I know you guys know that HLC have always been for killing shields and Tie-bugs off.

They are Laser-Machine guns basically.

That is why they do not do criticals.

Shields stop critts = HLC eat shields.

I personally give them re-rolls on blanks in Boss-Wars, because 4 Di is to weak for the intended use.

HLC bring a whole-lotta PEW!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XTPos-P1rgI#t=273

...me sowwie.

Again, the Heavy Laser Cannon isn't entirely incapable of crits. Check the FAQ. Only on the initial roll are any crits changed to hits. Any dice that are subsequently re-rolled to crits, via using say a Target Lock, will remain crits.

Thanks for the check. I have not been all into FAQ's.

Good call for a new guy!

Welcome.

That's why I'm not convinced the HLC is the only viable option for the Outrider title. A regular ion turret on a Y-Wing of HWK costs 5. You'd be paying 3 points in comparison to extend its range by 50%, consistently setting up movement predictions for your finishers.

The problem is not the cost of the turret - it's the cost of the base ship. If you do that on Dash, you're looking at 44 points. Guess a minimal -2400 saves about 4 points, so minimally it's 40 points compared to 23 for a Gold Squadron.

You simply cannot afford to have 40-50 points of your squadron turning out a maximum of 1 damage per turn.

If it cancels out the maneuverability of 40-50 points of the opponent's Phantom, B-Wing, Corran, Defender or other high profile pilot, why not?

The damage may only be 1, the certainty of knowing where your opponent will be? Priceless.

It is my opinion that the Outrider Title is good but the "perfect" cannon doesnt exist yet.

In an ideal world there will come a 5 cost, range 1-3, 3 atk cannon with some bonus.

That said, it is very possible to get value out of your 12 pt hlc turret. The fact that you dont have be facing your enemy is huge. The turret allows you to move away from your enemy and maintain range 3 and blast them with an hlc shot while they have to face your 3 agi dice. It also means less time koiogran turning.

I think the "no primarys" was overkill and should have been there but i dont really think it is overpriced.

In an ideal world there will come a 5 cost, range 1-3, 3 atk cannon with some bonus.

I think the "no primarys" was overkill and should have been there but i dont really think it is overpriced.

The bonus being "pew, you die"? .

No primaries is not overkill because then you would essentially give a player to switch at will between weapons, HLC at range 2 & 3 and primary at range 1, don't forget that the primary weapon on a YT-2400 is a turret.

I think the YT2400 dial will be better than the falcon.

*mic drop*

I think the YT2400 dial will be better than the falcon.

*mic drop*

It is my opinion that the Outrider Title is good but the "perfect" cannon doesnt exist yet.

In an ideal world there will come a 5 cost, range 1-3, 3 atk cannon with some bonus

Ion Cannon says hiiiii

It is my opinion that the Outrider Title is good but the "perfect" cannon doesnt exist yet.

In an ideal world there will come a 5 cost, range 1-3, 3 atk cannon with some bonus

Ion Cannon says hiiiii

Damage is way too low. We're talking the Blaster Turret of Cannons, but actually good.

I can see running the cheapest YT-2400 with outrider and ion cannon and a bunch of A-wings with outmaneuver. That could be fun. Though I guess if they are ioned you don't necessarily need A-wings though it would allow you to fit more of them in.

On the YT-2400, Heavy Laser Cannon on its own is superior to HLC + Outrider.

Yes, having a 4-attack crit-less donut around your ship seems nice.

However, is that really better than having 4 attack as a cone, surrounded by a 2 attack turret, and 3 attack at Range 1? And a 5 point discount?

Moreover, is the HLC-Outrider combo seriously 12 points of upgrade nice? That's an entire Bandit Squad pilot.

I think both have a place. But I do think the Outrider Title costs too much. That said, an Outrider with HLC and title is much better than a titless cannonless outrider and a Z-95.

Basically, I would say, just HLC is better for the points, but both will see play.

well i think that the title cost are well made 5 points for a title that allows u to 360 degree fire with heavy laser cannon is OP ;P u can evne make a 360 firing huge ionizing ship aswell man how much do i hate those 360 degree firing nabs >.>

I think the YT2400 dial will be better than the falcon.

*mic drop*

Explain. This seems impossible.

I have nothing to base it on other than the fact the 2400 is fancier and I would imagine a nimbler ship. Is this not true in the Star Wars Universe?

I think the YT2400 dial will be better than the falcon.

*mic drop*

Explain. This seems impossible.

I have nothing to base it on other than the fact the 2400 is fancier and I would imagine a nimbler ship. Is this not true in the Star Wars Universe?

I think the YT2400 dial will be better than the falcon.

*mic drop*

Explain. This seems impossible.

