How manny of you will choose a defender option before grabbing a firespray?

How manny of you will choose a defender option before grabbing a firespray?

Not a chance. Between the Crew slot, the added durability, and the rear arc the Defender will be the one sitting in the tacklebox wondering what happened.

I think they fill different roles. In fact a combo of the two may prove very interesting....

Rear arc ftw

How manny of you will choose a defender option before grabbing a firespray?

Not a chance. Between the Crew slot, the added durability, and the rear arc the Defender will be the one sitting in the tacklebox wondering what happened.

Between the extra agility, being a small ship and having a white k I'd say it close to a wash. The crew slot on the spray hasn't even made or broke it for me.

Rear arc ftw

A white K is just as good.

How manny of you will choose a defender option before grabbing a firespray?

Not a chance. Between the Crew slot, the added durability, and the rear arc the Defender will be the one sitting in the tacklebox wondering what happened.

Between the extra agility, being a small ship and having a white k I'd say it close to a wash. The crew slot on the spray hasn't even made or broke it for me.

I would choose the Defender, mostly due to childhood nostalgia and ease of flying a smaller ship than any actual combat performance differences

How manny of you will choose a defender option before grabbing a firespray?

Not a chance. Between the Crew slot, the added durability, and the rear arc the Defender will be the one sitting in the tacklebox wondering what happened.

Between the extra agility, being a small ship and having a white k I'd say it close to a wash. The crew slot on the spray hasn't even made or broke it for me.

The extra agility doesn't save as many hits. Especially with Recon Specialist included. Or Rebel Captive. Or the Eventual Mara Jade(She's gonna be NASTY!).

Mara will change a lot, lol don't anyone get confortable with the wave 4 meta . Wave 5 is really going to shake things up.

For now I think I'll stick to the Firespray.

More hp. Better firing arch. Better dial.

For the points, which is pretty close.. Rexlar I believe is 37, 1 pt less than kath.

I'll still get one, but really don't feel the need to get two, that is for sure. Unlike the Firespray I still need to get another.

No contest from the low-PS pilots: the Firespray wins, no contest. For one point over a Onyx Squadron Defender, you get a rear arc and an unquestionably more durable ship. I won't say the dial is better on the Firespray, as it fairs better as a Jouster than the Defender will. They play quite differently, because of the dials. I love the dials on both ships.

However, from the named pilot point of view, I'd say that overall, the Defender has the better pilot abilities for the cost, with the exception of Krassis, but Krassis requires him to have a secondary weapon, so his price is increased. The Defender already does what Boba Fett excels at: staying out of arc and dealing a punishing blow while also having a powerful card ability. Same pilot skill, 2 points less for the Defender, but again, the Firespray is more durable. Kath also has a great card ability, but again, performs best with an upgrade such as Rebel Captive or Marksmanship, increasing her cost even further. Brath and Vessery both have quite potent abilities and a fast (if not terrible agile) ship with high evasion.

Generics: Firespray

Named Pilots: I will have to give them a lot of play, but I think the Defender may have the edge here.

Haven't played much with a Defender, as I did not win one, but the guy who did is a friend of mine and it has seldom made an appearance other than out of "new shiny" syndrome.

The Firespray I think is a proven performer, the Defender has not established that for us as of yet, but as I said it has limited playtime at the moment in my local group of people.

Pro et Contra Defender and Firespray

Pros

It has a smaller base

Less vulnerable to focused fire (much smaller Range 1 area)

Less vulnerable to Collisions

It has more defensive dice

Higher ceiling on defensive variance

More likely to entirely dodge attacks

Gains more benefit from all defensive modifications

More Likely to survive early-game

More survivable against Swarms

It has a Barrel-Roll action

Greater ability to arc-jump

Less likely to be forced to collide

Option to improve offensive-range

It has an unconventional dial

White Koiogran

Able to Koiogran and maintain action

Able to Koiogran multiple times in a row

Able to Koiogran while stressed

Able to Koiogran and then execute a white maneuver with an action

Able to execute all 12 Banks/Turns

Enemies will be substantially less prepared for dealing with its positioning, particularly when also having to consider other ships in your fleet.

Enemies will be substantially less prepared for dealing with its positioning, as they are unpracticed against seeing its options

It is (slightly) cheaper

At the same Pilot Skill levels, the Firespray costs 1 point more.

The defender has a lower Pilot Skill option than does the Firespray, at 3 points cheaper.

The gulf of the Named Pilots increases in the Defender's favor. Vessery [6] is 35, Krassis [5] is 36, Brath [8] is 37, Kath [7] 38, and Fett [8] is 39.

The Defender has better Named Pilot abilities

Yes, this point is subjective.

