When is expose worth it?

By malladin.ben, in X-Wing

They need to just errata the card to not cost an action, and even then it would still be a costly option at 4 points with the defense penalty.

But superb on anything that can arc-dance.

It would still be marginal at best. If you're spending an action br/boost, that means your interceptor doesn't have a second action via PTL to either more successfully arc dodge, or focus. So while expose would boost its fire power (from 1.5 hits to 2.0)... Predator would also increase damage (to 1.94) without hampering defense if someone does manage to get a shot in... and it costs 1 point less... And Outmaneuver increases damage by ~.375... which is almost worth the same as .5 hits... So while Expose would be the best option offensively for arc dodgers if it didnt' cost an action, the point price wouldn't allow it to be competitive...

On A wings that could be a different story, but they're not as good at arc dodging.

I am wondering if Expose would work decent on the new Decimator? It already has 0 agility, so there is no draw back other than spending your action. The Rear Admiral already can change 1 eye to a crit, so if he just gets a target lock (perhaps through some other means or on a prior turn) he could unleash some fury, especially at range 1. Thoughts? Still not worth it from soaking up an action?

I think the Admiral and Col. Jendon could team up very nicely and give you a decent return on Expose. Expose with the Admiral, have Jendon pass him a TL (You'll need wpn Engi on Jendon and preferable ST-321) and let him rip up targets with 4/5 dice and a TL. You should have enough points for a flanker too.

Expose is not worth it unless you House Rule:

House Rule:

Expose: At the start of the activation phase, you may, until the end of the round, increase your primary weapon value by 1 and decrease your agility value by 2 to a minimum of 0.

House Rule

Expose: Action: Until the end of the round, increase your primary weapon value by 1 and decrease your agility value by 1. Then perform a free action.

Mathematically speaking, Focus and Target Lock have diminishing returns.

This is untrue when you consider the actual damage done, and not just the number of hits rolled.

I just did a meta-wide comparison between a variety of options. The attacker always uses the specified action/ability. The defender has focus 50% of the time. The range bins and number of defense dice on the target are meta dependant, and the final results are an average. Extra dice are given based on range bins. Normalized results are:

  • 2 base attack with focus: 1.00
  • 2 base attack with focus + TL: 1.38
  • 3 base attack (2 attack + Expose): 0.99
  • 3 base attack with focus: 1.77
  • 3 base attack with focus + TL: 2.45
  • 4 base attack (3 attack + Expose): 1.48
  • 4 base attack with focus: 2.65
  • 4 base attack with TL + focus: 3.63
  • 5 base attack (4 attack + Expose): 2.02
  • Wedge with focus: 2.31
  • Wedge with focus + TL: 3.06

TL + F increases average damage by about 38% relative to just using focus. Unless you're Wedge, then it's only around 32%. The best part is how Wedge + only focus with 3 base dice does more damage than 5 base dice.

Edit: Assumptions:

Range bins (still based on Worlds 2013 Final Match)

Range 1: 29.4%

Range 2: 45.1%

Range 3: 17.7%

Range 3 + rock: 7.8%

Attacker action economy

As defined for each case

Defender action economy

focus: 50%

no focus: 50%

Defender agility

1 agility: 30%

2 agility: 25%

3 agility: 45%

Edited by MajorJuggler

Expose is not worth it unless you House Rule:

House Rule:

Expose: At the start of the activation phase, you may, until the end of the round, increase your primary weapon value by 1 and decrease your agility value by 2 to a minimum of 0.

Mathematically speaking, Focus and Target Lock have diminishing returns.

This is untrue when you consider the actual damage done, and not just the number of hits rolled.

I just did a meta-wide comparison between a variety of options. The attacker always uses the specified action/ability. The defender has focus 50% of the time. The range bins and number of defense dice on the target are meta dependant, and the final results are an average. Extra dice are given based on range bins. Normalized results are:

  • 2 base attack with focus: 1.00
  • 2 base attack with focus + TL: 1.38
  • 3 base attack (2 attack + Expose): 0.99
  • 3 base attack with focus: 1.77
  • 3 base attack with focus + TL: 2.45
  • 4 base attack (3 attack + Expose): 1.48
  • 4 base attack with focus: 2.65
  • 4 base attack with TL + focus: 3.63
  • 5 base attack (4 attack + Expose): 2.02
  • Wedge with focus: 2.31
  • Wedge with focus + TL: 3.06

TL + F increases average damage by about 38% relative to just using focus. Unless you're Wedge, then it's only around 32%. The best part is how Wedge + only focus with 3 base dice does more damage than 5 base dice.

