Blah blah blah... instead of giving advice on lists for once, I actually want to ask for advice. I'm quite a big fan of the XYAB list archetype right now. The B is the work horse and if it weren't for the unique pilots of the X, there's be very little reason to ever fly an X wing imo. That said, the B wing doesn't have any truly viable named pilots right now, keeping the X relevant, I kept trying to fit in Ibby, but too much else has to be sacrificed to get it to work, and she's too easily countered with just a simple ion turret.

Which brings me to the love for the Y wing... Board control is one of my favorite aspects of the game, and nobody does it better than the Y. Finally, I can't seem to step away from the green w/ PTL... I keep telling myself I'd be better off with a Blue with that 3rd attack die, but every time I do that, I find myself wanting the A wing denying my opponent the flank, or outflanking my opponent. Which means that I have a hard time creating a list that doesn't end up as XYAB...

My store champ list was Dutch w/ ICT, Dagger w/ AdvS, Red, Green w/ PTL. My biggest complaint with it though was that I kept wishing Dutch could shoot at PS2 after the rest of my squad had stripped tokens, allowing Dutch's damage, as well as his ion token, to go through. I've tried substituting him for either a gold or Roark, but I find myself missing his free TL, it couples really well with the AdvS Dagger who often uses his action to BR.

So, after a hiatus to play with the new features of the rebel transport, I'm back to building XYAB lists, but with limited play testing time before my next regional, I was hoping to come here for some thoughts/suggestions...

Garven

Dagger w/ AdvS

Green w/ PTL

Gold w/ ICT + R3A2

Yes, I know I could take a Blue instead of the Green, and the 3 dice is better than the 2, and Rebel Aces apparently confirms that A wings are 2 point over cost right now... Whatever... All I'll say is that my A wing is normally my MVP, and it could just be my play style, but I love that little bugger.

I haven't personally flown the Gold w/ ICT +R3A2, but I've seen it used to great effect, and seems to compliment my play style, so I figured it was a good addition. And to supplement the lack of extra action from Dutch, I put Garven in play. The Dagger is then the backbone of the squad.

The 2 minute flight strategy would be to fly with the A on the flank, coming in from the side, Garven in the center, and the Gold/Dagger on either side of Garven, within R2 of him obviously, but shooting up different asteroid gaps. That's typically how I play my XYAB lists - it puts a higher skill on making sure everyone is in range, and at the proper range (I don't want 1 person in R2 of all of the enemy, and everyone else at R3... likewise I don't want one person out of range) at the same time, but I have enough practice that I'm good at doing that (not perfect, but darn close).

So, it puts me at a disadvantage in the opening salvo in the case that I don't line up properly, but then afterwards, I have the positional advantage against swarms and formation flying groups. Against lone elites, I deny them arc dancing capabilities, so I'm rather happy with how my start and mid game go. The end game typically comes down to the Green vs. whatever is left, and that's when he becomes a monster... Against lower PS opponents, he can effectively arc dodge while getting pot shots in... and if it goes to time, I should get the win anyways... Against higher PS opponents, I can F+E to basically never take damage, and then know whether to spend the F on offense or not since I'm already done defending.

So, what are the obvious short comings, and solutions to that? Again, I realize that I could just slap 4 B wings in the list and have greater firepower, but less utility and survivability, so I don't consider that a really practical solution.

I don't play rebels much, and so don't have advice to give.

As an Imperial player, who flies TIEs and Bombers, flying in formation is important to me. It seems to me that a squad with radically different dials, an XYAB list would be nigh impossible to keep together very well (well,... possible for sure, but at an opportunity cost). So, it strikes me that a highly diverse squad has problems.

But what are the benefits? Does it make the squad more versatile, somehow?

I keep telling myself I'd be better off with a Blue with that 3rd attack die

Not any more.

A-wing's a good call.

ABXY (fixed that order for you) has at least 1 ship whose role is effective against every other ship in the game.

