hey everyone,

We were playing some practice games with a friend of mine who won the phantom this past week.

I found some interesting idea's and tried them out.

Not deploying in a tight formation on one side with my rebels. I actually broke it into two flights, the first going down the side as normal the second in the middle, but then angling towards my first flight, protecting my rear of the first flight. This meant that if the phantom decloaked and went behind me I could shot it with my second flight.

Basically, from my 3 games, it appears you have to deal with the phantom and make sure all zones of fire are covered, so you can basically predict, or limit where it goes when it uncloaks.

Has anyone else came up with solid strategies against this thing yet? by the way, Ion cannon's didn't work because of the 4 dice while cloaked. It's just hard to hit that thing.

Thanks

The Phantom makes formation flying bad. Which in turn makes some of the most used Rebel ships a little worse off. For instance Biggs. If you spend 25 points on Biggs, you need to have a ship worth more than him (or more important than him) within RB1. This means you need to fly in formation, and formation flying is easy to predict and hard to do in a furball.

So my first recommendation would be to not fly formation.

Second recommendation is to bid for PS superiority. Whisper and Echo are only PS7 and 6 respectively. They have to spend their EPT on Veteran Instincts to make sure they move last, once everyone else has gone. Dont let them do this. Get yourself some high PS ships that are very manueverable. Something like Han with Expert Handleing. Make it a tough choice to decloak.

Turrent weapons also work. If you hit them with ions you have preety much locked them down. If they decloak to quickly get away then its eaiser to hit them again. Only the 2 bank cloaker would be able to rescue himself from a locked down forward flight. So one or two ywings or hawks would help (hawks would work if they got close when they got ioned)

Roark is worth looking at again, possibly in conjunction with a couple of ICT Y-wings. Being able to nobble it while it's decloaked, with a chance of killing it before it gets a shot off is probably the way to go.

Turrent weapons also work. If you hit them with ions you have preety much locked them down. If they decloak to quickly get away then its eaiser to hit them again. Only the 2 bank cloaker would be able to rescue himself from a locked down forward flight. So one or two ywings or hawks would help (hawks would work if they got close when they got ioned)

Ion is actually better than that. If they are ioned, they can't decloak at all, since you must reveal a dial to decloak.

Try Hobbie and the Stress Astro (R3-A2)

I've been running this post Imdar:

Hobbie

-R3-A2

Biggs

Blue

-Adv Sensors

Gold

-Ion Turret

The first pass is key and you have to keep your distance so he can't jump out of arc effectively. Once you start flinging stress onto the Phantom, the moves start to get a lot more predictable, and if you hit him with an Ion (while stressed) he's done since you'll catch him with his pants down. So far its worked pretty well, although usually after I eat at least 1 shot from the Phantom (disclaimer: I haven't had the opportunity to play against more than Whisper; no generics or Echo). It feels rough to play against but its a lot of points in one ship. Take it on the chin, don't get disheartened and carry on. Ironically, some of the Phantom players seemed a little put off by playing against someone who wasn't putt off by the Phantom. I haven't lost a game against one yet (admittedly one was super close).

Well before revealing the dial. But yes. As long as you keep a cloaked shiped ion, it has no bite. So a cheap yt-2400 with ion cannon and outrider has a good chance with the initial lock down. Then a ywing or hawk at close range.

Not deploying in a tight formation on one side with my rebels. I actually broke it into two flights, the first going down the side as normal the second in the middle, but then angling towards my first flight, protecting my rear of the first flight. This meant that if the phantom decloaked and went behind me I could shot it with my second flight.

Thach Weave baby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave

That something as ground-breaking (back then) applies in a miniature game about space ships today is downright spiffy.

I was going to say rock out falcon, y, or Hwk with ion. That would wreck some phantoms.

