The Black Man states "Before making a Horror check, pass a Luck (-1) check or be devoured..."

Hank Samson Thick-skulled ability states "Hank does not make a Horror check when he first encounters a monster. Instead, he only makes a Horror check if he first fails a Combat or Evade check against a monster".

So, when is the luck check made?

1. When Hank encounters the black man or

2. if Hank fails a combat/evade check against the black man?

The wording tells me 2, but the feel for the game etc tells me 1.

The Black Man was designed with the idea that he cannot actually be "defeated" in combat: when you meet him, you have to see if you're lucky enough to survive, or you're devoured.

If you look at the back of the chit, you'll see that both the Horror Check and the Combat Check do not present modifiers (which is different from a +0 modifier): this means those checks are never rolled against the Black Man. Instead, you resolve the special text on the back.

So, even if Hank is thick-skulled, the only thing he can do when encountering the Black Man is testing his Luck (-1): if he passes, he gains 2 clues and returns the monster chit to the cup; otherwise he's devoured (and still the Black Man is returned to the cup)

Hope this helps

Simply: at the point before where you would normally make a Horror check, you make BM's Luck check. Hank thus cannot avoid this.

I rarely disagree with Tibs or Julia, much rarer both of them. However, the Black Man has a blood drop, which conveys to me that he can be defeated in combat...and only by Hank, as he doesn't require the initial Horror check. Maybe I can be convinced otherwise, but the Endless tag means you can't claim him as a trophy, and the single blood drop means he can be defeated. I concur that should he fail to defeat him, the Luck check, in lieu of a Horror check, kicks-in.

I think it's a much weaker argument to say, "Well, it's not a Horror check, it's a Luck check, so Hank's ability doesn't work." and Seriously, it only means that Hank forfeits the Clue tokens if he does defeat the Black Man.

Cheers,

Joe

Joe,

I do respect your position, but allow me a question then: what is the combat modifier you apply in order to calculate the dice for the Combat Check against him? If a combat check were possible, then you should also test Horror when encountering a Cultist, or a Witch. You don't roll dice for them and simply move to the Combat Check; in the same way (the symbol is the same) you don't roll dice for fighting the Black Man (considering who the Black Man is, there is really no sense in fighting him, I think). The blood drop is simply a measure of how strong that physical incarnation is: a Black Man is, after all, a man, so that it's normal for him to have one single blood drop.

The blood drop becomes relevant only under special occasions, I'd say. For instance, a spell such as Plague of Locusts allows you to instantly return the guy to the Monsters Cup.

Hope this helps

JULIA

Julia,

That's a very good point about the "-" used instead of a +0 for instance on both the Horror and Combat checks. Me thinks ypu make a great argument...I concede. Plague of Locusts was a nice touch : )

Cheers,

Joe

BOO! I wanted blood over that argument! And more than just ONE DROP!

Heh, see what I did there?

Dr Faust,

You're right - if I have a better position, I'll maintain the fight. But, if I'm faced with a superior force...it's best to sue for peace. Yeah, I like what you did there.

Cheers,

Joe

BOO! I wanted blood over that argument! And more than just ONE DROP!

Heh, see what I did there?

I thought it was a reference to The Merchant of Venice and was looking for the punchline. No, I'm a fool.