Another great thing about them is the Named Pilot economy: "Dutch", Garven, and Ibtisam are all powerhouses, particularly when working together. Of these, "Dutch" and Garven are the kings. I'd urge you to use at least these two.

You could write off the list there by adding Arvel if you wish, but I imagine you want at least a Turret on "Dutch".

Now, setting that aside, there is one thing that the A-Wing can do that nothing else in your fleet: Fire a Missile.

Against low-agility targets, few things are a superb as the Cluster Missile, but the Swarm fears the Assault Missile.

I'd start here.

And so : I would consider the following list

"Dutch" Vander

+ Ion Cannon Turret

Garven Dreis

Blue Squadron Pilot

+ Fire-Control Systems

Prototype Pilot

+ Assault Missiles

You could drop the ICT to Blaster, or the Assault to Concussion, to give the BSP an Advanced Sensor instead of a FCS.

I fly a squadron that's been doing well for me so far. I use wedge (with swarm tactics when refit comes online), Garven, Dutch with ion turret and a prototype.

its a list that works with synergies, capable of putting out a fair bit of damage through TL & Focus combos on the 2 xwings. I fancy a b wing but am struggling to get a time when i have spare funds match up with when they're available in the UK. I'm thinking when I do get one that I'll swap one in for wedge.

Cheerio,

Ben

I fly a squadron that's been doing well for me so far. I use wedge (with swarm tactics when refit comes online), Garven, Dutch with ion turret and a prototype.

its a list that works with synergies, capable of putting out a fair bit of damage through TL & Focus combos on the 2 xwings. I fancy a b wing but am struggling to get a time when i have spare funds match up with when they're available in the UK. I'm thinking when I do get one that I'll swap one in for wedge.

Cheerio,

Ben

This is actually very close to my initial starting point of the XYAB (I order them based on introduction order... besides ABXY sounds like an SNES controller =P )... I started with Wedge, Dutch, Biggs, Prototype, with some upgrades floating around, but I found the Prototype lackluster in every way... It couldn't close out a game, it couldn't effectively boost due to PS, and it could have deadly R1 F+TL shots. Thus the upgrade to the Green w/ PTL. Those 5 points are almost worth more than the ICT imo. Did I mention the prototype couldn't close out the game?

@Draco

I'm looking for a competitive list... Any list that has Arvel in it, or Dutch w/o a Turret is going to need a lot more of a write up on why it's competitive. That being said... for the 5 points on the Assault, I could upgrade back to the Green w/ PTL for the reasons stated above... And then I'd be sitting with Dutch w/ ICT, Garven, Blue w/ FCS, Green w/ PTL... Herm... That's very convincing... I will for sure have to give that a go.

I'd assuming Garven would be the primary target for most people, but he can likely get 2 F+TL shots off first, and by the time he dies off, the Blue should be set with his FCS... Herm... There's definitely some redundancy with the FCS, Garven, and Dutch, but I think it could be useful and open up the freedom of the squad a bit. I would lose the stress element of the R3-A2 droid, and the maneuverability of the AdvS... I wish there was a way to pick up that extra point, but alas there's not...

@Mikael

You don't play this list in formation. It's precisely an anti-formation list. It's easy enough to keep Garven/Dutch within R2 of someone, without needing to fly in formation. The benefits are that it's more of a jack of all trades list... a BBBB list would be extremely vunerable to ordnance and ions... an AAAA list would be too weak to punch through high agility ships... an XXXX list is too likely to be outmaneuvered... a YYYY list would be a sitting duck to large base ships... So each ship has a weakness (and strength)... Right now people seem to think B and X are the best because of their 3 attack, but I personally like splashing in maneuverability of the A to match up against interceptors, and a Y to make interceptors cringe.

ABXY (fixed that order for you) has at least 1 ship whose role is effective against every other ship in the game.

The OCD is strong in that one.

I'd like to explore what you're saying a bit more.

I do understand the utility of diversity - your squad being a jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none, rather than a tactically specialized one. Ostensibly, that makes your squad more adaptive, but does it really? It seems like this would be a pain in the aft section to keep it all together to prevent your opponent from carving off one part of your squad while the other part is busy maneuvering around.