Vessery gets free Target Locks, irrespective of weapons, when attacking (if friendly ships are target locked on the victim), compared to Krassis' 1/4 of a Free Target-Lock when attacking with secondary weapons.

Brath turns uncanceled [boom]s into [KABLAM]s. Kath turns canceled [KABLAM]s into Stress.

Brath wants to have damage come through the opponents defenses, which is facilitated by the vast majority of upgrades.

Kath wants your opponent to be rolling so well that they dodge her [KABLAM]s, but cannot reliably get [KABLAM]s without improving her odds of damaging the opponent, in turn hurting the effectiveness of her Pilot Ability.

Fett's ability doesn't have a Defender to go up against, and somehow still loses the matchup .

Cons

It has a smaller base

Smaller offensive range

Less distance on maneuvers

Less benefit from maneuverability actions (Boost/Barrel-Roll)

It has less total HP

Damage taken hurts more

Improved odds of dying early

It does not have an Evade action

Less survivability (on this front)

It does not have a Rear Arc

50% less area to acquire a target (before Large->Small conversion)

It does not have the Bomb, Torpedo, or Crew upgrade slots

Fewer build-options

The rear arc, and the lack of necessity to K-Turn in a normal dogfight make the Firespray hard to beat.

Some things I will definitely swap out the Defender for a Firespray. For example, a 40 pt BH with HLC will easily be replaced by a 40 pt Delta + HLC + Hull upgrade. The Defender gets way more shots with that HLC, and with the Hull upgrade, might even beat the Firespray in effective survivability. The downside is PS 1 vs PS3, which can be a bad for dying before shooting, but DOES mean the Defender won't be blocked as easily, as well as can be used as a blocker when needed. You could also go with the 39pt PS 3 Defender + HLC.

I also might just consider putting a 33pt Delta + Hull upgrade in a list in place of a Firespray, it sounds similarly survivable, and will be easier for it to get Range 1 shots. Firesprays can suffer from being out of combat when you try to bait the chase and the enemy doesn't follow, as well as miss out on shots DURING the chase when they go around corners. The Defender doesn't have this problem and the white K Turn will also provide a similar benefit that the rear arc gives you, mainly 1 round of fire with an action against an enemy who took a red k turn and has no action.

Im not sure about the named pilots taking over Kath yet, nor will I replace those ships in lists where I want to use Gunner or Rebel captive, which have plenty of uses. But I'd replace naked BH with Delta + Hull, and most certainly replace the Firespray as an HLC carrier.

The 41pt Delta + Engine + HLC gets an honorable mention as well, the only thing I don't like is not being able to pair it with 5 Tie Fighters, which the other setups let me do.

Pretty funny that Engine25 and I came up with almost the exact opposite conclusions, for differing reasons.

Generics: Firespray

Named Pilots: I will have to give them a lot of play, but I think the Defender may have the edge here.

I agree with you on the unique pilots, and I also don't think Onyx Squadron will see much play. Where I think it gets interesting is actually the Delta Squadron Pilot, though: because it's priced 3 points under the Bounty Hunter, it offers an interesting way to shave points. Or, to look at it from another perspective, for 33 points you can get a Bounty Hunter, Delta + Ion Cannon, or Delta + Hull Upgrade--trading the Hunter's PS for better control or better durability. There are contexts in which any of those three choices might be the "right" answer, but in a vacuum I'm not sure there's a good way to choose between them.

You can't fire secondary weapons out of the auxiliary arc

So a White K-Turning Defender will be able to fire his cannon upgrade behind him after a white K-turn and still be able to modify this attack. Missiles can also be fired backwards once the Defender executes the K-turn.

Also, the Defender is not obligated to stay out of the game for a bit as it turns around to get back in the fight (or K-turns for stress). Immediately it can face the center of the board again after the first pass, and an engine upgrade can let him catch other fighters that haven't reversed. Even if they've K-turned, the Defender still has an action. Aces can probably boost and barrel roll to get out of arc of the enemy but still remain in arc.

I can appreciate the robustness of the Firespray but I've never been motivated to take them for personal preference reasons (We don't need bounty hunter scum). On the other hand the TIE Defender is one of my favorite fighters in the expanded universe. However, I don't forsee taking more than 2 in a competitive setup.

No contest from the low-PS pilots: the Firespray wins, no contest. For one point over a Delta Squadron Defender, you get a rear arc and an unquestionably more durable ship. I won't say the dial is better on the Firespray, as it fairs better as a Jouster than the Defender will. They play quite differently, because of the dials. I love the dials on both ships.

