It's my understanding, and it could be different now, that STCs were plans and machines that could independently manufacture things, without the need of dedicated AdMech presence. Things you would need on a new world could be built, without needing to teach the natives, or fresh colonists, how to do that, and such. Thus they were standard, and the Ford-made assembly line would crank out numerous copies of the same lasgun, Leman Russ, or air-scrubber. Some of them are the only place left where info on how to make what they do still exists, and the Imperium's ability to promptly mass-produce ANYTHING is ALWAYS in question, so they are always valuable. Again, that is my take on them, and subject to error. Venkelos said this.

That's pretty much how I figure it. Apart from that what makes them valuable is not the Mass Producing but the lost technology inside. Even if the designs are for a coffee maker. The tech of before the Horus Heresy even before the Great Crusade. During the Golden age of humanity. Priceless. Another difference is that I don't think that STCs can 'build' things as such. More just a keeper of designs. If they could build... then why that crummy reward in DW.

An actual STC, a Standard Template Construct, is a machine into which you can input what you want - a building, a tank, a weapon, and so on, and what materials you have available, and the machine will produce easy-to-understand instructions for how to build it. It contains the knowledge of how to build just about anything, so finding a whole, intact STC would allow the Mechanicus to recreate the entire technological base of ancient humanity, in theory.

Odds are that even if they did find it, some Archmagos would just roost on it, printing out the occasional new design and claim it as a rediscovery to increase his status and power. That's what I cynically believe, anyway.

We actually had it in our campaign that we stumbled upon a fully intact STC on Aubrey's Anvil, trapped with a bunch of AdMech Explorers inside a Necron Tesseract prison. We took it straight to Mars, abandoning everything that we were doing, and when we got there we just handed it over. Thing is, the AdMech would kill for something like this, they'd wipe out a sector for it, and all the other factions that exist that may want it too. So, all you can do is hand it over and hope for something good to come out of it, which did happen.

That said, it will take hundreds of years to figure out what the STC can do and what patterns it can make, not to mention the maybe thousands of years to decide what exactly the AdMech WANTS to do with the thing. The return of an intact STC may seem like its the salvation of humanity but in the grim dark future it really only causes more infighting and civil wars on Mars as powerful Magos try to decide what it is they want to do.

We actually had it in our campaign that we stumbled upon a fully intact STC

Good old standard Rogue Trader plot #3. How does it feel to know that none of yours, or anyone else's accomplishments for the rest of human history will ever amount to even a fraction of the importance of this singular event?

If you weren't made high lord as a reward, and given your own sector, you've been gypped. Not only that, but I'd imagine the fabricator-general would lay claim to that thing and wring every last schematic out of it himself.

Naturally it's your campaign, so it's your GM's interpretation that goes, but by the Void Dragon's rusty carcass, finding an intact STC is jumping the shark so hard that you land on another shark.

Somewhat depends on interpretation of STC. In some fluff it's used to refer to the entire system of technology (ie, the everything machine). In other cases its used just to refer to the construction of a particular machine or set of machines, such as the "Combat Knife STC" found by the tanith (iirc). But yes, I agree that finding the "everything box" is rather extreme, even for Rogue Trader.

I'm of the mind that despite Admech rhetoric, the last thing they want is to find a fully intact STC. And for several reasons. It is my understanding that Humanity "finished" technology in the Dark Age of Technology. So if a complete STC was found then there is no need for the pursuit of knowledge which is a mandate of the Admech. And since you aren't allowed to create something new, because that wouldn't be an ancient design pattern and anything not an ancient design pattern is heresy, what else is there to do?

Secondly, a working STC makes the Admech and probably the Navigator Houses and maybe even Astropaths obsolete. And no one wants to lose their importance. It is my understanding that STCs were usable by your average yokel farmer. Who had to push a button and not burn incense, chant for 6 hours while dancing naked. There is archeotech that lets ships make warp jumps without Navigators. One would assume there could be longer ranged versions than the one we know of thus making Navigators obsolete. And I don't think its a stretch to have FTL communications as well making Astropaths no longer needed.

So IF an entire STC is found, the party is going to be besieged by assassination attempts and all out attacks as various forces will basically do whatever it takes to either stop the news of the discovery from spreading or even destroy the STC.

In my opinion, the best thing to do with a complete STC is to immediately run off to the far corners of space, and build an independent civilization. When the Imperium eventually expands out to you, you should be at godtier tech so should you should be fine. As that might take several decades/centuries you can easily be ready to turn back any one foolish enough to say you belong to the Imperium. After a millennium or two your RT dynasty will be sitting on the Golden Throne. Simply because you will have tech so advanced.