Expose is not worth it unless you House Rule:

House Rule:

Expose: At the start of the activation phase, you may, until the end of the round, increase your primary weapon value by 1 and decrease your agility value by 2 to a minimum of 0.

The problem with that house rule, is that it makes it decent on two ships: the Falcon and B-wing.

A-wings with 1 agility will die fast and for X-wings with 0 probably even faster. The Y doesn't have EPT, unless you go for that driod, but then its 5 points for Expose. ugh. The HWK will die fast...

It gets worse on IMP ships. The FS can take a hit, but I rather for 1 more point run a gunner or PTL and keep my 2 evades. The Tie's will die really fast without their 3 agilities... It could work on the Advance, particularly Vader... But it turns him from tanky to glassy quickly. Phantom... God no. Perhaps the Defender, but I'm not going to do it.

I honestly think losing 1 agility, taking an EPT slot, and costing 4 points is enough of a penalty.

It should be errata to: When performing an action you may choose to 'Expose' and then perform an action on your action bar. Until the end phase your attack is +1 and your agility is -1 to a minimum of 0.

That would turn it into unuseable to at least useable.

Expose does not work well on its own. As stated Target lock or focus give as good a result.
But it can work well in synergy with other cards.
How about a 5 dice attack (6 at range 1), with target lock, and focus, in a 360 degree arc?

X-W •Garven Dreis (26pts)

YT •Chewbacca (46pts)
Expose (4pts)

HWK •Jan Ors (28pts)
•Nien Nunb (1pts), •Squad Leader (2pts)

So far I have gone 2 and 0 with this list.
It is a glass hammer and requires a specific set up but it can work.

Expose is not worth it unless you House Rule:

House Rule:

Expose: At the start of the activation phase, you may, until the end of the round, increase your primary weapon value by 1 and decrease your agility value by 2 to a minimum of 0.

Mathematically speaking, Focus and Target Lock have diminishing returns.

This is untrue when you consider the actual damage done, and not just the number of hits rolled.

I just did a meta-wide comparison between a variety of options. The attacker always uses the specified action/ability. The defender has focus 50% of the time. The range bins and number of defense dice on the target are meta dependant, and the final results are an average. Extra dice are given based on range bins. Normalized results are:

  • 2 base attack with focus: 1.00
  • 2 base attack with focus + TL: 1.38
  • 3 base attack (2 attack + Expose): 0.99
  • 3 base attack with focus: 1.77
  • 3 base attack with focus + TL: 2.45
  • 4 base attack (3 attack + Expose): 1.48
  • 4 base attack with focus: 2.65
  • 4 base attack with TL + focus: 3.63
  • 5 base attack (4 attack + Expose): 2.02
  • Wedge with focus: 2.31
  • Wedge with focus + TL: 3.06

TL + F increases average damage by about 38% relative to just using focus. Unless you're Wedge, then it's only around 32%. The best part is how Wedge + only focus with 3 base dice does more damage than 5 base dice.

How is Wedge doing more than 3 damage?

I have the range 1 bin set to about 30% of the time, so he (and everyone else) gets +1 attack dice occasionally.

Expose is not worth it unless you House Rule:

House Rule:

Expose: At the start of the activation phase, you may, until the end of the round, increase your primary weapon value by 1 and decrease your agility value by 2 to a minimum of 0.

The problem with that house rule, is that it makes it decent on two ships: the Falcon and B-wing.

A-wings with 1 agility will die fast and for X-wings with 0 probably even faster. The Y doesn't have EPT, unless you go for that driod, but then its 5 points for Expose. ugh. The HWK will die fast...

It gets worse on IMP ships. The FS can take a hit, but I rather for 1 more point run a gunner or PTL and keep my 2 evades. The Tie's will die really fast without their 3 agilities... It could work on the Advance, particularly Vader... But it turns him from tanky to glassy quickly. Phantom... God no. Perhaps the Defender, but I'm not going to do it.

I honestly think losing 1 agility, taking an EPT slot, and costing 4 points is enough of a penalty.

