Still worse than focus.

You're saying 4 "raw" dice is worse than rolling 3 dice with a focus? Is there some math that supports this?

Yes. There's a couple ways you could probably look at it, but four unmodified reds have an expected yield of 2 hits, whereas three with a focus yield 2.25.

Yep. The math is thus:

An unmodified attack die has a 1/2 chance of hitting. So 4x1/2=2.

A focused attack die has 6/8 chance of hitting. So 3x6/8=18/8 (or 2.25)

While true and I believe Expose is generally a plain ol' bad upgrade to take, we're not being entirely fair. A focus gives better odds of producing a hit compared to Expose. However, Expose gives an opportunity for higher damage.

Still worse than focus.

You're saying 4 "raw" dice is worse than rolling 3 dice with a focus? Is there some math that supports this?

Yes. There's a couple ways you could probably look at it, but four unmodified reds have an expected yield of 2 hits, whereas three with a focus yield 2.25.

Yep. The math is thus:

An unmodified attack die has a 1/2 chance of hitting. So 4x1/2=2.

A focused attack die has 6/8 chance of hitting. So 3x6/8=18/8 (or 2.25)

While true and I believe Expose is generally a plain ol' bad upgrade to take, we're not being entirely fair. A focus gives better odds of producing a hit compared to Expose. However, Expose gives an opportunity for higher damage.

I think the Decimator is gorgeous and I can't wait to get one or three depending on the playability and tactics. It is a must buy for sure. I don't care for the poor man's falcon but I never played Shadows of the Empire.

I agree with the OP. I was disappointed, especially by the Decimator. The idea of this whole wave is growing on me a little, but it seems to take away from the calling card of the game. I'm sorry but a ship with 0 agility just doesn't lend itself to exciting dog fighting, which is supposed to be what the game is about. The only way I can get excited for this wave is to imagine playing in a slightly different way, emphasizing the increased modifications/customization (which in my normal games I don't do too much of), and probably making my own missions. But if I want a classic Star Wars dogfight, these new ships will definitely not be involved.

I agree however even during world war 2 they had big b52 bombers which are pretty much the same thing. They were not dogfighters by any means but we're still around because they filled a particular role. The decimator as stated by others will be a big tank and while it won't be very maneuverable it will still fit in quite nicely with some escorts. May not be fun for you to fly but it brings a long overdue imperial turret to the battlefield.

No B52's involved in WW2......

The B-29 Superfortress on the other hand certainly...

B17 and B24 were the main long range bombers. B29 mostly missed the party, though I guess it did drop the bomb on Japan.

I think the decimatior will get eaten up in epic play. It will give turbo lasers something to shoot at.

I might be wrong as I'm new, but is the gap in release times between Wave 4 and 5 not shorter than before?

Yes quite a bit so. Considering Wave 5 was announced before Wave 4 is even in stores yet.

Wave 1 was released in Sept 2012, wave 2 was announced November 2012.

Wave 2 was released Feb 2013, wave 3 was announced May 2013.

Wave 3 was released Sept 2013, wave 4 was announced Feb 2013

So it was 2 months between wave 1 and 2 being announced, 3 months between 2 and 3 being announced, and then 5 months between 3 and wave 4 being announced.

So having wave 5 announced before 4 is even in stores is a massive increase.

Does that suggest that they're rushing production in order to strike while the iron is hot? If so, are there costs to that rush? Are they thinking through their expansions less than they were before, because the market will generally buy (enough of) anything they put out, regardless of quality?

What is the time limit on their SW license? If they fear it will be too expensive come renewal time, or they know/suspect that Disney will not renew, might they they not be planning for the long haul (ie. having to consider long-term quality and integrity of the game as a whole)?

I think the decimatior will get eaten up in epic play. It will give turbo lasers something to shoot at.

Just tuck it in behind those giant engines and give it a fighter wing to keep rebel scum off of it as much as possible.

Why wouldn't Disney let them renew? X-Wing has been their most successful game so far and surely Disney is getting a cut of that profit FFG is generating!

It works, its good, people like it, it's Star Wars, and it sells well. Unless Disney had some in-house board game company that makes games for kids who are older than 5 years old, it would be foolish to take the license away from Fantasy Flight while they're doing so well with BOTH X-Wing and the LCG.

I think the Decimator is gorgeous and I can't wait to get one or three depending on the playability and tactics. It is a must buy for sure. I don't care for the poor man's falcon but I never played Shadows of the Empire.

BUT THEY COST $30 EACH!!!!!!

Say the complainers!

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Ah Sha-Dup...Tourist.

Still worse than focus.

You're saying 4 "raw" dice is worse than rolling 3 dice with a focus? Is there some math that supports this?

Yes. There's a couple ways you could probably look at it, but four unmodified reds have an expected yield of 2 hits, whereas three with a focus yield 2.25.

Yep. The math is thus:

An unmodified attack die has a 1/2 chance of hitting. So 4x1/2=2.

A focused attack die has 6/8 chance of hitting. So 3x6/8=18/8 (or 2.25)

While true and I believe Expose is generally a plain ol' bad upgrade to take, we're not being entirely fair. A focus gives better odds of producing a hit compared to Expose. However, Expose gives an opportunity for higher damage.

