The unloved tie advance is well known to only have one good pilot, that just happens to be the ultimate bad ass Lord Vader. Vader left a big impression on me from my childhood and as such since getting the tie advance I have used him with good success since. Problem is that coming 2nd in my local to a tie swarm I have felt the full effects of howlerunner. I don't like it but it's does seam to be the case that the only reliable empire list seams to be a tie swam. I don't want to go full tie swarm but I do see the benefits howlerunner provides. So I have a little bit of a different list that I wonder what ya all think.

Vader with swarm tactics 31

Howlerunner with swarm tactics 20

OGP 21

2 x AP 24

So I have 4 pts left and my thoughts are I could go EU on the shuttle, clusters on vader , black squadron pilot with draw there fire or stealth device on howlerunner .

I think the EU on the shuttle could be the way to go as after the first pass I would be able to split the shuttle off to turn around which will either be left alone while the mini swarm is being dealt with which is fine or it will be chased and the swarm is left alone

I've been itching to do something like this

Vader, Outmaneuver, EU
Howl +PTL
Black+DTF

APx2
=96 points

or 2 obsidians instead of the AP's for 98 points

you got your vader, your AP's moving first ideally, Turtley Howl, and the black to keep howl alive longer

A few questions about your list -

1 - Why are you running Swarm Tactics on Vader? If you are leaving him at range 1 with the other TIEs I would say, in true internet speak "you're doing it wrong."

Give Vader PTL and Engine Upgrade and buckle in - he can really cover some board space and becomes a great flanker.

2 - Why are you running the OMG instead of more TIEs for Howlrunner?

3 - If you want to run a shuttle, try a build like this:

Cpt. Kagi

Vader PTL Engine Upgrade

Alpha Squad

Alpha Squad

Or

Capt. Kagi HLC

Vader PTL Engine Upgrade

Howl

Academy

In the first example, use Vader as your flanker, protect the shuttle with the other ints as an escort so to speak, or use all three as flankers.

In the second example, the HLC shuttle is a BEAST to take down and hits like a truck. Use vader as a flanker and the two TIEs as shuttle escorts until the furball, then engage.

With the rise of TL again in the recent months, Kagi is a monster on the board. People can't use their TLs to take rerolls against your fighters.

I want Vader to get a howlerunner reroll same with the shuttle , I don't want a full swarm that's why no extra ties( thought my post was sorta clear about that) and kagi is one of the fastest ways for a shuttle to go down as your forcing people to do it anyway.

The shuttle is 10hp for people to get through and being 3 shots is something for people to make a choice about shooting, same with Vader in this list.

1. TIE Advanced, even Vader, are very overcosted, so don't expect anything with an Advanced in it to be terribly competitive.
2. Missiles are generally overcosted. Putting Clusters on Vader feels like throwing good points after bad.
3. Vader doesn't need PtL, he already gets 2 actions.
4. Vader is a tank, so swarm Tactics on him can actually make sense if you put him in front and leave the more vulnerable ships (TIE Fighters, especially Howlrunner) in the back.

I would still swap out Vader for, well, almost anything else. But he does let your 3 attack + Howlrunner buffed shuttle shoot at PS9, which is really nice, and honestly one of the better uses of Vader I have seen yet.

Edit: As another idea, you can put Vader -IN- the Shuttle as Crew, get some more TIEs, and go to town!

Something like:

99 points

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics (20)

Shuttle + Vader (24)

DarkCurse/Backstabber (16)

3x Academy

1. TIE Advanced, even Vader, are very overcosted, so don't expect anything with an Advanced in it to be terribly competitive.
2. Missiles are generally overcosted. Putting Clusters on Vader feels like throwing good points after bad.
3. Vader doesn't need PtL, he already gets 2 actions.
4. Vader is a tank, so swarm Tactics on him can actually make sense if you put him in front and leave the more vulnerable ships (TIE Fighters, especially Howlrunner) in the back.

I would still swap out Vader for, well, almost anything else. But he does let your 3 attack + Howlrunner buffed shuttle shoot at PS9, which is really nice, and honestly one of the better uses of Vader I have seen yet.

Edit: As another idea, you can put Vader -IN- the Shuttle as Crew, get some more TIEs, and go to town!

Something like:

99 points

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics (20)

Shuttle + Vader (24)

DarkCurse/Backstabber (16)

3x Academy

All valid points - my only counterpoint is that Vader with PTL/EU is like...bat sh*t crazy in the amount of board he can cover, while still retaining a Focus or Evade.

However - as you said, I guess a PS9 3 dice Howlie rerolled shuttle is not a bad use for him. It does seem like a lot of points to accomplish that, though. I think I'd rather a couple Alphas or a Firespray. (Which is basically what you said - anything but Vader) so I guess in general, I agree with you, lol.

Vader is an ideal flanker. Use Howl and her pack separate from Vader. Consider adding Backstabber to make the swarm harder for the opponent to turn away from towards Vader.

I'd run Jendon or Yorr before Kagi or Omicron.

I look forward to Vader + Outmaneuver + Engine Upgrade.

I have also used him with PTL. VERY fun.

The biggest problem with an Outmaneuver/EU Vader is that you're up to 36 points at that level. At that price point, he's competing with named Phantoms, who can do far more damage and are much trickier to pin down.

I really like

Vader + Squad leader + Conc/Cluster missile

Turr + PTL

Alpha

Backstabber

Gives you 3 pts to play with. Hull on Turr, stealth/Hull on stabber or Alpha. Might even pump stabber to mauler+VI. The extra movement options for all your ties from Vader's action is great. The list hits hard. Vader is a great missile carrier. Solid list that lets you fly 3 tie types and compete with a lot of lists.

• TIE Advanced, even Vader, are very overcosted, so don't expect anything with an Advanced in it to be terribly competitive.
• Missiles are generally overcosted. Putting Clusters on Vader feels like throwing good points after bad.
• Vader doesn't need PtL, he already gets 2 actions.
• Vader is a tank, so swarm Tactics on him can actually make sense if you put him in front and leave the more vulnerable ships (TIE Fighters, especially Howlrunner) in the back.

I would still swap out Vader for, well, almost anything else. But he does let your 3 attack + Howlrunner buffed shuttle shoot at PS9, which is really nice, and honestly one of the better uses of Vader I have seen yet.

Edit: As another idea, you can put Vader -IN- the Shuttle as Crew, get some more TIEs, and go to town!

Something like:

99 points

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics (20)

Shuttle + Vader (24)

DarkCurse/Backstabber (16)

3x Academy