It should be errata to: When performing an action you may choose to 'Expose' and then perform an action on your action bar. Until the end phase your attack is +1 and your agility is -1 to a minimum of 0.

That would turn it into unuseable to at least useable.

Yeah actually I like your idea better. Make it so you have to be able to perform an action in the first place, so you can't use it when blocked or stressed, but then give a free action with it. It would be interesting with some playtesting to see what people think of it. I could crunch some MathWing numbers.

House Rule:

Expose: Action: Until the end of the round, increase your primary weapon value by 1 and decrease your agility value by 1. Then perform a free action.

Edited by MajorJuggler

Why not:

Once per round, when attacking, you may increase your primary weapon value by 1 and decrease your agility by one.

Moving the decision to the combat round.

Why not:

Once per round, when attacking, you may increase your primary weapon value by 1 and decrease your agility by one.

Moving the decision to the combat round.

Because if you fire at low PS then you don't suffer the agility decrease. It has to take effect before the start of the combat phase.

Expose is not worth it unless you House Rule:

House Rule:

Expose: At the start of the activation phase, you may, until the end of the round, increase your primary weapon value by 1 and decrease your agility value by 2 to a minimum of 0.

The problem with that house rule, is that it makes it decent on two ships: the Falcon and B-wing.

A-wings with 1 agility will die fast and for X-wings with 0 probably even faster. The Y doesn't have EPT, unless you go for that driod, but then its 5 points for Expose. ugh. The HWK will die fast...

It gets worse on IMP ships. The FS can take a hit, but I rather for 1 more point run a gunner or PTL and keep my 2 evades. The Tie's will die really fast without their 3 agilities... It could work on the Advance, particularly Vader... But it turns him from tanky to glassy quickly. Phantom... God no. Perhaps the Defender, but I'm not going to do it.

I honestly think losing 1 agility, taking an EPT slot, and costing 4 points is enough of a penalty.

It should be errata to: When performing an action you may choose to 'Expose' and then perform an action on your action bar. Until the end phase your attack is +1 and your agility is -1 to a minimum of 0.

That would turn it into unuseable to at least useable.

Yeah actually I like your idea better. Make it so you have to be able to perform an action in the first place, so you can't use it when blocked or stressed, but then give a free action with it. It would be interesting with some playtesting to see what people think of it. I could crunch some MathWing numbers.

House Rule:

Expose: Action: Until the end of the round, increase your primary weapon value by 1 and decrease your agility value by 1. Then perform a free action.

Why not:

Once per round, when attacking, you may increase your primary weapon value by 1 and decrease your agility by one.

Moving the decision to the combat round.

Because if you fire at low PS then you don't suffer the agility decrease. It has to take effect before the start of the combat phase.

Point taken.

At the start of the activation phase then?

I'd like to take it away out of reach of action-inhibitors like stress because Expose, as it stands means deliberately flying in such a way that you become more vulnerable to maximize your damage output. YMMV of course. :P .

Expose is not worth it unless you House Rule:

House Rule:

Expose: At the start of the activation phase, you may, until the end of the round, increase your primary weapon value by 1 and decrease your agility value by 2 to a minimum of 0.

Mathematically speaking, Focus and Target Lock have diminishing returns.

This is untrue when you consider the actual damage done, and not just the number of hits rolled.

I just did a meta-wide comparison between a variety of options. The attacker always uses the specified action/ability. The defender has focus 50% of the time. The range bins and number of defense dice on the target are meta dependant, and the final results are an average. Extra dice are given based on range bins. Normalized results are:

  • 2 base attack with focus: 1.00
  • 2 base attack with focus + TL: 1.38
  • 3 base attack (2 attack + Expose): 0.99
  • 3 base attack with focus: 1.77
  • 3 base attack with focus + TL: 2.45
  • 4 base attack (3 attack + Expose): 1.48
  • 4 base attack with focus: 2.65
  • 4 base attack with TL + focus: 3.63
  • 5 base attack (4 attack + Expose): 2.02
  • Wedge with focus: 2.31
  • Wedge with focus + TL: 3.06

TL + F increases average damage by about 38% relative to just using focus. Unless you're Wedge, then it's only around 32%. The best part is how Wedge + only focus with 3 base dice does more damage than 5 base dice.

How is Wedge doing more than 3 damage?

I'm guessing Direct Hit. Juggler is very through.