When we're talking about roles, it seems like they are the following:

A-Wing: flanker

B-Wing: big guns

Y-Wing: uh... what would you call that... platform for turret?

X-Wing: jack-of-all.

(YT-1300 Turret)

(Z-95: cheapo gun)

(HWK: booster)

(Please correct me on all of these if you have a better typology.)

So, if you want a jack-of-all-trades list, woulnd't you actually want all X-Wings?

(Again, I fly Imperial. I'm just trying to understand this, and I'm asking questions looking to be informed.)

@Mikael

You don't play this list in formation. It's precisely an anti-formation list. It's easy enough to keep Garven/Dutch within R2 of someone, without needing to fly in formation. The benefits are that it's more of a jack of all trades list... a BBBB list would be extremely vunerable to ordnance and ions... an AAAA list would be too weak to punch through high agility ships... an XXXX list is too likely to be outmaneuvered... a YYYY list would be a sitting duck to large base ships... So each ship has a weakness (and strength)... Right now people seem to think B and X are the best because of their 3 attack, but I personally like splashing in maneuverability of the A to match up against interceptors, and a Y to make interceptors cringe.

Okay, so the opportunity cost here is the ability to make use of synergies. Do I have that right?

@ Mikael

X wings have started to fall out of favor with lots of people because they don't actually do anything well (besides shoot). They have a decent dial, but without an R2 are relatively limited when clearing stress... Their health is only so so, and with green dice being fickle, are too easy to kill in 2-3 shots... They have no mobility actions, so they can't chase anything down / arc dance... They don't have a 360 turret to prevent arc dancing... So really, they're kinda becoming only useful for their named characters special abilities.

@ Mikael

X wings have started to fall out of favor with lots of people because they don't actually do anything well (besides shoot). They have a decent dial, but without an R2 are relatively limited when clearing stress... Their health is only so so, and with green dice being fickle, are too easy to kill in 2-3 shots... They have no mobility actions, so they can't chase anything down / arc dance... They don't have a 360 turret to prevent arc dancing... So really, they're kinda becoming only useful for their named characters special abilities.

Gotcha, but isn't that the whole notion of the master-of-none flip-side to the jack-of-all? It seems like all of the others have big down-sides as well, while the X-Wing doesn't have a special Achilles heel.

When Aces comes out you can drop the Dagger to a Blue and stick the refit on the A. That will give you 4 points to play with. That means you can take outmaneuver or Predator on the Green to make it meaner.

Personally, I hate spending points on generic PS bumps, hence why I hate Daggers, and I apologize ahead of time if you didn't intend to use any of the Rebel Aces upgrades.

If no Rebel Aces and you want some help on the opening pass, you may want to consider dropping the Dagger and adding in some Flechette torpedoes on the B-Wing so you can stress out two ships.

I actually like your use of Dutch more than Dreis. A lot of the benefit of their abilities have to do with timing and Dutch's ability is so much easier to use and you are really never in danger of him dying to early in the combat phase before he passes his token. While it might be kind of nice if he was a bit lower PS I've found the benefits outweigh the negatives since using low PS pilots, its better to focus and give them a target lock from another source rather than the other way around. Going back to Dutch means you can drop the X-Wing entirely and just go with another Blue w/Advanced sensors (or Biggs if you want to keep an X in there).

PS. I don't like generic X-Wings either.

After a lot of messing around with the SNES concept, I eventually came to the following that gave me a bit of success (although, I will definitely revisit this once aces drops as I think it's a concept that will have new legs):

Red Squadron Pilot + R2 (PS4) = 24 pts.

Gold Squadron Pilot + R5 + Ion (PS2) = 24 pts.

Green Squadron Pilot + Deadeye + Homing (PS3) = 25 pts.

Dagger Squadron Pilot + Adv. Sensors (PS4) = 27 pts.

TOTAL = 100 pts.

