacks for hit/miss, so you have to identify one of the two cluster missile attacks as the one that counts for the failsafe.

I don't see the use of "the attack" being a limiting factor. Counter example:

When an enemy ship inside your firing arc at Range 1-3 is defending, the attacker may change 1 of its Hit results to a Crit result.

"The attacker" in this case doesn't refer to a single attacker each round. It refers to the attack of the current attack.

In the same way, Munitions Failsafe's "the attack" refers to the current attack, and can trigger for both attacks which result from Cluster Missiles.

Cluster missiles

Attack (target lock): Spend your target lock and discard this card to perform this attack twice.

You are spending "the attack" to perform a 3 dice attack twice. It's still only "one attack" even though it is performed twice. The bolded part matters.

Cluster missiles

Attack (target lock): Spend your target lock and discard this card to perform this attack twice.

You are spending "the attack" to perform a 3 dice attack twice. It's still only "one attack" even though it is performed twice. The bolded part matters.

Word for word the FAQ: Cluster Missiles is treated as two separate attacks against the same target.

It is not "one attack".

• Airen Cracken (After you perform an attack, you may choose another friendly ship at Range 1. That ship may perform 1 free action.) triggers twice, allowing 2 ships to perform a free action (or 1 ship 2 actions).
• Tactician (After you perform an attack against a ship inside your firing arc at Range 2, that ship receives 1 stress token.) triggers twice, giving 2 stress tokens.
• ...

Cluster missiles are definitely two separate attacks. You can re-roll and modify the dice of both attacks independently of each other. If it was one attack you wouldn't be able to modify the dice both times.

Cluster missiles are definitely two separate attacks. You can re-roll and modify the dice of both attacks independently of each other. If it was one attack you wouldn't be able to modify the dice both times.

Cluster missiles

Attack (target lock): Spend your target lock and discard this card to perform this attack twice.

You are spending "the attack" to perform a 3 dice attack twice. It's still only "one attack" even though it is performed twice. The bolded part matters.

Word for word the FAQ: Cluster Missiles is treated as two separate attacks against the same target.

It is not "one attack".

• Airen Cracken (After you perform an attack, you may choose another friendly ship at Range 1. That ship may perform 1 free action.) triggers twice, allowing 2 ships to perform a free action (or 1 ship 2 actions).
• Tactician (After you perform an attack against a ship inside your firing arc at Range 2, that ship receives 1 stress token.) triggers twice, giving 2 stress tokens.
• ...

I am aware that they are counted as 2 separate attack (rolls) and are modifiable... but in regards to if munitions failsafe triggers or not it is still singular...

It does need clarification at some point as many others have said. I frankly, don't care either way. It would be another needed boost to missiles and torps if it was allowed. I was just giving another idea why failsafe wouldn't work.

What a stupid argument from iPeregrine. We need an FAQ, so stop passing off your interpretation as if it's definitively right. Because it's not.

Cluster Missiles is a card that causes you to discard it in order to make an attack. Correct?

Therefore, it counts as such for both attacks. The second card is still a cluster missile attack. Therefore, it still mustn't hit in order for Faklsafe to trigger. Simple English interpretation that is entirely plausible and acceptable based on the RAW.

That being said, your explanation is possible as well, which emphasizes our need for an FAQ.

In the meantime, stop passing off false information as if you know it.

I like the setup for Jan, I just think you are trying to pull off too much in an Alpha Strike with not too much regards for the rounds after.

I'd drop Airen and see if you can shore up the survivability of Jan. Possibly drop the Decoy as well and probide her with a Wingman?