Added variance that decreases the average is not, in any way, a good thing in a tactics game. Being able to deal 4 damage 6.25% of the time does not justify the increase.(And yes, that is how often you will roll 4 hits on an unmodified attack with Expose.

Pro tip: Use Opportunist.

Why wouldn't Disney let them renew? X-Wing has been their most successful game so far and surely Disney is getting a cut of that profit FFG is generating!

It works, its good, people like it, it's Star Wars, and it sells well. Unless Disney had some in-house board game company that makes games for kids who are older than 5 years old, it would be foolish to take the license away from Fantasy Flight while they're doing so well with BOTH X-Wing and the LCG.

I have no idea why they wouldn't want to renew, but that may not mean that there isn't a reason.

Does anybody know something about the way that Disney does business that they'd like to share? How much control do they like to have over their IPs? How often do they outsource product lines (or allow outsourced product lines to continue)?

Also, what are the terms of the license? Is it a percentage share of profit, is it a flat fee, or some combination of these two?

Does that suggest that they're rushing production in order to strike while the iron is hot?

Only FFG can answer those questions. But based on what we've seen so far, there doesn't seem to be any sort of reduction in quality or balance.

Maybe they just had those 2 ships ready now and wanted to get them out sooner rather then wait until they had more small ships. Maybe they're going to start doing 2 ship waves...

No B52's involved in WW2......

The B-29 Superfortress on the other hand certainly...

I was thinking of the b-29 my bad. Basically a bigger aircraft with lots of gun emplacements and less manueverable than a traditional fighter.

Once upon a time Disney tended to charge a lot to license stuff from them, there was a comic book that I wanted to continue that couldn't because Disney upped the license fee after it did well. Disney has gotten a bit cooler and more laid back since then though.

I really don't think Disney is going to be THAT hands on with LFL's licensing. LFL has handled it's licensing in a very good business way before the purchase, I don't see Disney opposing to how they operate, other than bringing what they can into the Disney megacorp family. Which I'm not too worried about at the moment.

Only FFG can answer those questions. But based on what we've seen so far, there doesn't seem to be any sort of reduction in quality or balance.

Fair enough.

But there are tea leaves, and tea leaves demand to be read.

Maybe they just had those 2 ships ready now and wanted to get them out sooner rather then wait until they had more small ships. Maybe they're going to start doing 2 ship waves...

Is there a door #3?

It seems to me that the whole notion of a 'wave' has become a little obsolete. Sure, we has Wave 1, 2, and 3, but then there was Imperial Aces, the GR-75, the C-90, Rebel Aces on the way still. Wave 4 is on tha Mutha-F...ing B... etc.

And , "Wave 5" is either just two, or is anounced in a staggered way. If it is announced in a staggered way, or includes only 2 ships, is it really a "wave"?

Still worse than focus.

You're saying 4 "raw" dice is worse than rolling 3 dice with a focus? Is there some math that supports this?

Yes.

Edit: see here:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/108727-when-is-expose-worth-it/?p=1123321

I really don't think Disney is going to be THAT hands on with LFL's licensing. LFL has handled it's licensing in a very good business way before the purchase, I don't see Disney opposing to how they operate, other than bringing what they can into the Disney megacorp family. Which I'm not too worried about at the moment.

True, and LFL still exists. Just because it's been bought up by Disney doesn't (necessarily) mean that Disney is going to force LFL to change its corporate culture.

So, what do we know about LFL's corporate culture? How much of it was dangling on George Lucas, or was he (as it seems to me) just an absentee landlord?

Hi all,

While I am glad to see wave five announced, I have to admit, I am not blown away.

I think both ships are a bit unattractive (especially the imperial ship... I hate the front end, that I guess is supposed to be a little tie-fighter?) and I have to say, I have little interest in big ships... I just don't find them as much fun to fly, especially with two turret ships involved. That, plus a lack of small ships, leaves me a little meh about wave five.

Anyone else a little meh about them? I'd be more interested in a y wing with a crew seat!

My intial reaction was "2 more range 3 turret ships...oh...great...".

The YT-2400 has grown on me - but only because I think it's more interesting than the Falcon (though I like the ORS). It's probably fair that the imperials have a range 3 turret, but I simply can't get excited by it. Plus it's horrible to look at.

Well, GW have started doing smaller releases but more often, presumably because it's a more effective way to separate people from their money. I expect that FFG have made a similar decision in that it's more profitable to count large ships as 2 ships for wave purposes, to avoid releasing more than the everage person can buy in one go.

If it is announced in a staggered way, or includes only 2 ships, is it really a "wave"?

I don't think there's a industry standard for Wave.

No one here really knows anything about the license agreement between LFL, FFG and Disney, so we have no way of knowing the answer to most of those questions.

If it is announced in a staggered way, or includes only 2 ships, is it really a "wave"?

I don't think there's a industry standard for Wave.

No one here really knows anything about the license agreement between LFL, FFG and Disney, so we have no way of knowing the answer to most of those questions.

Right, ergo my comment about tea leaves.

I don't mind the 2 ship wave either. There's not a lot of good stuff left to release! Most of the remaining expanded universe stuff is so generic (t-wing) or stupid (coralskippers). Slow it down so JJ Abrams can provide some sweet new material.