However, from the named pilot point of view, I'd say that overall, the Defender has the better pilot abilities for the cost, with the exception of Krassis, but Krassis requires him to have a secondary weapon, so his price is increased. The Defender already does what Boba Fett excels at: staying out of arc and dealing a punishing blow while also having a powerful card ability. Same pilot skill, 2 points less for the Defender, but again, the Firespray is more durable. Kath also has a great card ability, but again, performs best with an upgrade such as Rebel Captive or Marksmanship, increasing her cost even further. Brath and Vessery both have quite potent abilities and a fast (if not terrible agile) ship with high evasion.

Generics: Firespray

Named Pilots: I will have to give them a lot of play, but I think the Defender may have the edge here.

I don't even need to play test it. I can just look and see that the Named pilots for the Defender are much superior. All the unique pilots for the Firespray are mediocre at best.

Krassis gets his re-roll on secondaries, but you end up using your back arc more anyway. So not very helpful. It would have been nice if his ability was simple: You can shoot secondary weapons out of your back arc.

Kath to me is probably the worst. You might trigger it once a game, if that. When it does trigger it kind of sucks. I rather give someone a crit than a stress token. Only thing saving her in my opinion is her PS 7.

Boba is meh... expensive and not a great ability.

Vessery has a built in FCS and his ability isn't that hard to trigger. Finally you get more synergy as Imperials. Has a decent PS as well.

Brath will be a monster with TO. You can load him up with a TL-Focus or double Focus. Predator is also a decent add on letting him have a TL "lite".

How manny of you will choose a defender option before grabbing a firespray?

Not a chance. Between the Crew slot, the added durability, and the rear arc the Defender will be the one sitting in the tacklebox wondering what happened.

Between the extra agility, being a small ship and having a white k I'd say it close to a wash. The crew slot on the spray hasn't even made or broke it for me.

The extra agility doesn't save as many hits. Especially with Recon Specialist included. Or Rebel Captive. Or the Eventual Mara Jade(She's gonna be NASTY!).

Maybe so but Mara on a big base will turn her into a lightning rod. It may prove successful but you may be forcing the other guy's hand to focus you down. The health and agility combo of the Firespray may keep it alive long enough to reek some havoc with that big base, but only time will tell.

I did forget, the Firespray has the evade action, making it a bit more survivable, especially when fleeing the battlefield.

Pro et Contra Defender and Firespray

Pros

It has a smaller base

Less vulnerable to focused fire (much smaller Range 1 area)

Less vulnerable to Collisions

It has more defensive dice

Higher ceiling on defensive variance

More likely to entirely dodge attacks

Gains more benefit from all defensive modifications

More Likely to survive early-game

More survivable against Swarms

It has a Barrel-Roll action

Greater ability to arc-jump

Less likely to be forced to collide

Option to improve offensive-range

It has an unconventional dial

White Koiogran

Able to Koiogran and maintain action

Able to Koiogran multiple times in a row

Able to Koiogran while stressed

Able to Koiogran and then execute a white maneuver with an action

Able to execute all 12 Banks/Turns

Enemies will be substantially less prepared for dealing with its positioning, particularly when also having to consider other ships in your fleet.

Enemies will be substantially less prepared for dealing with its positioning, as they are unpracticed against seeing its options

It is (slightly) cheaper

At the same Pilot Skill levels, the Firespray costs 1 point more.

The defender has a lower Pilot Skill option than does the Firespray, at 3 points cheaper.

The gulf of the Named Pilots increases in the Defender's favor. Vessery [6] is 35, Krassis [5] is 36, Brath [8] is 37, Kath [7] 38, and Fett [8] is 39.

The Defender has better Named Pilot abilities

Yes, this point is subjective.

Vessery gets free Target Locks, irrespective of weapons, when attacking (if friendly ships are target locked on the victim), compared to Krassis' 1/4 of a Free Target-Lock when attacking with secondary weapons.

Brath turns uncanceled [boom]s into [KABLAM]s. Kath turns canceled [KABLAM]s into Stress.

Brath wants to have damage come through the opponents defenses, which is facilitated by the vast majority of upgrades.

Kath wants your opponent to be rolling so well that they dodge her [KABLAM]s, but cannot reliably get [KABLAM]s without improving her odds of damaging the opponent, in turn hurting the effectiveness of her Pilot Ability.

Fett's ability doesn't have a Defender to go up against, and somehow still loses the matchup .

Cons

It has a smaller base

Smaller offensive range

Less distance on maneuvers

Less benefit from maneuverability actions (Boost/Barrel-Roll)

It has less total HP

Damage taken hurts more

Improved odds of dying early

It does not have an Evade action

Less survivability (on this front)

It does not have a Rear Arc

50% less area to acquire a target (before Large->Small conversion)

It does not have the Bomb, Torpedo, or Crew upgrade slots

Fewer build-options

You read my mind. The evade on the spray is only really good if your running ptl + recon.. Which is very fun lol

How manny of you will choose a defender option before grabbing a firespray?