2x Rebel Operative (16pts) with Blaster Turret (4pts), Recon Specialist (3pts)

2x Z-95 Bandit Squadron Pilot (12pts)

1x YT Outer Rim Smuggler (27pts) (with rebel aces 2x refit a-wings)

Or

3x Y-W Gold Squadron Pilot (18pts) Flechette Torpedoes (2pts), Ion Cannon Turret (5pts)

2x Z-95 Bandit Squadron Pilot (12pts)

Not deploying in a tight formation on one side with my rebels. I actually broke it into two flights, the first going down the side as normal the second in the middle, but then angling towards my first flight, protecting my rear of the first flight. This meant that if the phantom decloaked and went behind me I could shot it with my second flight.

Thach Weave baby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave

That something as ground-breaking (back then) applies in a miniature game about space ships today is downright spiffy.

Why can I only "like" this post once?

The Thach Weave is the only maneuver I've found that really works for getting an arc against Phantoms. Basically you split your list into semi-independent flight elements that deploy at Range 2 from one another. Then, when it's clear that the flanking Phantom is going to engage one element, bank the two flight elements toward one another, and at least one of the elements will have a flanking shot against the Phantom.

That may not do it alone; if your attacking element has 3 Attack and a token each, then they'll do 0-2 damage to the Phantom. But if you can supplement it with Ion Cannon Turrets or Ion Pulse Missiles, Flechettes, HLC, etc., you can damage it more severely or lock it down for its next turn. And if the attacking element has a ship that attacks before the Phantom, then it's really in trouble.

Not deploying in a tight formation on one side with my rebels. I actually broke it into two flights, the first going down the side as normal the second in the middle, but then angling towards my first flight, protecting my rear of the first flight. This meant that if the phantom decloaked and went behind me I could shot it with my second flight.

Thach Weave baby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave

That something as ground-breaking (back then) applies in a miniature game about space ships today is downright spiffy.

I've been advocating this idea for a good while, but didn't know the actual aeronautic term for the tactic.

Last thought if you combo

Lieutenant Blount (17 pts) with Engine Upgrade (4pts), Ion pulse missile (3pts), Push the Limit (3pts)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18pts) Flechette Torpedoes (2pts), Ion Cannon Turret (5pts)

You should be rocking out some turns making the phantom unable to do anything.

Not deploying in a tight formation on one side with my rebels. I actually broke it into two flights, the first going down the side as normal the second in the middle, but then angling towards my first flight, protecting my rear of the first flight. This meant that if the phantom decloaked and went behind me I could shot it with my second flight.

Thach Weave baby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave

That something as ground-breaking (back then) applies in a miniature game about space ships today is downright spiffy.

Why can I only "like" this post once?

The Thach Weave is the only maneuver I've found that really works for getting an arc against Phantoms. Basically you split your list into semi-independent flight elements that deploy at Range 2 from one another. Then, when it's clear that the flanking Phantom is going to engage one element, bank the two flight elements toward one another, and at least one of the elements will have a flanking shot against the Phantom.

That may not do it alone; if your attacking element has 3 Attack and a token each, then they'll do 0-2 damage to the Phantom. But if you can supplement it with Ion Cannon Turrets or Ion Pulse Missiles, Flechettes, HLC, etc., you can damage it more severely or lock it down for its next turn. And if the attacking element has a ship that attacks before the Phantom, then it's really in trouble.

Word.

Also. A minor peeve,

I love how several players here call the Phantom OP (esp. since it haven't even entered the tournament circuit yet) and look for pilot Abilities/ships/combos/upgrades to counter it - when good flying works already.

Now - add those aforementioned upgrades/pilots, etc on top of good flying and let's see what happens y'all?

I love how several players here call the Phantom OP (esp. since it haven't even entered the tournament circuit yet) and look for pilot Abilities/ships/combos/upgrades to counter it - when good flying works already.

Now - add those aforementioned upgrades/pilots, etc on top of good flying and let's see what happens y'all?

The problem is that X-Wing was swiftly overtaken by Statisticians, and only now are the Tacticians starting to catch up.

