On the YT-2400, Heavy Laser Cannon on its own is superior to HLC + Outrider.

Yes, having a 4-attack crit-less donut around your ship seems nice.

However, is that really better than having 4 attack as a cone, surrounded by a 2 attack turret, and 3 attack at Range 1? And a 5 point discount?

Moreover, is the HLC-Outrider combo seriously 12 points of upgrade nice? That's an entire Bandit Squad pilot.

Maybe I'm not thinking about it the right way but if you're not going to make the HLC a turret why are you bothering with the YT2400 in the first place? Isn't a Bwing a better HLC platform if you're just using the front arc?

b-wing is not really better. The 2400 can take 2 more damage, and has 2 agility, so it is way more tanky than the b. Also the barrel roll is more effective(sometimes) on a large base ship. Also b can currently not take crew.

Just a thought. I don't think the range 1 dead zone will be that bad to deal with. It will just require a bit of modification of your flying. Instead of facing directly at your opponent, just deploy facing sideways and fly perpendicular to your opponent and then start flying directly away. If it has anything like the dial of the Falcon your opponent is going to have a tough time catching up. Then if they get close you can fall back on the barrel roll.

Of course, we haven't seen the dial yet, and that's pretty important when we're talking about the HLC.

Didn't we learn this lesson with the shuttle?

On the YT-2400, Heavy Laser Cannon on its own is superior to HLC + Outrider.

Yes, having a 4-attack crit-less donut around your ship seems nice.

However, is that really better than having 4 attack as a cone, surrounded by a 2 attack turret, and 3 attack at Range 1? And a 5 point discount?

Moreover, is the HLC-Outrider combo seriously 12 points of upgrade nice? That's an entire Bandit Squad pilot.

Maybe I'm not thinking about it the right way but if you're not going to make the HLC a turret why are you bothering with the YT2400 in the first place? Isn't a Bwing a better HLC platform if you're just using the front arc?

It'll be interesting to see how much cheaper the base YT2400 is than the ORS. Even now, Dash is a full 6 points cheaper than Chewie. Sticking a HLC on a cheap YT2400 could be better than a B-Wing just because its more maneuverable and more tanky but it all really comes down to cost.

Almost a 100% chance that the basic 2400 (Wild Spacer?) is MORE expensive than the ORS. The 2400 has another point of Pilot Skill, better hull/shield ratio (with the same total), an additional action, AND higher agility. That will undoubtedly put it at a higher buy-in price, but not by much. I'm guessing 28-30 points.

I wouldn't disagree with that statement. You just never know. Right now using Dash and the ORS as bookends we only have 9 points of variation to deal with. It'll be interesting to see what they do with it.

It might be cheap enough where you can take two cheap YT2400 with HLC and take a solid support ship (that might just be me being greedy ). If you use your 28 point example that gives you 30 points to play with after you take two YT2400s w/hlc which would be sweet.

A low cost TY 2400 (based on pilot) with HLC and Outrider + Airen Cracken would be pretty nice, and hopefully quite cost effective.

On the surface, both builds are viable, particularly when you start talking significant point differences. I am thinking the dial, if it's anything close to the YT-1300 and/or Firespray, will be just fine. The question will be, does Dash and his wonderful ignoring of obstacles allow him to stay at range 2-3 consistently to avoid having to use his action just to barrel roll into offensive range? I am also thinking (heresy, I know) that the built-in barrel roll may make the YT-2400 the best platform yet for an Autoblaster since the large base gets you such flexibility for moving to range 1 and there is no downside (loss of offensive dice) when using the Autoblaster on a 2 Attack ship.

Of course, we haven't seen the dial yet, and that's pretty important when we're talking about the HLC.

This.

Didn't we learn this lesson with the shuttle?

The barrel-roll capabilities will make up for a terrible dial. If it has at least 1 non-red turn and at least 1 non-red bank, it'l be really maneuverable.

the YT-2400 was on a par with the Falcon for maneuvers. I would expect it to have everything the YT has, maybe not the 1 Hard if there is any change made.