Why? As long as the AdMech controls the STC, they can still dispense new technologies at their leisure.

And not only that, but printing the instructions to make a tank is not quite the same as making the actual tank. The STC is a repository of knowledge, not an everything factory - at least according to the old bible.

Also my sister has caught up with the thread and she wants to know what is stopping her from making a Teleportarium from an inferior metal? Say steel instead of adamantium. Apart from physical durability, does the metal really matter? And she refutes the points made that she can't take apart and put back together something. Not if you take notes. While yes she would have no idea about the actual science behind how a Teleportaium works, you don't need that if you step by step duplicated in reserve order what you did to take the thing apart.

To those that made the example of dismantling a car and putting it back together, well yes you might not know why the pieces are how they are or how things work but you should be able to take a part and put together a car given enough time and really good notes.

Using inferior materials and rebuilding based on self-made Ikea directions sounds like a good way to get a one way trip into the Warp. There are easier ways to get turned into a Chaos spawn. A car you rebuild slightly wrong might not run right, a teleportarium you build slightly wrong is going to either make you daemon lunch or enable a re-enactment of The Fly.

Not everything is attached with convenient screws. Welding is a thing, and for archeotech, I'd imagine molecular fusion is also a thing.

As for what's stopping her, tell her to get a box of medieval tools, use them to take apart a car, put it back together again so that it works, and then build a new one from her notes - except the new one is going to be made out of pure lead instead of steel - and tell us how it goes.

Ultimately, I don't really care what she thinks, or what you think, or what anyone else here thinks. If the GM allows it, it can be done. If not, it can't. Why are we having this argument again?

Also my sister has caught up with the thread and she wants to know what is stopping her from making a Teleportarium from an inferior metal? Say steel instead of adamantium. Apart from physical durability, does the metal really matter? And she refutes the points made that she can't take apart and put back together something. Not if you take notes. While yes she would have no idea about the actual science behind how a Teleportaium works, you don't need that if you step by step duplicated in reserve order what you did to take the thing apart.

Tell her to prey she never airs that approach with me as GM.

That hiss of air when you opened the machine? Yeah, that's due to the underpressure inside, with the very specific mix of gasses that needed to be inside to preserve certain components. Even now, these components are busy reacting with the oxygen of your atmosphere.

Oh, you're talking notes? What sort of notes. Because this set of screws need to be aligned exactly as you found them, with under a degree of tolerance. You see, they're not actually scrws, so much as steel "containers" for the iridium helicies inside, needed for the aiming device.

and the list goes on.

If you don't know what you're documenting, odds are you will at some point miss something important, with a device as complex as a teleportarium,

Also, semi related, your sister seems to be forgetting the thing that would be likely to be taking the majority of the characters time while there in warp - doing her job.

While the Rogue Trader is the captain of the vessel and Head of the Dynasty - the Seneschal is typically the CEO of Dynasty, Inc. Given the size of these dynasties and the amount of bureaucracy in the Imperium that's a full time, 40-60 hour a week occupation in and off itself.

Even with todays tech, a car is more than just mechanics. There is plenty of electronics in there, and software too.

Take apart a Tesla, then try to rebuild one. Go on! Or rather, let an engineer from Rome, 0 AD, try.

Reverse engineering microchips and software is an incredibly difficult endeavour, even with all the top-tools available. Now consider tech 10 000 years more advanced, that are designed by Artifical Intelligences unimaginably more capable than our finest human minds. Even if you were able to physically take apart, observe and understand the components you then see, you would not be able to comprehend the complete machine.

It's just too much for a mans mind.

Nothing is too much for a mans mind. Apart from daemon, Space Marines, Technology, Emperor, aliens, inquisition, chaos, praying, etc. etc. Hmmm, maybe there are things that can blow a mans mind.

Your sister should read Roadside Picnic instead. As to game mechanics imo to make notes of dismantling archeotech PC (heresy!) should have a unnatural inteligence (x4) at least .

Take apart a Tesla, then try to rebuild one. Go on! Or rather, let an engineer from Rome, 0 AD, try.

I was thinking of using Leonardo Davinchi as an example. The man is a certifiable genius. I don't think anybody can believably suggest otherwise. I'm sure he would understand the concept of a car, it's a carriage that runs on mechanical and chemical power rather than being pulled by a horse. He'd understand the general concept, but would probably need a lot of explanation on how they worked (They run by explosions? What? That sounds awesome.).