I'm guessing Direct Hit. Juggler is very through.

Why thank you! :D

It actually wasn't considering criticals this time - just the added damage from being at range 1 occasionally. I should have spelled everything out, here it is:

Range bins (still based on Worlds 2013 Final Match)

Range 1: 29.4%

Range 2: 45.1%

Range 3: 17.7%

Range 3 + rock: 7.8%

Attacker action economy

As defined for each case

Defender action economy

focus: 50%

no focus: 50%

Defender agility

1 agility: 30%

2 agility: 25%

3 agility: 45%

Edited by MajorJuggler

So, the interesting thing about House-Ruling Expose so you keep your action, is that it makes Expose sightly better than PtL for damage output. Which is a good thing! But it still costs 1 more point, is less versatile, and, well, exposes you. :P

So looking at the above numbers again, lets compare PtL vs Expose:
  • 2 base attack with focus + TL: 1.38 <--- PtL on 2 dice
  • 3 base attack with focus: 1.77 <--- Expose on 2 dice
  • 3 base attack with focus + TL: 2.45 <--- PtL on 3 dice
  • 4 base attack with focus: 2.65 <-- Expose on 3 dice
Expose isn't even that much better. It's nice on 2 dice ships, but at 4 points the ship would need to cost a ton to justify absorbing that cost. I'm thinking the YT-2400 would be the ideal candidate. Corran could also see benefit on turns that he attacks twice per turn. It could also benefit ships that don't have Target Lock as an action, so PtL for F+TL isn't even an option. Looking at those:
  • TIE Fighter (too expensive to put on such cheap ships)
  • TIE Interceptor (need PtL to avoid becoming space debris)
  • TIE Phantom (already a hyper glass cannon, the Darwin award goes to anyone who does this :P )

So, it's official, I'm going to house-rule Expose to let you keep your action for my games!

Edited by MajorJuggler

Expose isn't too bad if another ship is handing you a focus token, target lock or both.

Expose isn't too bad if another ship is handing you a focus token, target lock or both.

Yes, but lots of things are good when you get free actions - so there is still an opportunity cost associated with that. Generally the value of another action is 3, so you would certainly hope that Expose (4 points) + Action passing (value 3 points) = 7 points will outperform Push the Limit (3 points)

Edit: that's kind of like saying Heavy Laser Cannon (7 points) is better than Ion Cannon (3 points).

Edited by MajorJuggler

Simple answer: Expose is never worth the cost of four points and taking your elite slot.

hm expose should be used on guys with high PS cause they fire first and that guy who is using that expose thing should be a flanker maybe a ps 4 or even 6 generic tie interceptor flanker with expose. or soontir fell who is at range 1 behind the enemies ship. but i really think the best use for expose is with darth vader allowing him to do 2 actwions focus+ expose. or marksmanship+focus.

Have I used it? Yes.

On a Black Squadron TIE fighter in a combined Black Squadron force (Mithel, Curse and Backstabber plus two generic wingmen, all in stealth TIEs)

It works okay. As noted, it's only really something I'd use when I have no return fire incoming.

The biggest problem - I can see situations where an extra dice is good. As in, better than just an increased odds of rolling damage on normal dice. Whenever a 2d attack fires at a 3+d defence, you really need the extra die, because only if you roll your maximum have you really got any chance of damaging. But, if I was going to do that, I'd take Opportunist nine times out of ten. Because I still get the extra die plus my action, or get it if I don't get an action, it doesn't screw up my defence if I am forced to joust, and it works with secondary weapons if I have any.

expose is worth it on any character that allows you to reroll dice, seriously, lets say I made a 100 pt list, Han Solo in the falcon, Chewbacca, and Luke were on the ship, I gave han expose for a skill, and for funzies pursuit blasters, then as a backup Jan Ores in a moldy crow with a rebel operative and a blaster turret. jan gives one friendly an extra attack die.

my first opponent for this setup used 4 tie bombers, I literally killed 1 bomber per turn, at range 1 solo rolled 6 dice, and didn't matter if the bombers had tokens on them, that's the flaw with opportunist. with luke on the ship your 3rd reroll will have a slight marksman ability. its all about the combos guys, figuring out how to make the cards work.

take jek porkins, his card looks kinda dumb until you give him his astromech, r5-d8 I believe. now he isn't so dumb