I have nothing to base it on other than the fact the 2400 is fancier and I would imagine a nimbler ship. Is this not true in the Star Wars Universe?

I can't imagine a better dial than the Falcons. The Outrider can't be faster, so it can't have a 5 forward. It doesn't appear to have any more green on a significant level, and the Falcon has one of the best dials in the game.

I was hoping for a falcon dial with moar greens. Maybe make 2 banks green?

I think the YT2400 dial will be better than the falcon.

*mic drop*

Explain. This seems impossible.

I have nothing to base it on other than the fact the 2400 is fancier and I would imagine a nimbler ship. Is this not true in the Star Wars Universe?

I can't imagine a better dial than the Falcons. The Outrider can't be faster, so it can't have a 5 forward. It doesn't appear to have any more green on a significant level, and the Falcon has one of the best dials in the game.

The Wookiee Wiki info seems to make that debatable.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Millennium_Falcon

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Outrider

In atmosphere, it seems the Outrider is faster, but light speed goes to the Falcon.

I think the YT2400 dial will be better than the falcon.

*mic drop*

Explain. This seems impossible.

I have nothing to base it on other than the fact the 2400 is fancier and I would imagine a nimbler ship. Is this not true in the Star Wars Universe?

I can't imagine a better dial than the Falcons. The Outrider can't be faster, so it can't have a 5 forward. It doesn't appear to have any more green on a significant level, and the Falcon has one of the best dials in the game.

The Wookiee Wiki info seems to make that debatable.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Millennium_Falcon

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Outrider

In atmosphere, it seems the Outrider is faster, but light speed goes to the Falcon.

I think the YT2400 dial will be better than the falcon.

*mic drop*

Explain. This seems impossible.

I have nothing to base it on other than the fact the 2400 is fancier and I would imagine a nimbler ship. Is this not true in the Star Wars Universe?

I can't imagine a better dial than the Falcons. The Outrider can't be faster, so it can't have a 5 forward. It doesn't appear to have any more green on a significant level, and the Falcon has one of the best dials in the game.

The Wookiee Wiki info seems to make that debatable.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Millennium_Falcon

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Outrider

In atmosphere, it seems the Outrider is faster, but light speed goes to the Falcon.

Yes, but we're talking the rivalry between Han and Dash here. Giving the Outrider a 5 forward would be... Wrong. Hell, Barrel Rolling forward on a 4 forward bothers me...

I mean I'm all about Han. He is my boy after all, but Dash's ship was no slouch by any means in comparison.

I think the YT2400 dial will be better than the falcon.

*mic drop*

Explain. This seems impossible.

I have nothing to base it on other than the fact the 2400 is fancier and I would imagine a nimbler ship. Is this not true in the Star Wars Universe?

I can't imagine a better dial than the Falcons. The Outrider can't be faster, so it can't have a 5 forward. It doesn't appear to have any more green on a significant level, and the Falcon has one of the best dials in the game.

The Wookiee Wiki info seems to make that debatable.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Millennium_Falcon

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Outrider

In atmosphere, it seems the Outrider is faster, but light speed goes to the Falcon.

The problem with giving it a 5 forward, is with its large base, combined with a barrel roll, means you can advanced the front edge of the base 8.5 small bases. This is equal to phantoms, and slightly faster than interceptors and A-wings.

I am positive they will not make a turreted, large base ship the FASTEST ship in the rebel alliance, and tied for the fastest ship in the game. Especially because if you take engine upgrade and PtL it could advance 11.5 bases forward and leave Soontir Fel and his ilk in the dust.

It's NOT gonna happen.

anyway, the build I'm currently looking at is:

49: Dash w/ HLC, Predator, Recon Specialist

He can barrel roll if he needs to, but will usually pick up 2 focuses instead. Between focus and a re-roll he'll deliver some pretty reliable damage, even from his turret. You could swap predator for PtL, but I'd like to keep his maneuvering options open. And at 49 points, there's plenty of room for a falcon or a couple of Bs.

why is everyone assuming that the HLC is the only option here?

i hate ion cannons, those **** ywings always mess with my squints.

now throw in a range 3 ion with no bonus defense die at range 3, thats gonna ruin someones day, maybe even more so than a HLC, if you can catch a high point value ship and keep hitting it to keep it out of effective combat, might as well be dead.

i would go with ion myself, cheaper and can be just as effective especially if you catch a ship that stressed.

why is everyone assuming that the HLC is the only option here?

i hate ion cannons, those **** ywings always mess with my squints.

now throw in a range 3 ion with no bonus defense die at range 3, thats gonna ruin someones day, maybe even more so than a HLC, if you can catch a high point value ship and keep hitting it to keep it out of effective combat, might as well be dead.

i would go with ion myself, cheaper and can be just as effective especially if you catch a ship that stressed.