That said, an Outrider with HLC and title is much better than a titless cannonless outrider and a Z-95.

Dude, the word you're making up would be "titleless." What you're saying means something entirely different...

Anyway, I agree with the OP. I think a forward firing HLC backed up by a 2 attack turret is good enough. Of course, we do need to see the dial to be completely sure, but I think those will be easy to save 5 points.

Of course, we haven't seen the dial yet, and that's pretty important when we're talking about the HLC.

This.

Didn't we learn this lesson with the shuttle?

No, we didn't. What we learned from the hyperbolic reaction to the Shuttle was… oh, look, a squirrel!

That said, an Outrider with HLC and title is much better than a titless cannonless outrider and a Z-95.

Dude, the word you're making up would be "titleless." What you're saying means something entirely different...

Anyway, I agree with the OP. I think a forward firing HLC backed up by a 2 attack turret is good enough. Of course, we do need to see the dial to be completely sure, but I think those will be easy to save 5 points.

**** autocorrect. Not editing this one.

That said, an Outrider with HLC and title is much better than a titless cannonless outrider and a Z-95.

Dude, the word you're making up would be "titleless." What you're saying means something entirely different...

Anyway, I agree with the OP. I think a forward firing HLC backed up by a 2 attack turret is good enough. Of course, we do need to see the dial to be completely sure, but I think those will be easy to save 5 points.

**** autocorrect. Not editing this one.

You use the word "Titless" often enough to be a default in your autocorrect?

That's not an unpopular opinion at all as I arrived at the same conclusion.....

What's popular is not always right. What's right is not always popular.

One way or the other, the two of you thinking of it does not qualify it as popular or unpopular.

And I can't even give my vox to this populi since I don't run numbers on games.

That said, an Outrider with HLC and title is much better than a titless cannonless outrider and a Z-95.

Dude, the word you're making up would be "titleless." What you're saying means something entirely different...

Anyway, I agree with the OP. I think a forward firing HLC backed up by a 2 attack turret is good enough. Of course, we do need to see the dial to be completely sure, but I think those will be easy to save 5 points.

**** autocorrect. Not editing this one.

You use the word "Titless" often enough to be a default in your autocorrect?

A raange 3 ion cannon turret for 8 points however...

Hlc turret for 12 is expensive because it also costs you your range 1. Sure, an ion only deals one damage but it should play merry havoc with many Phantom plans.

That may be, however since it can barrel roll, there's no reason to ever be in range 1. Each range is 2.5 bases. a 2 base ship taking a BR would move 3 bases (one for the move,e 2 for the base), effectively putting you out of range 1 of SOMETHING. It may not be the target you were hoping to shoot, but it's better than not getting a shot

Since Krassis + HLC + recon specialist=46 points is pretty good, let's compare to

Dash + HLC + recon specialist + predator = 49 points.

Predator gives Krassis' re-roll, plus almost compensates for 1 less attack die at range 1 front plus the rear. Dash can fire sideways, has his ability, can barrel roll, and is 2 PS higher. All that for only 3 points. Hmmmmm...

Since Krassis + HLC + recon specialist=46 points is pretty good, let's compare to

Dash + HLC + recon specialist + predator = 49 points.

Predator gives Krassis' re-roll, plus almost compensates for 1 less attack die at range 1 front plus the rear. Dash can fire sideways, has his ability, can barrel roll, and is 2 PS higher. All that for only 3 points. Hmmmmm...

I'm a huge fan of running that Krassis build with a pair of squints....... I'll definitely be trying that out.

Of course, we haven't seen the dial yet, and that's pretty important when we're talking about the HLC.

This.

Didn't we learn this lesson with the shuttle?

the dial on the shuttle in some ways makes it the best platform for HLC (at least in terms of the first engagement, which just so happens to be the most important part of the game)

I know you guys know that HLC have always been for killing shields and Tie-bugs off.

They are Laser-Machine guns basically.

That is why they do not do criticals.

Shields stop critts = HLC eat shields.

I personally give them re-rolls on blanks in Boss-Wars, because 4 Di is to weak for the intended use.