If you gave him a shop teacher to instruct and the tools and the parts and the blueprints I'm sure he could eventually put one together. Eventually. Probably after a few tries. Hopefully he doesn't electrocute himself or cause the engine to blow out. After all, he's not used to dealing with electricity beyond seeing lightning in the sky. And it would probably take several tries before he could do any of it on his own.

But you're not doing that? No shop teacher, no blueprints, no spare parts? Oh. Those don't exist. You went back in time with just a car. Ok, you're just handing him a car, explaining what it's for and how you operate it (Including hitting the steering wheel when the engine won't catch because you're superstitious that way) and telling him to take it apart and put it together again? Then he needs to know how to make a new one from scratch? And he has to do it with the tools available in the 1500's?

You'll wind up with a pile of parts, half of them broken. Leonardo will be somewhat charred, having accidentally emptied the gas tank on himself and then later gone for a smoke of his trademark pipe. Or maybe he'll have mangled his leg by dropping the engine block on it while trying to take it apart. Being a genius he'll maybe have figured out that whatever force moves the pistons causes the wheels to turn. That the lines that go from there to the flammable liquid meant that it was what caused the pistons to turn. He might figure out how the valves worked and extrapolated air pressure and heat moved the pistons. But he'd have no idea how to manufacture a catalytic converter, or even what that funny honeycombed metal tube does. He'd never be able to manufacture gasoline, a microchip like the Engine Control Unit, nobody in his time would be able to create even a incandescent lightbulb let alone something fancy like a halogen one due to glasswork of that time not being sophisticated enough to create a proper vacuum. You can forget batteries too, since the ones that could possibly be created by chemists of the time would be too crude to be of much use, not enough power or longevity and no way to get the precise timing of the spark plug firing.

Given time and the inspiration of what he learned he might eventually invent the steam engine a good 150 years early, but you'd never get a car like the one you gave him and he'd never understand the whole of it (hell, who does today?).

That's the best analogy I can come up with.

That's the best analogy I can come up with.

Well, the Tesla doesn't have a Gas tank, it's an electric vehicle. It's also stuffed with electronics, and everything is computer-controlled.

I also thought of Leonardo as I typed the example above actually, heh. But I believe that while he has a firm grasp of mechanics (the dude invented helicopters, for smegs sake!), there is no way he could understand, dismantle or grasp even the concept of a microchip.

And that's just in a few hundred years. No consider the technological advances made over many millennia, with the ever-increasing speed of technological progress (Moores Law, better tools with which to make ever better tools, intelligent machines making even more intelligent and faster machines, etc etc).

It will not be possible. At all. And I agree with Tenebrae, stuff will break if opened. Even todays Hard Drives will crash if opened to air. Good luck reassembling that with a spanner.

I was using a normal gasoline car because it is in essence a mechanical device, and Leonardo was among other things a mechanical genius. He grasp the general concept and function, and maybe even some of the finer points, the same way a Magos who knows how to build a Warp Drive (Not archaeotech for the most part) might understand the general concept and function, and maybe even some of the finer points of how a Teleportarium operates. That's still worlds apart from having the knowledge, expertise, tools and processes to manufacture one. Don't forget, these guys are able to repair, or at least kludge/jury rig damaged Teleportarium. What I'm saying is that it's not entirely alien a thing the way a Tesla would be to say Archimedes. That still doesn't mean any old guy would be able to just figure it out.

In the end my advice to the OP is this. Via the fluff, no, archeotech isn't supposed to be something people can just figure out. It would probably be a Grand Endeavor all of it's own and would require some sort of unique circumstances like say a mostly intact STC printout, or a mothballed facility that was once used to create Teleportarium.

But what should you do? Do what's fun. If you and your players are having fun, then forget about fluff, alter the mechanics, and throw caution to the wind.

I was using a normal gasoline car because it is in essence a mechanical device, and Leonardo was among other things a mechanical genius. He grasp the general concept and function, and maybe even some of the finer points, the same way a Magos who knows how to build a Warp Drive (Not archaeotech for the most part) might understand the general concept and function, and maybe even some of the finer points of how a Teleportarium operates. That's still worlds apart from having the knowledge, expertise, tools and processes to manufacture one. Don't forget, these guys are able to repair, or at least kludge/jury rig damaged Teleportarium. What I'm saying is that it's not entirely alien a thing the way a Tesla would be to say Archimedes. That still doesn't mean any old guy would be able to just figure it out.

In the end my advice to the OP is this. Via the fluff, no, archeotech isn't supposed to be something people can just figure out. It would probably be a Grand Endeavor all of it's own and would require some sort of unique circumstances like say a mostly intact STC printout, or a mothballed facility that was once used to create Teleportarium.