Essentially, I got the high PS generics (half of a bloody dagger squad + an R2 on the red) in there to get shots on anything PS3 and below and be the heavy damage dealers, and the PS2 ion turret shoots last to hopefully ion and control whatever you've been able to strip tokens off of with the previous 3 shots. Now, the tricky one was the Green Squad Awing. Initially, I just went to my default of PTL and moved around those other 3 points in various ways. Most commonly, I just bumped the Red Squad up to Garven and made use of his focus passing. I actually haven't revisited this list since Imperial Aces dropped, so having 3 points for a hull upgrade someplace is a nice option. I tried stealthing the Awing, which helps, but just seemed to find more success using Garven's token passing. Regardless, I ended up settling on the Deadeye + Homing missile combo to try and get a decent alpha strike in on a high priority target or just to keep the Awing as an offensive threat for my opponent to think about chasing. I found this was the most effective way to disrupt my opponent and potentially get them out of their comfort zone. I usually despise torpedoes/missiles, but found that I just had more success with the list having the freedom of a 4 dice focus fueled attack when I wanted it (or needed it most) with the Awing. After Rebel Aces, I will revisit this list with multiple different combinations on the Green Squad to see if anything improves the overall potential of this list. Regardless, it is a fun list to fly and I should probably revisit it now that there are a lot of new options to play with from Imperial Aces and the Rebel Transport. Rebel Aces will just add more.

I would strongly suggest holding off on A-wings until Refit. They're really bad - their jousting value is currently halfway between a TIE Advanced and an X-wing. After Refit they'll make as good jousters as B-wings, but they will be tanks, which will take some tactical adjustment to optimize.

For now I think a Blue is much better than a PtL Green for the same cost. Regionals results seem to bear this out. A-wings see 0.37% of weighted average point usage usage in the Final Cut / Top Third.

ABXY (fixed that order for you) has at least 1 ship whose role is effective against every other ship in the game.

The OCD is strong in that one.

I'd like to explore what you're saying a bit more.

I do understand the utility of diversity - your squad being a jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none, rather than a tactically specialized one. Ostensibly, that makes your squad more adaptive, but does it really? It seems like this would be a pain in the aft section to keep it all together to prevent your opponent from carving off one part of your squad while the other part is busy maneuvering around.

When we're talking about roles, it seems like they are the following:

A-Wing: flanker

B-Wing: big guns

Y-Wing: uh... what would you call that... platform for turret?

X-Wing: jack-of-all.

(YT-1300 Turret)

(Z-95: cheapo gun)

(HWK: booster)

(Please correct me on all of these if you have a better typology.)

So, if you want a jack-of-all-trades list, woulnd't you actually want all X-Wings?

(Again, I fly Imperial. I'm just trying to understand this, and I'm asking questions looking to be informed.)

This list ISN'T a Jack of all Trades, Master of None list.

It's a Master of Each Trade list.

It's the A-Team. It's the Super-Friends.

Against every match-up, one of these ships will be the MVP and the rest will play catch-up. But, in each match-up, the MVP will be a different ship.

A-Wing: High-Speed High-Agility Trickster

B-Wing: The Brute. The Long-Range and Short-Range Monster.

Y-Wing: The Control platform. The High-Health harassment.

X-Wing: The High-Damage Mario

YT-1300: The Big Guy. Either Huge-Damage or Huge-Control.

Z-95: The Zergling

HWK: The Support platform.

This list ISN'T a Jack of all Trades, Master of None list.

It's a Master of Each Trade list.

It's the A-Team. It's the Super-Friends.

Against every match-up, one of these ships will be the MVP and the rest will play catch-up. But, in each match-up, the MVP will be a different ship.

Aha, I see!

So, does that mean that it doesn't have its own tactical doctrine? It's a reactionary squad in which its tactics are determined by the sort of squad the opponent fields?