Attempts to talk about the advantages of maneuverability get shot down with "Not if you fly well" from those who can only see getting outflown as being driven by your own blunders.

And then the Phantom comes along, and blows these people away, because they've been so busy with their pre-Caesarian strategies that they cannot cope with the new.

It's kind of sad, really.

Roark seems to be a pretty solid tactic. If you point your 3 other arcs to cover a wide area, 1 arc is bound to catch the Phantom. You just buff the ship with the arc to PS 12.

In general, I really like Roark for dealing with high maneuverability teams. Though this just could be bias as my Interceptors got romped the other day by a squad with Roark Sure, I won the rematch, but that first surprise when Turr gets shot down before Barrel Rolling was a big strategy shock!

I love how several players here call the Phantom OP (esp. since it haven't even entered the tournament circuit yet) and look for pilot Abilities/ships/combos/upgrades to counter it - when good flying works already.

Now - add those aforementioned upgrades/pilots, etc on top of good flying and let's see what happens y'all?

The problem is that X-Wing was swiftly overtaken by Statisticians, and only now are the Tacticians starting to catch up.

Attempts to talk about the advantages of maneuverability get shot down with "Not if you fly well" from those who can only see getting outflown as being driven by your own blunders.

And then the Phantom comes along, and blows these people away, because they've been so busy with their pre-Caesarian strategies that they cannot cope with the new.

It's kind of sad, really.

Then again, i don't think the Phantom is OP.

Ten nunb with VI, adv sensors and ion. He turns on a dime to keep the phantom in his sights. Though fcs is also an option

I love how several players here call the Phantom OP (esp. since it haven't even entered the tournament circuit yet) and look for pilot Abilities/ships/combos/upgrades to counter it - when good flying works already.

Now - add those aforementioned upgrades/pilots, etc on top of good flying and let's see what happens y'all?

The problem is that X-Wing was swiftly overtaken by Statisticians, and only now are the Tacticians starting to catch up.

Attempts to talk about the advantages of maneuverability get shot down with "Not if you fly well" from those who can only see getting outflown as being driven by your own blunders.

And then the Phantom comes along, and blows these people away, because they've been so busy with their pre-Caesarian strategies that they cannot cope with the new.

It's kind of sad, really.

That might have something to do with the necessary assumption when discussing strategy that you're playing an equal. Discussing what a better pilot can do against a worse one is meaningless.

Then again, i don't think the Phantom is OP.

This. This comment right here.

You are assuming that my ability to outfly you makes you a bad player.

I would say that it makes you an average player, as the study and discussion of tactics is so alien to this forum.

The only thread I have ever seen that discusses the issue is SableGryphon's Lambda 102.

Roark seems to be a pretty solid tactic. If you point your 3 other arcs to cover a wide area, 1 arc is bound to catch the Phantom. You just buff the ship with the arc to PS 12.

In general, I really like Roark for dealing with high maneuverability teams. Though this just could be bias as my Interceptors got romped the other day by a squad with Roark Sure, I won the rematch, but that first surprise when Turr gets shot down before Barrel Rolling was a big strategy shock!

Love Roark. I kill him first every chance I get.

I love how several players here call the Phantom OP (esp. since it haven't even entered the tournament circuit yet) and look for pilot Abilities/ships/combos/upgrades to counter it - when good flying works already.

Now - add those aforementioned upgrades/pilots, etc on top of good flying and let's see what happens y'all?

The problem is that X-Wing was swiftly overtaken by Statisticians, and only now are the Tacticians starting to catch up.

Attempts to talk about the advantages of maneuverability get shot down with "Not if you fly well" from those who can only see getting outflown as being driven by your own blunders.

And then the Phantom comes along, and blows these people away, because they've been so busy with their pre-Caesarian strategies that they cannot cope with the new.

It's kind of sad, really.

That might have something to do with the necessary assumption when discussing strategy that you're playing an equal. Discussing what a better pilot can do against a worse one is meaningless.