But what should you do? Do what's fun. If you and your players are having fun, then forget about fluff, alter the mechanics, and throw caution to the wind.

This is more or less what I've been saying. While it may be possible to conduct research (For decades or maybe even centuries) on the construction of a teleportarium, You're not gonna do it in a cave with a bucket of scraps! (Unless you're Tony Stark!). It will require an entire research mission dedicated to it and some VERY esoteric materials to get started! Replace Adamantium with steel? Not likely. When dealing with high tech devices, metallurgy is definitely a thing! From the Car mentioned above, to a Nuclear power plant, metallurgy is often the deciding factor between success and failure!

Tell her to prey she never airs that approach with me as GM.

That hiss of air when you opened the machine? Yeah, that's due to the underpressure inside, with the very specific mix of gasses that needed to be inside to preserve certain components. Even now, these components are busy reacting with the oxygen of your atmosphere.

Oh, you're talking notes? What sort of notes. Because this set of screws need to be aligned exactly as you found them, with under a degree of tolerance. You see, they're not actually scrws, so much as steel "containers" for the iridium helicies inside, needed for the aiming device.

and the list goes on.

If you don't know what you're documenting, odds are you will at some point miss something important, with a device as complex as a teleportarium,

You sound like the guy the hell party drove screaming from the room.

I'm certified to NASA standards when it comes to disassembling electronics (which is more useless than you'd think) and they beat me on occasion.

As far as the metallurgy goes it would depend on the function of the component in question.

You sound like the guy the hell party drove screaming from the room.

I'm certified to NASA standards when it comes to disassembling electronics (which is more useless than you'd think) and they beat me on occasion.

As far as the metallurgy goes it would depend on the function of the component in question.

I don't understand. What's your point? I'm not even trying to be rude - I just don't get what you're trying to say.

You sound like the guy the hell party drove screaming from the room.

I'm certified to NASA standards when it comes to disassembling electronics (which is more useless than you'd think) and they beat me on occasion.

As far as the metallurgy goes it would depend on the function of the component in question.

In particular, you cannot expect to copy a component and expect that component to work, if you don't know what sort of component it is. It's not just "a block of black plastic, probably intended to keep these two elements apart." - it's full of microcircutry. But who'd know if they weren't familiar with the idea of microcircuits?

Both the atmospheric requirement and the alignment issue are real btw.

As someone mentioned, most harddisks will stop working if opened and while I'm not terribly familiar with that exact design, I've worked with several devices that needed their noble-gas atmosphere, as well as several components that reacted measurably with the oxygen in the air - that effect almost botched my bachelor-project btw.

Similarly, I've used devices where the aligment of components (mirrors) was a major issue, to the point of a thousandth of a degree or more as I recall.

And that was just for seeing small groups of atoms, not the subatomic particles that a teleportarium might well require.

You need more than just Tech-Use and Forbidden Lore Archeotech. You need Trade (Shipwright) as well. AND you will need a downright *reckless* interest in taking it apart and becoming a heretek. AND you will need access to, somehow, a manufactorum and laboratorum and shipyard (doesn't need to be on a spaceship, it could be on a planet or something) where you have the capacity to essentially iterate the tools you need which don't exist in the imperium to figure out how to build the thing. AND you will need the capacity to do several Warp-based experiments. And you will need to do all of this without people getting upset / without too much death / without having the ad mech or the inquisition or rivals hunting you down.

It's certainly POSSIBLE, as long as you have someone who is actually willing to do revolutionary science and engineering and actually invent skills and techniques that do not actually currently exist , **** the repercussions, but it's not a few rolls. It's a Major Endeavor.

Exactly!

You need more than just Tech-Use and Forbidden Lore Archeotech. You need Trade (Shipwright) as well. AND you will need a downright *reckless* interest in taking it apart and becoming a heretek. AND you will need access to, somehow, a manufactorum and laboratorum and shipyard (doesn't need to be on a spaceship, it could be on a planet or something) where you have the capacity to essentially iterate the tools you need which don't exist in the imperium to figure out how to build the thing. AND you will need the capacity to do several Warp-based experiments. And you will need to do all of this without people getting upset / without too much death / without having the ad mech or the inquisition or rivals hunting you down.

It's certainly POSSIBLE, as long as you have someone who is actually willing to do revolutionary science and engineering and actually invent skills and techniques that do not actually currently exist , **** the repercussions, but it's not a few rolls. It's a Major Endeavor.

Oh god that's so hot, don't stop.