Does that mean that it's own Achilles heel is the fact that 3/4 of the ships are not suited for the style of combat that the opponent has chosen by virtue of the nature of his own squad? So, in order to maximize the outcome, does the opponent needs to play his own squad's style to its fullest - while concentrating all fire on that one ship which is best geared towards the defeat of his tactical style?

Doesn't sound all that great to me.

I would strongly suggest holding off on A-wings until Refit. They're really bad - their jousting value is currently halfway between a TIE Advanced and an X-wing. After Refit they'll make as good jousters as B-wings, but they will be tanks, which will take some tactical adjustment to optimize.

For now I think a Blue is much better than a PtL Green for the same cost. Regionals results seem to bear this out. A-wings see 0.37% of weighted average point usage usage in the Final Cut / Top Third.

As you've said yourself, jousting is only part of the equation. A wings are not designed to be jousting. Likewise interceptors aren't designed to be jousting. Ships not designed to be straight forward tanks will suffer in a straight forward analysis. And I'll also point out how it's a self fulfilling prophecy... Avoid A wings because they're not represented... therefore they are not represented... And I should be contributing at least 2 of those A wing usages that you have on record Might as well go for a 3rd, right?

This list ISN'T a Jack of all Trades, Master of None list.

It's a Master of Each Trade list.

It's the A-Team. It's the Super-Friends.

Against every match-up, one of these ships will be the MVP and the rest will play catch-up. But, in each match-up, the MVP will be a different ship.

Aha, I see!

So, does that mean that it doesn't have its own tactical doctrine? It's a reactionary squad in which its tactics are determined by the sort of squad the opponent fields?

Does that mean that it's own Achilles heel is the fact that 3/4 of the ships are not suited for the style of combat that the opponent has chosen by virtue of the nature of his own squad? So, in order to maximize the outcome, does the opponent needs to play his own squad's style to its fullest - while concentrating all fire on that one ship which is best geared towards the defeat of his tactical style?

Doesn't sound all that great to me.

Well, to each his own. What makes this list fun for me to fly is that it makes me do exactly what you're talking about: be fluid and react to what's opposite the table. It means every game I fly using the list it plays out very differently and I have to be capable of playing it multiple ways. My original thoughts were that it could potentially make for a decent tournament list for that reason, but I never got comfortable enough with it...probably because of the limitations and issues people have already mentioned that went with the options at the time. Now, it has more options to play with (and getting more) so it may have some renewed life.

This list ISN'T a Jack of all Trades, Master of None list.

It's a Master of Each Trade list.

It's the A-Team. It's the Super-Friends.

Against every match-up, one of these ships will be the MVP and the rest will play catch-up. But, in each match-up, the MVP will be a different ship.

Aha, I see!

So, does that mean that it doesn't have its own tactical doctrine? It's a reactionary squad in which its tactics are determined by the sort of squad the opponent fields?

Does that mean that it's own Achilles heel is the fact that 3/4 of the ships are not suited for the style of combat that the opponent has chosen by virtue of the nature of his own squad? So, in order to maximize the outcome, does the opponent needs to play his own squad's style to its fullest - while concentrating all fire on that one ship which is best geared towards the defeat of his tactical style?

Doesn't sound all that great to me.

It's a very flexible squad. You don't have to rehearse specific openings and know when to use each specific one... You control where the engagement happens, but the opponent determines the angle of the engagement. He will have to turn and face one ship that scares him the most. But that means that he has to expose his entire flank to the rest of my squad, or split forces. So more often than not, it's a come from behind squad... Often times I've been down to 2 ships before I take out any of the opponents ships, but I'll pull off the "upset" because the XYAB list shines mid and late game, and struggles during the early game... Thus the request on figuring out how to shore up the early game.

I would strongly suggest holding off on A-wings until Refit. They're really bad - their jousting value is currently halfway between a TIE Advanced and an X-wing. After Refit they'll make as good jousters as B-wings, but they will be tanks, which will take some tactical adjustment to optimize.

For now I think a Blue is much better than a PtL Green for the same cost. Regionals results seem to bear this out. A-wings see 0.37% of weighted average point usage usage in the Final Cut / Top Third.