Not a chance. Between the Crew slot, the added durability, and the rear arc the Defender will be the one sitting in the tacklebox wondering what happened.

Between the extra agility, being a small ship and having a white k I'd say it close to a wash. The crew slot on the spray hasn't even made or broke it for me.

The extra agility doesn't save as many hits. Especially with Recon Specialist included. Or Rebel Captive. Or the Eventual Mara Jade(She's gonna be NASTY!).

Maybe so but Mara on a big base will turn her into a lightning rod. It may prove successful but you may be forcing the other guy's hand to focus you down. The health and agility combo of the Firespray may keep it alive long enough to reek some havoc with that big base, but only time will tell.

All things considered, Lightning Rods you plan to use are a huge tactical advantage. See Biggs Darklighter. If my opponent has to choose to shoot my Firespray or my Phantom and ties I think I'm Ok with them going for the Firespray for a turn or two. Basically, if you haven't accounted for what your threats are in team building and opening plays you're missing a piece of the game. Controlling your opponent is huge.

How manny of you will choose a defender option before grabbing a firespray?

Not a chance. Between the Crew slot, the added durability, and the rear arc the Defender will be the one sitting in the tacklebox wondering what happened.

Between the extra agility, being a small ship and having a white k I'd say it close to a wash. The crew slot on the spray hasn't even made or broke it for me.

The extra agility doesn't save as many hits. Especially with Recon Specialist included. Or Rebel Captive. Or the Eventual Mara Jade(She's gonna be NASTY!).

Maybe so but Mara on a big base will turn her into a lightning rod. It may prove successful but you may be forcing the other guy's hand to focus you down. The health and agility combo of the Firespray may keep it alive long enough to reek some havoc with that big base, but only time will tell.

All things considered, Lightning Rods you plan to use are a huge tactical advantage. See Biggs Darklighter. If my opponent has to choose to shoot my Firespray or my Phantom and ties I think I'm Ok with them going for the Firespray for a turn or two. Basically, if you haven't accounted for what your threats are in team building and opening plays you're missing a piece of the game. Controlling your opponent is huge.

That's a lot of what I was getting at. If you go that way you should probably not overdo it on upgrades otherwise. The fewer points on your lightning rod the better, unless it will increase its survivability considerably.

No contest from the low-PS pilots: the Firespray wins, no contest. For one point over a Delta Squadron Defender, you get a rear arc and an unquestionably more durable ship. I won't say the dial is better on the Firespray, as it fairs better as a Jouster than the Defender will. They play quite differently, because of the dials. I love the dials on both ships.

However, from the named pilot point of view, I'd say that overall, the Defender has the better pilot abilities for the cost, with the exception of Krassis, but Krassis requires him to have a secondary weapon, so his price is increased. The Defender already does what Boba Fett excels at: staying out of arc and dealing a punishing blow while also having a powerful card ability. Same pilot skill, 2 points less for the Defender, but again, the Firespray is more durable. Kath also has a great card ability, but again, performs best with an upgrade such as Rebel Captive or Marksmanship, increasing her cost even further. Brath and Vessery both have quite potent abilities and a fast (if not terrible agile) ship with high evasion.

Generics: Firespray

Named Pilots: I will have to give them a lot of play, but I think the Defender may have the edge here.

I don't even need to play test it. I can just look and see that the Named pilots for the Defender are much superior. All the unique pilots for the Firespray are mediocre at best.

Krassis gets his re-roll on secondaries, but you end up using your back arc more anyway. So not very helpful. It would have been nice if his ability was simple: You can shoot secondary weapons out of your back arc.

Kath to me is probably the worst. You might trigger it once a game, if that. When it does trigger it kind of sucks. I rather give someone a crit than a stress token. Only thing saving her in my opinion is her PS 7.

Boba is meh... expensive and not a great ability.

Vessery has a built in FCS and his ability isn't that hard to trigger. Finally you get more synergy as Imperials. Has a decent PS as well.

Brath will be a monster with TO. You can load him up with a TL-Focus or double Focus. Predator is also a decent add on letting him have a TL "lite".

Kath is also great because she has the EPT slot and PS 7 means she can compete with the biggies if she takes VI. Same with Fet. Kath also gets better as more and more rebel scum get evade... canceling that extra hit is usually a crit.

Also... Why choose?

BH

BH

Defender

4 pts for a hull + init bid or 2 seismics on the BHs.