Hello all,

my google-fu has failed me, and I can't seem to find any mention anywhere as to how obvious it is when a psyker manifests their power.

Basically last session my GM informed me that he believed it was obvious to all when a psyker used a power (as least as far as he could recall in regards to the 40k universe).

While I'm totally cool with this, it *is* actually gnawing at me as to what it's supposed to be.

I know that detecting a sustained psychic power requires you to be a psyker (unless its manifestation is materially obvious), but I'm unsure as to the effects of a new power.

Slightly annoying, as other RPG's I play tend to be fairly explicit as to what is occurring (generally giving at least a solid basis for working out things). It also restricts a bit of what some of the more...subtle based powers can do (mind reading, glimpse to improve a bluff check *what I was planning to do*)

Again, not too fussed if it is indeed obvious, but I'd really like to be shown the rules or even fluff so I can actually know my limits in more...delicate situations.

I disagree with your GM but it's their decision. Some powers can have no physical sign or no obvious trace of them (unless of course you manifest them and you get phenomenon etc). I would argue that unless the power actively causes some destructive potency or screws up then there is no guarantee it is detectable. I disagree that all powers will cause some sort of weird glowy effect from the psyker and light them up like a tree when it is not entirely required. A gifted psyker should surely be able to manifest the warp how and wherever he needs it to be. For example with biomancy and healing abilities, you might just silently or subtly manifest the essence of the warp through your physical body and carefully pass it through your contact but nothing too obvious to the outside observer.

There are powers as well which explicitly say they are quiet or have no trace while active such as "Mind Link" (Black Crusade Core P224)

In fact there is an example of one power from the Deathwatch system which backs my point that some can be done quietly:

Mind Probe (Deathwatch Core Rulebook, P191)

...and if the Psyker wants to perform the Probe without the target's knowledge, then the psyker takes a -20 penalty to his Focus Power Test and cannot Push the power.

Looking into the Skills (Black Crusade Core P107), Psyniscience is probably the most obvious one that anyone needs to detect anything psy based:

PSYNISCIENCE

Those with the Psyniscience Skill sense the currents and eddies of the Warp and Immaterium. Characters can use the Skill to detect the presence or absence of daemons, the use of psychic powers, psychic phenomena, disturbances, or areas where the flow of the Immaterium has been unsettled or disrupted.

The skill itself says it is used to detect the use of psychic powers and it's an Advanced Skill so you need to have it to be able to use it. If you do not have this and there is no physical sign of the power being used such as a huge smoking crater or warp holes everywhere then I would argue that there is no guarantee of being found out or at the very least a chance of the power being sourced back to yourself. Additionally there are multiple ways that a power can be manifest such as through gestures, artifacts and items, symbols, sacred and dark words...none of these are necessarily obvious (except for the verbal uses of course). You could spend time silently drawing runes behind your back and channeling power slowly and the enemy wouldn't necessarily notice.

I would therefore say yes, there are definitely ways a power can operate silently so unless you make a big mess up or the power has a loud and obvious component in the requirements or the effect, some of them you may be able to manifest simply and quietly such as your mentioned ability.

The Psyniscience skill exists for a reason.

Tell your GM to review it in the core book.

Also, note that in BC everyone can attempt an untrained skill at -20, and since Psyniscience doesn't have the Psyker requirement anymore...

In BC anyone can attempt warp navigation.

Obviously this and psyniscience are both psykers tools and are used only as such in my games

The Psyniscience skill exists for a reason.

Tell your GM to review it in the core book.

Also, note that in BC everyone can attempt an untrained skill at -20, and since Psyniscience doesn't have the Psyker requirement anymore...

Didn't spot they now made it available to all. Now that's a change between rules.

Oh, and by the way there is even a note concerning detection of psychic powers and psyniscience rules in Psychic Powers chapter. It won't harm your GM to make himself familiar with it.

Being able to utilize the Psyniscience skill untrained makes no sense at all, considering the Psyker trait is a prerequisite for actually learning it in the first place. I've always treated the lack of a denotion as a Specialist skill as an editing error.

Being able to utilize the Psyniscience skill untrained makes no sense at all, considering the Psyker trait is a prerequisite for actually learning it in the first place. I've always treated the lack of a denotion as a Specialist skill as an editing error.

Only War does list being a Psyker as one of its aptitudes for this particular skill suggesting that it may have indeed been an editing error.

Being able to utilize the Psyniscience skill untrained makes no sense at all, considering the Psyker trait is a prerequisite for actually learning it in the first place. I've always treated the lack of a denotion as a Specialist skill as an editing error.

I'm fine with Psyniscience being a Basic skill. I think the error (from my point of view) is that Psyniscience doesn't have a snippet in it's description clarifying that you have to be a psyker to use it at all .

Being able to utilize the Psyniscience skill untrained makes no sense at all, considering the Psyker trait is a prerequisite for actually learning it in the first place. I've always treated the lack of a denotion as a Specialist skill as an editing error.

Only War does list being a Psyker as one of its aptitudes for this particular skill suggesting that it may have indeed been an editing error.

Dark Heresy 2nd Ed. then goes back to making it a generalized skill that anyone can take. It even further clarifies that this is intentional, stating something along the lines of being able to determine that there are warp effects around by noticing minute changes in the environment, like the smell of ozone or disturbed dust or something like that.

I don't remember the specifics, I just remember thinking that "...this is the dumbest thing I'd seen in DH2 yet" .

Being able to utilize the Psyniscience skill untrained makes no sense at all, considering the Psyker trait is a prerequisite for actually learning it in the first place. I've always treated the lack of a denotion as a Specialist skill as an editing error.

I'm fine with Psyniscience being a Basic skill. I think the error (from my point of view) is that Psyniscience doesn't have a snippet in it's description clarifying that you have to be a psyker to use it at all .

Being able to utilize the Psyniscience skill untrained makes no sense at all, considering the Psyker trait is a prerequisite for actually learning it in the first place. I've always treated the lack of a denotion as a Specialist skill as an editing error.

Only War does list being a Psyker as one of its aptitudes for this particular skill suggesting that it may have indeed been an editing error.

Dark Heresy 2nd Ed. then goes back to making it a generalized skill that anyone can take. It even further clarifies that this is intentional, stating something along the lines of being able to determine that there are warp effects around by noticing minute changes in the environment, like the smell of ozone or disturbed dust or something like that.

I don't remember the specifics, I just remember thinking that "...this is the dumbest thing I'd seen in DH2 yet" .

So basically then that logic for detecting psychic powers in DH2 it's like being able to detect radiation levels by feeling yourself develop cancer, watching your hair fall out and your skin blistering. Horrible method and I would be quickly house ruling that out. I'd agree leaving it to only Psykers or those who have had some training or been possessed by a daemon at some point and been freed.

In BC it could also be because almost every player Character is a warp-touched lunatic, who's been far too long on the wrong side of reality?