HLC bring a whole-lotta PEW!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XTPos-P1rgI#t=273

...me sowwie.

I think it will depend a lot on dial and final cost.

Since Krassis + HLC + recon specialist=46 points is pretty good, let's compare to

Dash + HLC + recon specialist + predator = 49 points.

Predator gives Krassis' re-roll, plus almost compensates for 1 less attack die at range 1 front plus the rear. Dash can fire sideways, has his ability, can barrel roll, and is 2 PS higher. All that for only 3 points. Hmmmmm...

The problem with the HLC on the Firespray is you are only able to shoot it in front of you. So you get maybe two initial shots with it (if your lucky), then you end up shooting out your back arc for 3 or 4 turns. Now you can combat this by K-turning a whole bunch, but then you are losing your actions. For the price, I rather just take a Gunner on the FS and know that I'll be dishing out damage ever turn I can shoot something.

We will have to see how good the dial is on the YT-2400. If its Falcon like (1-sharp turns), you should be able to keep things in your front arc a lot easier than a FS. Especially with a barrel-roll.

I know you guys know that HLC have always been for killing shields and Tie-bugs off.

They are Laser-Machine guns basically.

That is why they do not do criticals.

Shields stop critts = HLC eat shields.

I personally give them re-rolls on blanks in Boss-Wars, because 4 Di is to weak for the intended use.

HLC bring a whole-lotta PEW!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XTPos-P1rgI#t=273

...me sowwie.

Again, the Heavy Laser Cannon isn't entirely incapable of crits. Check the FAQ. Only on the initial roll are any crits changed to hits. Any dice that are subsequently re-rolled to crits, via using say a Target Lock, will remain crits.

If the dial allows, I still want to try this squad sometime:

Dash Rendar

w/ Nien Nunb, Outrider, HLC, Engine Upgrade, PTL and Cluster Missiles.

60 points for the entire team, but for those 60 points you get:

PS7

Boost plus Barrel Roll

Clear stress on any straight.

Ignore terrain for movement/actions, while keeping it for defense.

10 health with two defense dice

4-dice attacks at range 3, with defense bonuses against primary weapons

He may have trouble against ordinance, HLCs and stress-inflicting effects. But against squads that rely on formation flight, he should be able to fly rings around the board and make strafing runs while whittling them with the HLC.

A raange 3 ion cannon turret for 8 points however...

Hlc turret for 12 is expensive because it also costs you your range 1. Sure, an ion only deals one damage but it should play merry havoc with many Phantom plans.

That may be, however since it can barrel roll, there's no reason to ever be in range 1. Each range is 2.5 bases. a 2 base ship taking a BR would move 3 bases (one for the move,e 2 for the base), effectively putting you out of range 1 of SOMETHING. It may not be the target you were hoping to shoot, but it's better than not getting a shot

I know, but that means you have to barrel roll as an action, when you might not want to do that. Especially now that people are all hyped up on the elusive Phantom you might prefer to shoot an Ion Turret at range 1-3 (which is new, the regular turret shoots at range 2) with focus, 3F being better than 4 dice naked.

Is there someone who can do the math on the damage differential between the regular 2 attack of the YT-2400 and the 3 attack of the Ion Cannon with the Outrider title?

That's why I'm not convinced the HLC is the only viable option for the Outrider title. A regular ion turret on a Y-Wing of HWK costs 5. You'd be paying 3 points in comparison to extend its range by 50%, consistently setting up movement predictions for your finishers.

That's why I'm not convinced the HLC is the only viable option for the Outrider title. A regular ion turret on a Y-Wing of HWK costs 5. You'd be paying 3 points in comparison to extend its range by 50%, consistently setting up movement predictions for your finishers.

The problem is not the cost of the turret - it's the cost of the base ship. If you do that on Dash, you're looking at 44 points. Guess a minimal -2400 saves about 4 points, so minimally it's 40 points compared to 23 for a Gold Squadron.

You simply cannot afford to have 40-50 points of your squadron turning out a maximum of 1 damage per turn.