As you've said yourself, jousting is only part of the equation. A wings are not designed to be jousting. Likewise interceptors aren't designed to be jousting. Ships not designed to be straight forward tanks will suffer in a straight forward analysis. And I'll also point out how it's a self fulfilling prophecy... Avoid A wings because they're not represented... therefore they are not represented... And I should be contributing at least 2 of those A wing usages that you have on record Might as well go for a 3rd, right?

Stay the course Khyros! I love me some A-Wings. Jousting is only one style of play.

blah

Well, to each his own. What makes this list fun for me to fly is that it makes me do exactly what you're talking about: be fluid and react to what's opposite the table. It means every game I fly using the list it plays out very differently and I have to be capable of playing it multiple ways. My original thoughts were that it could potentially make for a decent tournament list for that reason, but I never got comfortable enough with it...probably because of the limitations and issues people have already mentioned that went with the options at the time. Now, it has more options to play with (and getting more) so it may have some renewed life.

blah

It's a very flexible squad. You don't have to rehearse specific openings and know when to use each specific one... You control where the engagement happens, but the opponent determines the angle of the engagement. He will have to turn and face one ship that scares him the most. But that means that he has to expose his entire flank to the rest of my squad, or split forces. So more often than not, it's a come from behind squad... Often times I've been down to 2 ships before I take out any of the opponents ships, but I'll pull off the "upset" because the XYAB list shines mid and late game, and struggles during the early game... Thus the request on figuring out how to shore up the early game.

Okay, I see what you guys are saying.

Right now, it seems like it's the conventional wisdom that there are a certain number of winning lists. These include: the TIE Swarm, HSF, and XXBB. Each of these also has an implied tactical doctrine, and a tactical key to success is exploiting the Achilles heel(s) of that tactical doctrine.

Do you think the XYAB has the potential of being a new 'winning list', in which case it's no longer really a reactionary squad, but one that's become an entrenched part of the meta?

After giving this a little bit of thought, once Rebel Aces hits, my first Awing loadout I'll try is probably going to look like this:

Green Squad + PTL + Predator + Refit + Test Pilot (PS3) = 23 pts.

That opens 2 points to use elsewhere meaning the droid options for the Red and Gold squads are much greater now...among some other things to try, as well. Tarn as a 1:1 replacement for the Red squad and giving him a R7 plus upgrading the R5 to R3-A2 on the Gold squad is just one example.

blah

Well, to each his own. What makes this list fun for me to fly is that it makes me do exactly what you're talking about: be fluid and react to what's opposite the table. It means every game I fly using the list it plays out very differently and I have to be capable of playing it multiple ways. My original thoughts were that it could potentially make for a decent tournament list for that reason, but I never got comfortable enough with it...probably because of the limitations and issues people have already mentioned that went with the options at the time. Now, it has more options to play with (and getting more) so it may have some renewed life.

blah

It's a very flexible squad. You don't have to rehearse specific openings and know when to use each specific one... You control where the engagement happens, but the opponent determines the angle of the engagement. He will have to turn and face one ship that scares him the most. But that means that he has to expose his entire flank to the rest of my squad, or split forces. So more often than not, it's a come from behind squad... Often times I've been down to 2 ships before I take out any of the opponents ships, but I'll pull off the "upset" because the XYAB list shines mid and late game, and struggles during the early game... Thus the request on figuring out how to shore up the early game.

Okay, I see what you guys are saying.

Right now, it seems like it's the conventional wisdom that there are a certain number of winning lists. These include: the TIE Swarm, HSF, and XXBB. Each of these also has an implied tactical doctrine, and a tactical key to success is exploiting the Achilles heel(s) of that tactical doctrine.

Do you think the XYAB has the potential of being a new 'winning list', in which case it's no longer really a reactionary squad, but one that's become an entrenched part of the meta?