Then again, i don't think the Phantom is OP.

This. This comment right here.

You are assuming that my ability to outfly you makes you a bad player.

I would say that it makes you an average player, as the study and discussion of tactics is so alien to this forum.

The only thread I have ever seen that discusses the issue is SableGryphon's Lambda 102.

I plan on doing a lot more of that this summer. Pics/Diagrams are really required to discuss tactics on a forum and those are the things that take the most time to do well (well beyond well, crappy diagrams mean almost nothing and might be more confusing than none at all).

One very reliable option, IMHO, is any X-wing at PS 10+ with R3-A2. Or, alternately, R3-A2 with Roark. Rebel Captives may work for the Imperials, or any Huge ship jamming if you're in an Epic game.

Basically, the ability to deliver stress at PS 10+.

Almost all Phantom approaches rely on flickering. The Advanced Cloaking Device grants a free cloak action. If you stress it, it's not going to be able to recloak. That means you've got at least a full round of firing against a very expensive Z-95, and they won't have their decloak move next turn.

Most of that has the advantage of not being specifically tasked to deal with a Phantom - Wes+VI+R3-A2 is a pretty nasty ship in its own right, that does everything it needs to do just on the attack without caring whether it hits or not.

From a movement perspective, rather than list advice, forcing the Phantom to pull a Kturn really hurts them. You kind of want to force it on your terms and hopefully a turn sooner than your opponent expected. Example: on the first pass, if you are headed directly toward each other, you want to the shooting to start at range 2. Its going to hurt more but I've found it to be worth it. Next turn pull your farthest range Kturn (make sure your landing zone is clear). If the phantom pulls a Kturn it has a stress token so no recloaking. If it doesn't kturn (I've found this to be more likely since once the shooting starts people tend to slow down and try to make the most of the first pass) you'r on his six and you can start hammering him pretty freely or at least buy yourself some time.

Never Kturn with a phantom...they have turns and BRs for a reason. Much like interceptors, just don't do it. And Echo Kturns without taking a red...

Never Kturn with a phantom...they have turns and BRs for a reason. Much like interceptors, just don't do it. And Echo Kturns without taking a red...

Other than Echo (who still can't turn 180), Phantoms can't turn more than 90 degrees in a turn without an engine upgrade. If you pull it right they have to pull the Kturn or possibly take some free hits.

Never Kturn with a phantom...they have turns and BRs for a reason. Much like interceptors, just don't do it. And Echo Kturns without taking a red...

Other than Echo (who still can't turn 180), Phantoms can't turn more than 90 degrees in a turn without an engine upgrade. If you pull it right they have to pull the Kturn or possibly take some free hits.

Or just get out of the way so that nobody can fire.

Assuming you're at Range 2 (which was the original suggestion), that's anywhere from 3-5 ship lengths. There's not a ship out there that can guarantee a shot at a cloaked Phantom by K-turning. The Phantom decloaks right, turns right, barrel rolls right, and you're pretty much guaranteed to be out of the arc.

Patience is a virtue. Making poor choices rather than being willing to take a turn positioning and accepting no fire at all is a very good way to lose a Phantom. It hits hard, but it's fragile, and in any sort of traded shots scenario where it can't cloak it's going to come out on the short end of it.

Never Kturn with a phantom...they have turns and BRs for a reason. Much like interceptors, just don't do it. And Echo Kturns without taking a red...

Other than Echo (who still can't turn 180), Phantoms can't turn more than 90 degrees in a turn without an engine upgrade. If you pull it right they have to pull the Kturn or possibly take some free hits.

Buhalin beat me to it...They only need to turn 180 if they were facing you straight on to begin with. If they were jousting you to begin with they shouldn't ever get the chance to live through the round. They should also forgo a round of shooting if you "fool them" rather than try to chase you down.

And all this assumes no Advanced Sensors shenanigans. 5 bases worth of lateral movement before moving opens up a whole new can of worms.