I just can't have half of my fleet doing only 1 damage per turn. It might work for others but I need that ship to be hurting people every turn (like making them deader and not just floating around). I think the supreme maneuverability I think it is likely to have combined with Dash's ability will make for one squirrely yet tanky ship. If the opponent chases him I think you've gone a long way towards winning the game.

why is everyone assuming that the HLC is the only option here?

i hate ion cannons, those **** ywings always mess with my squints.

now throw in a range 3 ion with no bonus defense die at range 3, thats gonna ruin someones day, maybe even more so than a HLC, if you can catch a high point value ship and keep hitting it to keep it out of effective combat, might as well be dead.

i would go with ion myself, cheaper and can be just as effective especially if you catch a ship that stressed.

why is everyone assuming that the HLC is the only option here?

i hate ion cannons, those **** ywings always mess with my squints.

now throw in a range 3 ion with no bonus defense die at range 3, thats gonna ruin someones day, maybe even more so than a HLC, if you can catch a high point value ship and keep hitting it to keep it out of effective combat, might as well be dead.

i would go with ion myself, cheaper and can be just as effective especially if you catch a ship that stressed.

Maybe one of the other named pilots will have an ability to make the ion cannon more useful but I think it's best as a fixed emplacement so the ship has the ability to hammer some damage home when needed.

*edit* Double ninja'd! **** phantoms...

I do like that Outride + HLC gives you the gameplay of keeping your distance, while still getting amazing dice. Range 3 becomes your ideal home, as it gives you a bonus, and not them. Further, you never need to debate range 1 for even a second, since it is always bad for you. I know I've definitely had some range 1 scuffles backfire on me.

It may not be worth it every time, but there is definitely room for it. Ions and/or blockers will be a good pair, letting you keep R3 more easily.

I am positive they will not make a turreted, large base ship the FASTEST ship in the rebel alliance, and tied for the fastest ship in the game. Especially because if you take engine upgrade and PtL it could advance 11.5 bases forward and leave Soontir Fel and his ilk in the dust.

It's NOT gonna happen.

Man, it's a real darn shame that the WotC Star Wars Miniatures forums have been totally deleted.

I'd love to point out a post where someone told me with absolutes that something about an upcoming release was not going to happen and was later proven wrong.

I'm not saying that's going to happen in this case. This just totally reminded me of it.

I've played enough games based on licensed properties for long enough that I understand that a balance needs to be drawn between character/statistical accuracy and system/gameplay.

I just wouldn't make any absolute statements on the matter.

I'm pointing out that, according to Wookiee, the Outrider is faster than the Falcon by a bit, in atmosphere, and the Falcon's got it beat in light speed. Whether or not FFG feels the need to take this into account when making the game is something I can only guess about.

I am positive they will not make a turreted, large base ship the FASTEST ship in the rebel alliance, and tied for the fastest ship in the game. Especially because if you take engine upgrade and PtL it could advance 11.5 bases forward and leave Soontir Fel and his ilk in the dust.

It's NOT gonna happen.

Man, it's a real darn shame that the WotC Star Wars Miniatures forums have been totally deleted.

I'd love to point out a post where someone told me with absolutes that something about an upcoming release was not going to happen and was later proven wrong.

I'm not saying that's going to happen in this case. This just totally reminded me of it.

I've played enough games based on licensed properties for long enough that I understand that a balance needs to be drawn between character/statistical accuracy and system/gameplay.

I just wouldn't make any absolute statements on the matter.

I'm pointing out that, according to Wookiee, the Outrider is faster than the Falcon by a bit, in atmosphere, and the Falcon's got it beat in light speed. Whether or not FFG feels the need to take this into account when making the game is something I can only guess about.

Fair enough. Hell, I've made absolute statements about this game before and turned out to be wrong. Clearly I won't shy away from it

But, technically speaking, the Outrider is faster than the falcon in this game (assuming it has a 4 forward, which we can all safely do). The falcon can advance 6 units forward and the outrider does 7.5 with its barrel roll. With PtL and an engine upgrade it hits 9.5, whereas the falcon tops out at 8 if it takes an engine upgrade.

So the outrider advances further with a bit of lateral movement even if its dial doesn't reflect it.

On the YT-2400, Heavy Laser Cannon on its own is superior to HLC + Outrider.

Yes, having a 4-attack crit-less donut around your ship seems nice.

However, is that really better than having 4 attack as a cone, surrounded by a 2 attack turret, and 3 attack at Range 1? And a 5 point discount?

Moreover, is the HLC-Outrider combo seriously 12 points of upgrade nice? That's an entire Bandit Squad pilot.

I think that highly depends on the dial. What if it is really hard to get people in arc with this ship? We'll just have to see what the best build will be. You could easily be right.