I'm trying very hard to make it a competitive list. I feel like it's almost there, but you are giving up a significant firepower over an XXBB list for the trade off of better positioning and board control... So it requires a high degree of skill to fly well whereas an XXBB list might be more forgiving. So I don't know if I'm just not quite good enough with it, or if it's just not quite good enough to cut it.

I don't really know if I'd call it a reactionary list though (sorry if I did above)... It's more of an adaptive list, but you still force the opponent to play on your terms. An adaptive list would adapt to the enemy terms (I think the Defender will fall into this category).

Although it's not ABXY I've had fun with 2x Dagger with AS, Tarn, Green with Opportunist.

To me, Green is one of the best places for Opportunist since it shoots late enough you can often strip tokens before hand.

That being said, I think my abxy would be Garven, Dagger with AS, Green with Opportunist, Gold with ICT. This is 99 total points so there is room for a 1 point droid upgrade if wanted.

blah

Well, to each his own. What makes this list fun for me to fly is that it makes me do exactly what you're talking about: be fluid and react to what's opposite the table. It means every game I fly using the list it plays out very differently and I have to be capable of playing it multiple ways. My original thoughts were that it could potentially make for a decent tournament list for that reason, but I never got comfortable enough with it...probably because of the limitations and issues people have already mentioned that went with the options at the time. Now, it has more options to play with (and getting more) so it may have some renewed life.

blah

It's a very flexible squad. You don't have to rehearse specific openings and know when to use each specific one... You control where the engagement happens, but the opponent determines the angle of the engagement. He will have to turn and face one ship that scares him the most. But that means that he has to expose his entire flank to the rest of my squad, or split forces. So more often than not, it's a come from behind squad... Often times I've been down to 2 ships before I take out any of the opponents ships, but I'll pull off the "upset" because the XYAB list shines mid and late game, and struggles during the early game... Thus the request on figuring out how to shore up the early game.

Okay, I see what you guys are saying.

Right now, it seems like it's the conventional wisdom that there are a certain number of winning lists. These include: the TIE Swarm, HSF, and XXBB. Each of these also has an implied tactical doctrine, and a tactical key to success is exploiting the Achilles heel(s) of that tactical doctrine.

Do you think the XYAB has the potential of being a new 'winning list', in which case it's no longer really a reactionary squad, but one that's become an entrenched part of the meta?

I'm trying very hard to make it a competitive list. I feel like it's almost there, but you are giving up a significant firepower over an XXBB list for the trade off of better positioning and board control... So it requires a high degree of skill to fly well whereas an XXBB list might be more forgiving. So I don't know if I'm just not quite good enough with it, or if it's just not quite good enough to cut it.

I don't really know if I'd call it a reactionary list though (sorry if I did above)... It's more of an adaptive list, but you still force the opponent to play on your terms. An adaptive list would adapt to the enemy terms (I think the Defender will fall into this category).

I would actually say it's more of a reactionary list...but not in terms of reacting to how your opponent is flying per-se, just in what they're bringing to the table. Like, you set up different depending on what you're seeing opposite you...not so much you slow play to see how they fly and react...although, that can be effectively used depending on what they're flying. I'm sure that's probably confusing, but I know what I'm trying to say in my head, at least. lol

I'm trying very hard to make it a competitive list. I feel like it's almost there, but you are giving up a significant firepower over an XXBB list for the trade off of better positioning and board control... So it requires a high degree of skill to fly well whereas an XXBB list might be more forgiving. So I don't know if I'm just not quite good enough with it, or if it's just not quite good enough to cut it.

I don't really know if I'd call it a reactionary list though (sorry if I did above)... It's more of an adaptive list, but you still force the opponent to play on your terms. An adaptive list would adapt to the enemy terms (I think the Defender will fall into this category).

If it requires a high degree of skill, is it really adaptive? It seems to me that requiring a high degree of skill equates to being aware of certain things you shouldn't do. If there are many of those things, doesn't it make it less versatile and less adaptive?

(Again, I'm new to the abstract conceptualizing of this stuff, and just trying to understand. I ain't lookin' to take you down.)